Now why is the guy who saying the community has been ruined by drugs bashed while the guy who promotes drug sales championed?
Maybe because the music the former makes is less interesting overall than the music made by the latter. Maybe because when the latter makes music that is not about "promoting drug sales," it sounds more sincere and compelling and less preechy and contrived than that of the former.
well taste is all subjective and what sounds good to one ear may not sound good to another. so "interesting" is something that can be debated. However you do raise a good point with it sounding more sincere and compelling although I've never thought of anything Cam'ron said as sincere as much as it being so exageratted that it can fall under entertaining.
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
contradicting yourself then pushing your on someone else...
3faced
the many faces of Guzzo.
I've tried ignoring you cause I'm not down with internet crushes but your pretty set on making yourself heard. Why don't you elaborate on your little jabs there and explain yourself.
I mean, has there really been a "historically important" hiphop album released since "Straight Outta Compton"?
Upon further review and discussion w/ the lunchtime crew, I'd say yeah, that wasn't a well-thought out statement by me.
the Chronic 36 Chambers
At the very least, these two were "game changers".
I see Guzzo diverted the attention away from those who'd assail my POV. 'Dats cool, I'm not too into the contentious aspects of this board anyway.
I'd only say that a) Southern HipHop is my shit, and elsewise mad-polarizing outside of the South (with the majority being on the "hatter" side and b) I think some of the "fringe" elements of hiphop, from the PBs to the Jukies to even anticon (which really probably falls into the "not even worth mentioning" category on here) are perhaps overly dismissed as "footnotes" by many posters. Of course, if SoundScan units are the sole measure of success for debaters herein, perhaps that is the case.
One well-known conscious rapper grew up with money, private school, good family, home, etc. I knew him and worked for his dad in college.
Who yuh a chat bout?
If I was gonna blow up this dude's spot I would've said his name. Nobody on this site deserves or needs to know who it is, and who it is does not change the nature of the argument.
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
This is a good example of why you probably shouldn't talk much about rap music. Can you explain this analogy?
Cam'ron is a parody just like most Leslie Neilsen movies
Is that what he is to you?
does he mean more than that to you? Am I supposed ot take the words he said in Purple Haze or his buffoonery on Bill O'Reilly as something deeper? Is his fuzzy pink AKA clown style of dress supposed to stand for something deeper?
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
This is a good example of why you probably shouldn't talk much about rap music. Can you explain this analogy?
Cam'ron is a parody just like most Leslie Neilsen movies
Is that what he is to you?
does he mean more than that to you? Am I supposed ot take the words he said in Purple Haze or his buffoonery on Bill O'Reilly as something deeper? Is his fuzzy pink AKA clown style of dress supposed to stand for something deeper?
dudes a character
To me, he is an artist. I think Purple Haze is a great piece of music. And I think your characterization of him is suspect.
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
This is a good example of why you probably shouldn't talk much about rap music. Can you explain this analogy?
Cam'ron is a parody just like most Leslie Neilsen movies
Is that what he is to you?
does he mean more than that to you? Am I supposed ot take the words he said in Purple Haze or his buffoonery on Bill O'Reilly as something deeper? Is his fuzzy pink AKA clown style of dress supposed to stand for something deeper?
dudes a character
To me, he is an artist. I think Purple Haze is a great piece of music. And I think your characterization of him is suspect.
Vanilla Ice is an artist too. I never said Purple Haze wasn't a good piece of music, it's enjoyable the same way the Naked Gun is enjoyable as a movie.
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
This is a good example of why you probably shouldn't talk much about rap music. Can you explain this analogy?
Cam'ron is a parody just like most Leslie Neilsen movies
Is that what he is to you?
does he mean more than that to you? Am I supposed ot take the words he said in Purple Haze or his buffoonery on Bill O'Reilly as something deeper? Is his fuzzy pink AKA clown style of dress supposed to stand for something deeper?
dudes a character
To me, he is an artist. I think Purple Haze is a great piece of music. And I think your characterization of him is suspect.
Vanilla Ice is an artist too. I never said Purple Haze wasn't a good piece of music, it's enjoyable the same way the Naked Gun is enjoyable as a movie.
I should've added that I think it's a serious piece of music. Naked Gun is funny because Leslie Nielsen makes a joke that you laugh at. I don't *think* Cam'Ron is making a joke for you to laugh at.
I should've added that I think it's a serious piece of music. Naked Gun is funny because Leslie Nielsen makes a joke that you laugh at. I don't *think* Cam'Ron is making a joke for you to laugh at.
wow really? So making sketches talling mothers to abandon their kids so they can go on drug runs with rappers is supposes to be taken seriously?
Man I can enjoy that cause I can laugh at what I hope is him being a parody. If he is saying and promoting stuff like this for the audience to take seriously we've arrived back at what I was talking about before with people enjoying negative stereotyping of young black males
I should've added that I think it's a serious piece of music. Naked Gun is funny because Leslie Nielsen makes a joke that you laugh at. I don't *think* Cam'Ron is making a joke for you to laugh at.
wow really? So making sketches talling mothers to abandon their kids so they can go on drug runs with rappers is supposes to be taken seriously?
