How is the system helping them by keeping them underground and insular? If they are going to be citizens, they need to go through that channel, for their own benefit and their adopted US communities.
I'm all for it letting them get their education and whatnot on. Now to address your opinion on the system. The system doesn't always work when immigrants try to take the right steps in becoming citizens. Just cuz you apply don't mean you're "getting in." Example, I know a family who has been applying for US Citizenship for over 12 years. No criminal background, no shady dealings, just an average mexican family trying to become US citizens. 12 years?! The US just gives them some bullshit excuse each time and in good faith they reapply. That shit is wack.
Overall, I think many americans try to look for ways to "not pay" taxes, get help with things like healthcare, tuition and so on. Shit, to me - that's the american way - whether its big business or illegals or the middle class. You mean to tell me you would pay for everything if you know you could get away with it or pay a reduced amount??? Well, maybe you're a better man than me!
What exactly does the phrase "Illegal Alien" mean these days???
I don't know anything about immigration - Can you get arrested for not having a valid passport? I thought that a person in this position would be part of an underground economy - do they get social insurance numbers? How do they pay taxes or register for school?
What exactly does the phrase "Illegal Alien" mean these days???
I don't know anything about immigration - Can you get arrested for not having a valid passport? I thought that a person in this position would be part of an underground economy - do they get social insurance numbers? How do they pay taxes or register for school?
usually you would have a student visa. I'm not sure how you would attend a university and not be a legal alien otherwise
Whooa bit of a generalisation I think, contrary to a lot of american opinion the whole world isn't queing up on the border to swell your numbers...
It wasn't Everyone wants to be American. Just in...
I mean.. If the US opened up their borders, shit would get wayyyy outta control. It's well known that people use my country as a stepping stone to get into the US.
American culture is too huge globally not to atleast debate that more people around the world would like to gain entry into the US than anywhere else.
How is the system helping them by keeping them underground and insular? If they are going to be citizens, they need to go through that channel, for their own benefit and their adopted US communities.
I'm all for it letting them get their education and whatnot on. Now to address your opinion on the system. The system doesn't always work when immigrants try to take the right steps in becoming citizens. Just cuz you apply don't mean you're "getting in." Example, I know a family who has been applying for US Citizenship for over 12 years. No criminal background, no shady dealings, just an average mexican family trying to become US citizens. 12 years?! The US just gives them some bullshit excuse each time and in good faith they reapply. That shit is wack.
Overall, I think many americans try to look for ways to "not pay" taxes, get help with things like healthcare, tuition and so on. Shit, to me - that's the american way - whether its big business or illegals or the middle class. You mean to tell me you would pay for everything if you know you could get away with it or pay a reduced amount??? Well, maybe you're a better man than me!
I understand your point with people being frustrated with the proper channels of immigration in the US. My wife's family is from Trinidad, and many of her relatives who want to emigrate abroad need to go to Canada, since the US is very tough to get residency legally now, let alone citizenship, if you are from the West Indies nations that are NOT US affiliated.
But at the same time,why should the US support people(in terms of paying for tuition,etc) who are citizens of another nation? What is their country's responsibility in the cycle? We have lifelong citizens here who can't get healthcare covered and people who are the responsibilty of other nations feel they are entitled to it on the same level because they chose to come here? These are the hard questions.
Yeah, I remember reading about all those people who said they were leaving to get away. A report just came out the other day. There was never any spike comin' from the US.
But at the same time,why should the US support people(in terms of paying for tuition,etc) who are citizens of another nation? What is their country's responsibility in the cycle? We have lifelong citizens here who can't get healthcare covered and people who are the responsibilty of other nations feel they are entitled to it on the same level because they chose to come here? These are the hard questions.
What you point out is very important but it's not mutually exclusive. It shouldn't be an either/or. America SHOULD make sure its citizens have their needs met but illegal immigration could be at ZERO and I'd guarantee that there still wouldn't be universal health care in the U.S. It's a red herring to claim that immigrants are taking up resources that'd otherwise go to citizens: sure, a swelling population is a burden on EVERYONE but cutting out immigration doesn't actually mean that the remainder of the population gets an equal distribution of what resources are left.
Moreover, this whole idea of "citizenship" might hold political weight but think about citizenship in terms of economics. If the labor of people in the rest of the world - via manufacturing, agriculture (increasingly service sector work) - benefits our lifestyles here in America through cheaper goods and services (not to mention all the bank companies make off of cheap, overseas labor), who's actually contributing more to the "American way of life"?
I don't open borders are the answer since American resource management (especially environmentaly speaking) is already shitty enough without having to deal with a rapidly inflating population that isn't being managed on a basic infrastructure level. But I really think people's xenophobia has much more to do with paranoia over bullshit "us" vs. "them" mentalities than the actual cost of immigration on America. If you want to free up some money, maybe start by deading that $250,000,000 "bridge to nowhere" in Alaska. Or force Wal-Mart to actually pay their employees fairly.
