The "We Believe" thing is a straight rip from the 1999 Army-Navy football game
which should totally skeev harv out.
Harv, did you get equally mad uncomfortable when filming and uploading your CR videos to youtoobs?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
jlee said:
HarveyCanal said:
And I think a big thing for US soccer will be to create its own unique identity. The We Believe ish is far too cultish for me, like hanging out with Mormons or some ish. We need theme music that we can be proud of. And frankly, I don't want to hear an Irish accent when listening to US games. Let's make this shit our own already and do it with style.
I hear you on this...but I also think its a balance. Yeah, the idea that we need to drink Guinness or call each other "mate" just to watch a soccer match is ridiculous. As is the need to scream "Goooaalllll" like we are a paid sportscaster from Univision.
But, I think it is important to appreciate the more global aspects of the game, and enjoy how other countries and cultures have excelled from the way they play the game.
Countries that do not appreciate the element brought by foreign countries and players seem to stagnate. Russia historically has been loath to accept players in their own league from other countries (i'm sure its some cultural/racism component unfortunately), and they rarely have players move to other countries to play in other leagues....as a result their teams has been pretty stagnant over the years even though they are a big country, with lots of money and a passion for the game.
America would do wise to instill its own stamp on the game, but if we think that we can ignore all the other countries and what they have to offer, then I am certain it will take us longer to move to the next level.
I'm not suggesting xenophobia. We are the "melting pot" after all. But we've got to figure out a way to cultivate actual passion rather than just affirmations from people who just want to fit in. In other words, we have to look comfortable in the clothes before we can really get to prancing around in them. I don't know though. I keep trying to explain the conflict I feel when it comes to US nationalism surrounding soccer and I'm coming up more muddled than coherent in my critiques.
Common was a beast yesterday though, that's for sure.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
jdeez said:
DB_Cooper said:
The "We Believe" thing is a straight rip from the 1999 Army-Navy football game
which should totally skeev harv out.
Harv, did you get equally mad uncomfortable when filming and uploading your CR videos to youtoobs?
No, and not even sure where you are coming from on that note.
Costa Rica doesn't even have an army so my whole inclination for the world bully to tone down its chest-beating doesn't really apply to them.
Well, we have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
Common was a beast yesterday though, that's for sure.
Took me a second to get that....I've personally been referring to him as Philly Freezer. He had a great game, but damn that many saves implies that our midfield and defense were very porous (which they were) and could not hold on to the ball (which they could not).
Going forward, I am routing for Columbia as I really like their team spirit. Costa Rica have my dude Joel Campbell (who is signed to my team Arsenal, but has been on loan for 3 seasons now), so I would like to see him do very well.
Argentina have been shockingly weak given their upfront talent -- Messi is single handily getting them past each game. Not sure if he can do that for the remaining 3 though.
If I were a betting man though, Brazil or France/Germany wins the tournament. Just cuz they know how to win the damn thing, and at some point that always seems to be the deciding factor.
How about you just play/watch the game and enjoy it instead of trying to make it your own or give yourselves an identity??
Your squad (and previous squads) already gave you all the identity you need: A team that will come together, fight to the end and rise to the occasion.
Everyone knows losing is what makes you love football.
One of the most profound things I've read on here in a long minute
And true
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
badder_than_evil said:
How about you just play/watch the game and enjoy it instead of trying to make it your own or give yourselves an identity??
Your squad (and previous squads) already gave you all the identity you need: A team that will come together, fight to the end and rise to the occasion.
Yeah, that's the company line. But what I watched after redemption against Ghana was a total choke job against Portugal, an uneventful egg laid against Germany, and aside from Howard, a total defensive breakdown against Belgium. What kind of team has to depend on their goaltender in such a way? And this is exactly what I'm talking about with American fans. The same old script about gritty, team players continues even when that's not even the case on the field. While I'm not trying to throw dirt in the eye of a team that did well to advance from group play, I can't go in on the Dr. Phil back-patting for a team that systematically collapsed its way out of the tourney. I expect more...sorry.
You know, i posted it and then thought, this is my personal problem so im gonna erase it.
but i think every black, brown, asian, gay etc person knows that feeling. And i have been in tons of other countries when they get amped up around their national selection and NEVER feel that way.
How about you just play/watch the game and enjoy it instead of trying to make it your own or give yourselves an identity??
Your squad (and previous squads) already gave you all the identity you need: A team that will come together, fight to the end and rise to the occasion.
Yeah, that's the company line. But what I watched after redemption against Ghana was a total choke job against Portugal, an uneventful egg laid against Germany, and aside from Howard, a total defensive breakdown against Belgium. What kind of team has to depend on their goaltender in such a way? And this is exactly what I'm talking about with American fans. The same old script about gritty, team players continues even when that's not even the case on the field. While I'm not trying to throw dirt in the eye of a team that did well to advance from group play, I can't go in on the Dr. Phil back-patting for a team that systematically collapsed its way out of the tourney. I expect more...sorry.
