So....Suge Knight has been charged with murder

TheForceTheForce 21 Posts
edited February 2015 in Strut Central
Let's discuss his contributions and/or detractions from the world of music.........

  Comments


  • kalakala 3,340 Posts
    let's hope he rots in jail/takes a nice long dirt nap
    the end

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,790 Posts

  • If he ends up on Death Row then everyone is going to misuse the word "irony" again.

  • There has been too much hating on Suge Knight in the last decade or two. The fact that Death Row fell apart and Dre and Snoop went on to achieve a lot of financial success definitely influenced how Dre and Snoop are portrayed as the good guys today and Suge as that evil bad guy. It even came to the point where a lot of people actually believed (many still do) that he had 2pac killed although this is both absurd and far from the truth. Unfortunately, a very biased story of Suge has been constructed and reinforced over the years because he lost influence and power.

    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    GamleOle said:
    There has been too much hating on Suge Knight in the last decade or two. The fact that Death Row fell apart and Dre and Snoop went on to achieve a lot of financial success definitely influenced how Dre and Snoop are portrayed as the good guys today and Suge as that evil bad guy. It even came to the point where a lot of people actually believed (many still do) that he had 2pac killed although this is both absurd and far from the truth. Unfortunately, a very biased story of Suge has been constructed and reinforced over the years because he lost influence and power.

    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    OK, I'll bite: What's the unbiased view of Suge?

  • GamleOle said:
    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    Sooo... Suge had Biggie killed and people are biased and ignorant if they're not cool with that?


  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    GamleOle said:
    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    Sooo... Suge had Biggie killed and people are biased and ignorant if they're not cool with that?


    Well, they did bring it on themselves

    wtf

  • DJ_Enki said:
    GamleOle said:
    There has been too much hating on Suge Knight in the last decade or two. The fact that Death Row fell apart and Dre and Snoop went on to achieve a lot of financial success definitely influenced how Dre and Snoop are portrayed as the good guys today and Suge as that evil bad guy. It even came to the point where a lot of people actually believed (many still do) that he had 2pac killed although this is both absurd and far from the truth. Unfortunately, a very biased story of Suge has been constructed and reinforced over the years because he lost influence and power.

    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    OK, I'll bite: What's the unbiased view of Suge?

    I wouldn’t say that Suge hasn’t done anything wrong, or that it’s unfair to be critical of him, but I think the negative views have become too much over the years and led to an inaccurate or biased story that favor people like Dre, Snoop, Puffy etc. and prevent them from looking bad.

    He is often portrayed as if he is just evil and sadistic. That’s why so many people love to hate him, and that’s why a lot of people were willing to believe the far-fetched theory by Russell Poole that suggested that Suge had 2pac killed. Suge has definitely had people killed (at least Biggie, and maybe more), but he would never stab someone from his own team in the back like that for financial gains. When people start to believe that Suge would stab one of his own in the back like that, or that he is after Dre, Puffy etc. simply because he is sadistic and enjoys bullying, that’s when I say the story has become biased and inaccurate. Suge is pretty simple: He is totally dedicated to the street code, and honor, loyalty and respect mean everything to him. There may be several factors why he got mad at people like Dre and Snoop, but one of them is probably that they put their tail behind their legs and ran off without having the balls to sit down and face him first. I’m not saying that everyone should like Suge, but I think a lot of people need to adjust their views of him.

    I also think that he often doesn’t get the respect he deserves because it has become too common to leave out the positive stories about him. Sure he didn’t make music, but he created the conditions for everything. I doubt a lot of these artists would have evolved the way they did if they had been on another label. It was kind of a unique thing to build a label comprised almost entirely of people who were straight off the streets and to have bloods and crips get together the way they did.

  • Just when you thought it was safe...

  • Horseleech said:
    GamleOle said:
    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    Sooo... Suge had Biggie killed and people are biased and ignorant if they're not cool with that?


    I like Biggie a lot. It’s very unfortunate that he is dead, and I would definitely have preferred that Biggie was alive. But when you start to consider what Biggie did, and what he involved himself in, then it was inevitable that Suge had to retaliate and take out someone from the Bad Boy camp (especially Biggie).

    Number one mistake Biggie and Puffy did was to team up with the South Side Compton Crips when the beef between DR and BB popped off. Of all the Crips sets in LA, they had to team up with the one set that was beefing with Mob Piru (where Suge is from). It was already a problem when one of Puffy’s associates had killed one of Suge’s homies (Jake Robles aka Big Jake from Campanella Park bloods) in Atlanta, but when they started using South Side Crips as protection during the beef and thereby, actively took sides in another gang feud, things became even more serious. But it also seems that Bad Boy didn’t only use South Side Crips for protection. It also seems that they actually used them to attack Death Row. One story that has been documented by a lot of people now is the one about Bad Boy putting up a bounty for Death Row chains which eventually led Orlando Anderson (2pac’s killer) to snatch a Death Row chain from a death row associate who was a Mob Piru. Who knows what else went down, but when Biggie and Puffy started directing members from one gang (South Side Crips) to assault members from another rival gang (Mob Piru and other bloods), they decided to play a certain game, and if you look at it in this light, then it’s hard to blame Suge for retaliating within the rules of that game.