Man I can enjoy that cause I can laugh at what I hope is him being a parody. If he is saying and promoting stuff like this for the audience to take seriously we've arrived back at what I was talking about before with people enjoying negative stereotyping of young black males
I don't think the sketch in question is very serious but there is plenty of stuff on the record that is.
You sound like you want rappers to clown for you though, and that's really not a good look.
OK. My sole contribution to this thread (which is beyond the fucking pale):
One well-known conscious rapper grew up with money, private school, good family, home, etc. I knew him and worked for his dad in college.
Would you say this rapper has the same "license" or ability to talk about street shit, just because he is a "targeted minority"? I say no. I say it's actually kind of lame when i hear his records talking about street shit that he, to paraphrase Jay Z, witnessed from his folks' pad.
true not everyone should or can do it. IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
If we take a specific example, then look at Ice Cube... He was probably one of the most prolific rap lyric writers and at least partly responsible for one of the biggest street albums ever... Yet its been noted by everyone that he never really had the serious problems outside of most middle class youth.
And I concede that Archaic said he perferred, I just thought it was a weird point to bring up when its all "entertainment".
I should've added that I think it's a serious piece of music. Naked Gun is funny because Leslie Nielsen makes a joke that you laugh at. I don't *think* Cam'Ron is making a joke for you to laugh at.
wow really? So making sketches talling mothers to abandon their kids so they can go on drug runs with rappers is supposes to be taken seriously?
Man I can enjoy that cause I can laugh at what I hope is him being a parody. If he is saying and promoting stuff like this for the audience to take seriously we've arrived back at what I was talking about before with people enjoying negative stereotyping of young black males
I don't think the sketch in question is very serious but there is plenty of stuff on the record that is.
You sound like you want rappers to clown for you though, and that's really not a good look.
no, I want to be entertained though, and to me its just like movies. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something more dramatic, sometimes I want some comedy, hell once in a hwile I'll even dig a chick flick.
I own Purple Haze, I listen to it and I smile at what I percieve as some jokey, yet well delivered lyrics.
I own Black Star, I listen to it and smile at the wit I pick up in Mos Def & Talibs lyrics.
I'm not going to tell you that you perceive the music you listen to wrongly. I'm a little surprised that you take Cam'ron so seriously. I always thought you listened to it with humor in mind going back to the days you used to post up diplomat lyrics on this board.
Lets just say we get different things out of it and leave it at that
There is also a different perspective about all fo dispet out here (westcoast) than in NYC. Most people that I deal with hood or otherwise just laugh at them and shake their head.
There is also a different perspective about all fo dispet out here (westcoast) than in NYC. Most people that I deal with hood or otherwise just laugh at them and shake their head.
yeah this goes for a lot of people I know. Was it the "Hey Ma" video that had them ducking ugly girls and then out of the blue they had some one legged dude C-walking to a Tupac beat?
hard to take some dudes from NYC seriously when they are putting themselves out like that.
hard to take some dudes from NYC seriously when they are putting themselves out like that.
I don't know if you're bored or what, but you keep fishing for beef and it's really transparent.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
It ain't that simple though...like the difference between an on-the-level, out-of-state Houston rap fan and a carpetbaggeur. Either you are down with the perspective or you aren't. There, it's that simple.
I've been reading a lot of stuff coming out of New Orleans lately...currently Triksta by Nik Cohn...and I was talking to my wife last night about how by reading the first coupla chapters I was at least mildly optimistic about this British transplant actually 'getting it' when it comes to NOLA rap, only to have that optimism shattered once dude goes from a curious onlooker to yet another white man who can't keep his capitalist hands off of anything with promise. Anyway I ran down a list of the different shades of 'getting it':
1. Curious from afar. 2. Owning a few records from that place. 3. Having visited the place. 4. Having lived in the place. 5. Intimately knowing insiders from that place. 6. Obtaining an understanding of that place.
This is about as far as most folks ever get...which is always trumped by the following:
7. Being identified as of that place.
In other words, the signifiers of that place are so much a part of you, either on purpose or not, that others view you as an extension of that place.
As far as our discussion here, it backs up what I was saying earlier as far as certain artist being contrived in their I-want-to-lead-these-lowly-people posturing versus those who are merely speaking from the perspective of their actual lives.
I realize this is all over the place...and I'm not sure that it refutes the idea that you must do something to speak on it...but if nothing else it's should be some good shit to think about.
Comments
well taste is all subjective and what sounds good to one ear may not sound good to another. so "interesting" is something that can be debated. However you do raise a good point with it sounding more sincere and compelling although I've never thought of anything Cam'ron said as sincere as much as it being so exageratted that it can fall under entertaining.
Dudes kind of like a rap version of Leslie Nielsen
I think I explained myself in another thread.
You're a racist.
That is all.
Upon further review and discussion w/ the lunchtime crew, I'd say yeah, that wasn't a well-thought out statement by me.
the Chronic
36 Chambers
At the very least, these two were "game changers".
I see Guzzo diverted the attention away from those who'd assail my POV. 'Dats cool, I'm not too into the contentious aspects of this board anyway.
