The ECM Sound -- Discussion in two Parts
Sun_Fortune
1,374 Posts
1. I was talking to my Pops yesterday about the Keith Jarret box set on ECM that I finally picked up, and his comments were that "ECM had the best sound recording and engineering. I'd never heard recorded sound like that before ECM." Personally, I 've always found the ECM sound to be harsh and too treblelly (too much treble.) Even all those records that are supposed to be warm, leave me cold. Thoughts, coments??2. After a next level lesson by the one who goes by Hc***k who doesn't buy ECM because he is a "jazz snob," I've been rethinking my stance on ECM's catalogue. It's easy to assume they are on some next level shit based on their far out desings, Terje Rypdal, various memebers of the Bitches Brew gang, solo concept albums etc. But, was ECM faking the funk? Was their music high-end/avante jazz or just high-end/avante NewAge? Or something different altogether. (Please omit Stanely Cowell from this discussion, unless you wanna take a shot at him.) Thoughts, comments??
Comments
ECM and this concept do not mix.
I have grown weary of a gong, pan pipe, harp and soprano sax quartet.
Just say no to ECM!
Yeah, seriously, ECM ain't funky, but I like a few rekkids on the label. 'Like' is the operrative word though - it's a label that could not exist and also not adversely effect my existence, if you know what i mean.
I like alot of ECM records, though I've yet to find a particularly funky one. Some of the Jan Garbarek stuff is nice and deep, and I have alot of time for keith jarrett (bar the whining)
On the recording tip, I heard that Manfred Eicher (or whatever the label owner guy is called) always puts a couple of seconds of silence at the start of each ecm cd to mimic the vinyl experience. Could be bullshit though
~J
Pat Metheney New Chataqua
Keeny Wheeler Gnu High
Eberhard Webber Silent Feet
Pat Metheney Album
Keith Jarrett Koln Concert
Keith Jarrett Facing You
Chick Corea Return to Forever ( and incredible album )!
No there is no funk on ECM. Who cares. I am not saying it is the greatest label ever and the sound quality is designed for a modern era. it is tin if you do not flatten out the bass and treb.
i like ECM quite a bit. Always have.
ap
That's funny cause I was gonna say that a lot of the tonal work on this label sounds to me like some of the new laid back downtempo stuff, with people going back to analog modules and all that...
Good early record from ECM - Dave Holland and Barre Phillips playing bass duets.
Live concert by Ralph Towner on solo 12 string, classical, etc. guitar. really nice...
Cowell's "Illusion Suite" & Kenyatta's "Girl from sumthinsumthin"
I listen to both in painful scrutiny, trying to find fault, but could not...
The Abercrombie & fitsch "timeless" joint is OK too
1) I remember back in the days, that ECM was considered the pinacal of sound. The German pressings were supposed to be the best in the world. I don't have an opinion on that, but I think there records demostrate a wider dynamic range than most pop records.
I've always had a strong dislike for Keith Jarret, who was releasing a record a week of self proclaimed solo genius back in the late 70s. When Windham Hill hit, it was clear that ECM had paved the way.
2) On the other hand, there is lots of good music on ECM. They do not have one sound. I like that Om with Dom Um Romao.
Dan
this is dope.
i would be surprised all of you afrocentric indie jazz freakers do not dig on this.
please don't front.
BUT I don't hate ECM. I just don't like the bevy of experimental music that sounds like crap.
Some dudes on ECM who's music I've liked include:
Ralph Towner
Gary Burton
Dave Liebman
Stanley Cowell-Illusion Suite
and some Jan Garbarek.
I just don't like how a lot of em also either
A) don't have a drum beat behind it
B) don't have a piano
C) missing other essential part of a quartet
Peace
T.N.
Also El Corazon from Don Cherry and Ed Blackwell.
And Conference Of Birds by Dave Holland. HUGE record. Check it out.
I think ECM is DEFINETLY a "hit or miss" record label.
I think thats becasue they let artists do whatever they want to, no questions asked. And sometimes, they put out really suspect work. I do a show at a radio station and we get every single ECM reelase and over the past 8+ years I've been there, maybe 2 or three realeases a year I can get into. The rest, not so much. I'd say thats about on par with most "jazz" labels these days.
That's funny to me, because I always associate ECM more with "jazz snobs" who turn their noses up at any jazz with a backbeat or covers of 70's pop tunes. Is this thread really about the validity of ECM as a jazz label? I don't think ECM was either "faking the funk" or even had "the funk" in the first place. They were in the business of recording improvised music that was pretty progressive for the time, some of which comes off to many people as stuffy or "academic" sounding. The label definitely had its own ethos: unusual instrumental combinations, an emphasis on solo performance, very sparse presentation, etc. But I'm guessing that Manfred Eicher wasn't looking to crack the pop charts.
In addition to what's been mentioned, I also like:
- both Julian Priester lp's, which are must-haves if you dig early 70's Herbie
- Dave Liebman, Drum Ode (which I personally think blows away Lookout Farm)
- Michael Naura, Vanessa (a couple funky rhodes/vibes cuts)
- Abercrombie/Holland/DeJohnette, Gateway (b-a-c-k-w-o-o-d-s--s-o-n-g)
- Steve Kuhn, Trance
and I'll cosign on
- Stanley Cowell, Illusion Suite
- Robin Kenyatta, Girl From Martinique
can't vouch for Ralph Towner's Solstice, but that one also seems to get some love.
But compared to Prestige, Blue Note, etc, ECM wasn't funky at all. Oh well. If you prefer jazz with a consistent beat (be it Jo Jones' swing or an Idris backbeat), then chances are you may not dig a lot of ECM records. But that doesn't make it any less valid as a label or as a body of music.
haha! I was really just being silly about that...
I almost made a post about ECM called "Aaron, I apologize" the other day. Now I don't gotta.
I have to admit, I have that LP and love it...but I am still keeping the yawning baby picture up, well because it is so damn cute.
like saying I don't like Atlantic after hearing some Bent Fabric lps.
WURD
My conclusions are these about ecm:
good records for sampling, although most cannot be listened through
a tad pretentious (like my post)
a few very good records
still don't like the sound
an altogether solid jazz label
That stuff is all crap. I'm sorry, but it has no sac to it.