    But what was even worse is that Puffy or Biggie have likely offered South Side Crips money to kill Suge (and probably 2pac). According to Chuck Phillip’s article in the LA times, it was Biggie who offered the crips 1 million to kill 2pac. No matter what happened, it seems that this was word in the streets, and that’s probably why Biggie was killed. According to Greg Kading (former detective on the case), it was Puffy who offered the 1 million although word in the street was that it was Biggie. Anyways, the fact remains that 2pac’s killer (Orlando Anderson) was a South Side Crip and had a relationship to Biggie and Puffy. There is great reason to believe that Biggie and Puffy somehow asked Orlando Anderson and his friends to take care of 2pac, and there is even greater reason to believe that this is what Suge speculated or held them accountable for.

    If this isn’t enough to convince you that Biggie was not completely innocent, then look at how Puffy and Biggie returned to LA after 2pac’s Death and taunted and disrespected Suge AND 2pac (even after his death). “Long Kiss Goodnight” was very disrespectful. Although Puffy denies it, it is certainly a diss. It is actually ridiculous that his denial has been accepted to this day. You might have watched how Biggie appeared in interviews and told how he was upset about 2pac’s death, but that was absolutely bullshit. It is clear that Biggie put out some extremely disrespectful tracks about 2pac after he has passed, and it also seems that Biggie not only put them out after 2pac’s death but also recorded them after 2pac’s death. It was not wise of Biggie and Puffy to take their little trip to LA where Biggie was on the wake up show, saying how he was sad about 2pac’s death, but then when he starts to freestyle, he drops some pretty disrespectful lines about Pac.
    There are a lot of subliminal disses aimed at 2pac and Suge on “Life After Death”. Supposedly, some Death Row people had threatened Bad Boy that if they ever returned to LA, blood would spill, and then Biggie makes “Going Back 2 Cali” as a response.

    I don't view anyone as good or bad in that beef. They all willingly got into some street shit, and it's just unfortunate that 2pac and Biggie had to die. When Suge had Biggie killed, it was his loyalty toward 2pac that prompted him to do so.



    Suge then put out this one.


  • Rockadelic said:
    Horseleech said:
    GamleOle said:
    And when people hate on Suge for having Biggie killed, that’s because they are both ignorant and biased. Bigge and Puffy brought it on themselves. I think people would have hated even more on Suge if he had not tried to revenge 2pac's death. It was just a shame that it was Biggie – and not Puffy – who had to pay the price.

    Sooo... Suge had Biggie killed and people are biased and ignorant if they're not cool with that?


    Well, they did bring it on themselves

    wtf

    I also think it’s a big misconception when people fall into the trap of assuming that Biggie was a fairly nice guy who just had a brief career as a drug dealer. He wasn’t a big time gangster, and although he only did have a relatively short career as a drug dealer because he became a rapper, he definitely embraced that gangster mentality pretty hard. Just look at the people he was rolling with. Puffy kept repeating “Bad Boys move in silence”, and that was Biggie and Puffy’s strategy. They would act all innocent in interviews, but behind the scenes, they were taking part in the beef, and on tracks, they would submit subliminal disses that they would deny were disses, but everyone else was able to figure out that they were.

    “Long Kiss Goodnight” is absolutely about 2pac, and it’s probably the most disrespectful of them all. The track was obviously released several months after 2pac died, but it was probably also written and recorded after 2pac died. He talks about the 1994 Quad shooting where “his men” (Jimmy Henchmen etc.) robbed and shot 2pac:

    “When my men bust, you just move with such stamina Slugs missed ya, I ain't mad at cha (we ain't mad at cha)”

    He talks about how 2pac was shot in the balls during the 1994 Quad robbery:

    ”Guard ya shit, 'fore I stick you, for your re-up/Wipe the pee up, lick shots, woke your seed up”

    It was difficult for me to believe that Biggie would diss 2pac so hard even after 2pac’s death, but after I have studied different interviews and other stuff, I have no doubt in my mind that he was dissing 2pac.

    One part of the song that I still almost can’t believe is this one:

    “Look what you made me do, brains blew/My team in the marine-blue, six Coupe/Skied it out, weeded out, cleanin' out -- the block/For distances, givin' long kisses BITCH!”

    He is basically talking about how Orlando killed 2pac. “Team in the marine-blue” = crips. And with ““Look what you made me do, brains blew”, Biggie is basically saying that he had a hand in 2pac’s killing. Although it’s hard to understand why Biggie would incriminate himself on record, I think there is a great possibility that Biggie is actually talking about how 2pac drove him to have the crips kill him. Here is the full song:



    Here is Biggie on the Wake Up show some days before he was killed. First, he acts like everything is cool and he was devastated about 2pac’s death, and then goes on to diss him hard in the freestyle. This was on the West Coast, and people were listening to it. I’m sure it didn’t stop their desire to get payback, and Biggie knew this well. Biggie’s intention was to diss and piss off Suge and his crew. Puffy and Biggie only made the mistake of assuming that they could go to LA, have their victory round, taunt Suge and still be safe because 2pac was dead and Suge was in jail, but it didn't really turn out as they had planned.



    Even if you are a fan of Biggie and feel that a great rapper has been lost, I think you should accept the fact that he wanted to play with Suge by the rules of the streets, and he knew very well what that entailed.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Subliminal Disses would be a good name for a band.

  • If this juvenile, Scarface-influenced horseshit is going to continue, is there some sort of newsletter I can get advance news from so I can get an edge in my Death Pools?

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,790 Posts

  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    Don't feed the trolls.
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