I'd only say that a) Southern HipHop is my shit, and elsewise mad-polarizing outside of the South (with the majority being on the "hatter" side and b) I think some of the "fringe" elements of hiphop, from the PBs to the Jukies to even anticon (which really probably falls into the "not even worth mentioning" category on here) are perhaps overly dismissed as "footnotes" by many posters. Of course, if SoundScan units are the sole measure of success for debaters herein, perhaps that is the case.
This is a good example of why you probably shouldn't talk much about rap music. Can you explain this analogy?
Who yuh a chat bout?
If I was gonna blow up this dude's spot I would've said his name. Nobody on this site deserves or needs to know who it is, and who it is does not change the nature of the argument.
Cam'ron is a parody just like most Leslie Neilsen movies
Be careful what you wish for...!
Is that what he is to you?
does he mean more than that to you? Am I supposed ot take the words he said in Purple Haze or his buffoonery on Bill O'Reilly as something deeper? Is his fuzzy pink AKA clown style of dress supposed to stand for something deeper?
dudes a character
Leslie Neilsen was on bill oreilly?!
To me, he is an artist. I think Purple Haze is a great piece of music. And I think your characterization of him is suspect.
Vanilla Ice is an artist too. I never said Purple Haze wasn't a good piece of music, it's enjoyable the same way the Naked Gun is enjoyable as a movie.
I should've added that I think it's a serious piece of music. Naked Gun is funny because Leslie Nielsen makes a joke that you laugh at. I don't *think* Cam'Ron is making a joke for you to laugh at.
wow really? So making sketches talling mothers to abandon their kids so they can go on drug runs with rappers is supposes to be taken seriously?
Man I can enjoy that cause I can laugh at what I hope is him being a parody. If he is saying and promoting stuff like this for the audience to take seriously we've arrived back at what I was talking about before with people enjoying negative stereotyping of young black males
I don't think the sketch in question is very serious but there is plenty of stuff on the record that is.
You sound like you want rappers to clown for you though, and that's really not a good look.
true not everyone should or can do it. IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
If we take a specific example, then look at Ice Cube... He was probably one of the most prolific rap lyric writers and at least partly responsible for one of the biggest street albums ever... Yet its been noted by everyone that he never really had the serious problems outside of most middle class youth.
And I concede that Archaic said he perferred, I just thought it was a weird point to bring up when its all "entertainment".
no, I want to be entertained though, and to me its just like movies. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something more dramatic, sometimes I want some comedy, hell once in a hwile I'll even dig a chick flick.
I own Purple Haze, I listen to it and I smile at what I percieve as some jokey, yet well delivered lyrics.
I own Black Star, I listen to it and smile at the wit I pick up in Mos Def & Talibs lyrics.
I'm not going to tell you that you perceive the music you listen to wrongly. I'm a little surprised that you take Cam'ron so seriously. I always thought you listened to it with humor in mind going back to the days you used to post up diplomat lyrics on this board.
Lets just say we get different things out of it and leave it at that
I'm curious: how do people define "conscious"? is a consicious rapper just political or are their other ways of being conscious artist?
peace
h
yeah this goes for a lot of people I know. Was it the "Hey Ma" video that had them ducking ugly girls and then out of the blue they had some one legged dude C-walking to a Tupac beat?
hard to take some dudes from NYC seriously when they are putting themselves out like that.
I don't know if you're bored or what, but you keep fishing for beef and it's really transparent.
It ain't that simple though...like the difference between an on-the-level, out-of-state Houston rap fan and a carpetbaggeur. Either you are down with the perspective or you aren't. There, it's that simple.
I've been reading a lot of stuff coming out of New Orleans lately...currently Triksta by Nik Cohn...and I was talking to my wife last night about how by reading the first coupla chapters I was at least mildly optimistic about this British transplant actually 'getting it' when it comes to NOLA rap, only to have that optimism shattered once dude goes from a curious onlooker to yet another white man who can't keep his capitalist hands off of anything with promise. Anyway I ran down a list of the different shades of 'getting it':
1. Curious from afar.
2. Owning a few records from that place.
3. Having visited the place.
4. Having lived in the place.
5. Intimately knowing insiders from that place.
6. Obtaining an understanding of that place.
This is about as far as most folks ever get...which is always trumped by the following:
7. Being identified as of that place.
In other words, the signifiers of that place are so much a part of you, either on purpose or not, that others view you as an extension of that place.
As far as our discussion here, it backs up what I was saying earlier as far as certain artist being contrived in their I-want-to-lead-these-lowly-people posturing versus those who are merely speaking from the perspective of their actual lives.
I realize this is all over the place...and I'm not sure that it refutes the idea that you must do something to speak on it...but if nothing else it's should be some good shit to think about.
no not fishing for beef, just saying what I and people I know had said, if anytihng I'm just cosigning with 33 on his comment.
But yes, I am bored at work
I don't see any real difference between a kid from an LA suburb pretending he knows something about banging and a kid from NYC walking in a video.
(insert J-Dogg gangster-walking .gif here)