Yeah, I remember reading about all those people who said they were leaving to get away. A report just came out the other day. There was never any spike comin' from the US.
You can add my step-mom to the list. She grew up in Palo Alto, CA and now lives in Mexico. Told me she got tired of the baseball & hot dog mentality.
US citizens get the hook up in countries with nationalized healthcare. For example, a few years ago my girl needed new birth control while we were in the UK for a longer time. She got her exact prescription at the local health centRE and we asked about cost, and the nurse said, Oh never mind, I think we have some sort of agreement with the US". Probably the paperwork wasn't worth it. Try that the other way round! Same goes for all the young american backpackers and exchange students who get hospitalized for whatever reason...
As Keb would say: Yee Dinnae How Looky Yeearrrree!
Comments
I'm all for it letting them get their education and whatnot on. Now to address your opinion on the system. The system doesn't always work when immigrants try to take the right steps in becoming citizens. Just cuz you apply don't mean you're "getting in." Example, I know a family who has been applying for US Citizenship for over 12 years. No criminal background, no shady dealings, just an average mexican family trying to become US citizens. 12 years?! The US just gives them some bullshit excuse each time and in good faith they reapply. That shit is wack.
Overall, I think many americans try to look for ways to "not pay" taxes, get help with things like healthcare, tuition and so on. Shit, to me - that's the american way - whether its big business or illegals or the middle class. You mean to tell me you would pay for everything if you know you could get away with it or pay a reduced amount??? Well, maybe you're a better man than me!
I don't know anything about immigration - Can you get arrested for not having a valid passport? I thought that a person in this position would be part of an underground economy - do they get social insurance numbers? How do they pay taxes or register for school?
usually you would have a student visa. I'm not sure how you would attend a university and not be a legal alien otherwise
Whooa bit of a generalisation I think, contrary to a lot of american opinion the whole world isn't queing up on the border to swell your numbers...
It wasn't Everyone wants to be American. Just in...
I mean.. If the US opened up their borders, shit would get wayyyy outta control. It's well known that people use my country as a stepping stone to get into the US.
American culture is too huge globally not to atleast debate that more people around the world would like to gain entry into the US than anywhere else.
Yeah...everyone except for about 44% of Americans
I understand your point with people being frustrated with the proper channels of immigration in the US. My wife's family is from Trinidad, and many of her relatives who want to emigrate abroad need to go to Canada, since the US is very tough to get residency legally now, let alone citizenship, if you are from the West Indies nations that are NOT US affiliated.
But at the same time,why should the US support people(in terms of paying for tuition,etc) who are citizens of another nation? What is their country's responsibility in the cycle? We have lifelong citizens here who can't get healthcare covered and people who are the responsibilty of other nations feel they are entitled to it on the same level because they chose to come here? These are the hard questions.
I was exhagerating with a bit of sarcasm for dramatic effect. Wake up y'all.
Yeah, I remember reading about all those people who said they were leaving to get away. A report just came out the other day. There was never any spike comin' from the US.
What you point out is very important but it's not mutually exclusive. It shouldn't be an either/or. America SHOULD make sure its citizens have their needs met but illegal immigration could be at ZERO and I'd guarantee that there still wouldn't be universal health care in the U.S. It's a red herring to claim that immigrants are taking up resources that'd otherwise go to citizens: sure, a swelling population is a burden on EVERYONE but cutting out immigration doesn't actually mean that the remainder of the population gets an equal distribution of what resources are left.
Moreover, this whole idea of "citizenship" might hold political weight but think about citizenship in terms of economics. If the labor of people in the rest of the world - via manufacturing, agriculture (increasingly service sector work) - benefits our lifestyles here in America through cheaper goods and services (not to mention all the bank companies make off of cheap, overseas labor), who's actually contributing more to the "American way of life"?
I don't open borders are the answer since American resource management (especially environmentaly speaking) is already shitty enough without having to deal with a rapidly inflating population that isn't being managed on a basic infrastructure level. But I really think people's xenophobia has much more to do with paranoia over bullshit "us" vs. "them" mentalities than the actual cost of immigration on America. If you want to free up some money, maybe start by deading that $250,000,000 "bridge to nowhere" in Alaska. Or force Wal-Mart to actually pay their employees fairly.
You can add my step-mom to the list. She grew up in Palo Alto, CA and now lives in Mexico. Told me she got tired of the baseball & hot dog mentality.
Probably the paperwork wasn't worth it. Try that the other way round! Same goes for all the young american backpackers and exchange students who get hospitalized for whatever reason...
As Keb would say: Yee Dinnae How Looky Yeearrrree!