This is where you lose me. I understand why you may hope for more, but to expect more suggests to me that you haven't been watching this team over the past 2+ years. Our center defense has had some serious issues for the last 2 years or so, and while the midfield has decent talent, they have had a hard time gelling all through qualifiers and friendlies.
This team actually played very near its potential, especially without Jozy, who for better or worse, was a huge part of how the team was structured.
As for the progression in this world cup: Ghana: The early goal absolutely changed the entire game plan for both teams --- US were very defensive minded, but there are serious plaudits to give for digging out that game Portugal: Sorry, but that game in totallity was really good by US. Very attack minded. And essentially that game was decided by two big fuckups by the US's defense Germany: Not sure what you expected....also, all other teams that played in Manuas the game prior failed to win....we were spent. And given the German talent, I'm surprised we only lost by 1 goal. Belgium: I tend agree... poor display by defense and midfield - but again, not a shock given how the team has played over the past 2 years.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
jlee said:
HarveyCanal said:
badder_than_evil said:
How about you just play/watch the game and enjoy it instead of trying to make it your own or give yourselves an identity??
Your squad (and previous squads) already gave you all the identity you need: A team that will come together, fight to the end and rise to the occasion.
Yeah, that's the company line. But what I watched after redemption against Ghana was a total choke job against Portugal, an uneventful egg laid against Germany, and aside from Howard, a total defensive breakdown against Belgium. What kind of team has to depend on their goaltender in such a way? And this is exactly what I'm talking about with American fans. The same old script about gritty, team players continues even when that's not even the case on the field. While I'm not trying to throw dirt in the eye of a team that did well to advance from group play, I can't go in on the Dr. Phil back-patting for a team that systematically collapsed its way out of the tourney. I expect more...sorry.
This is where you lose me. I understand why you may hope for more, but to expect more suggests to me that you haven't been watching this team over the past 2+ years. Our center defense has had some serious issues for the last 2 years or so, and while the midfield has decent talent, they have had a hard time gelling all through qualifiers and friendlies.
This team actually played very near its potential, especially without Jozy, who for better or worse, was a huge part of how the team was structured.
As for the progression in this world cup: Ghana: The early goal absolutely changed the entire game plan for both teams --- US were very defensive minded, but there are serious plaudits to give for digging out that game Portugal: Sorry, but that game in totallity was really good by US. Very attack minded. And essentially that game was decided by two big fuckups by the US's defense Germany: Not sure what you expected....also, all other teams that played in Manuas the game prior failed to win....we were spent. And given the German talent, I'm surprised we only lost by 1 goal. Belgium: I tend agree... poor display by defense and midfield - but again, not a shock given how the team has played over the past 2 years.
Please don't get me wrong. The US team pulled a coup to get out of the group of death, no doubt about it. And I don't see them as a better team than any of the current final 8...so kudos for a strong appearance. But that's it. Good job. Not oh my Lord how gritty these Tom Brady play-alikes were in their selfless dedication to the team spirit of the American work ethic, eagles flying overhead and dammit, we were the first to put a man on the moon, even MLK would be proud, I believe I can fly, blah blah blah.
There's a whole bunch of weird shit going on, but that's always everywhere USA etc. But I absolutely know what you guys are saying, and I feel it too. Not sure if I can distill the vibe out of all my other neuroses, but I'm definitely wary of too many hyped up drunk Americans. Always have been.
That said: I YOLO'd pretty hard yesterday. By the time the game as over I'd clocked in at SEVEN beers. Regional light American lager, sure, but I haven't had SEVEN beers in a long long time. Hot day in Seattle, and I was ripping around on a bike, so it was chill.
We have this weird setup here right now where soccer's pretty big. Europhile homebrewers come at it from that intellectual angle with their beards. They have convinced themselves that soccer's not just Big Money Sports. That somehow these guys aren't the same as other jocks. Full-on rationalization. Clint Dempsey has a shitty rap song and got suspended for punching a guy in the dick this season for the Sounders. A teammate was heard calling an opponent a faggot on TV last year. These are the same jocks.
But I'm cool with that. Sports are mostly real and unscripted and true. Big money on the line. I'll take that over other TV shows, right?
As for yesterday, they didn't play to win until what--100 minutes in? That frustrated me. I know they were up against at least three dudes I'd heard of (Fellaeaeainnni--I see him on bass in a Cream or Rare Earth type album cover, Kompany--rad name, Hazard--did anyone manage to pull out a "duke boys meet the real Hazzard" line anywhere?), and it's Belgium AKA land of tough man cyclists or whatever, but motherfuckers could've won that game! Wondolowski's was like I dunno not too mad at him but Dempsey bro come on dood!
Raaaaaahhhhhh!
OH YES: claims of USA's team always being so well-conditioned? They've had two or three big players out due to fitness issues this tournament. I don't buy that argument.
USA has 300000000 people. The sport's already popular enough to succeed. I'll be a nutless wonder and say that it already has succeeded. I think that putting it all on the hopes that some mega star will come out of Detroit to become the best player the world has ever seen and boom Jethro's ditching his Dale Jr ballcap for one of those scarfs...well that's not going to happen. But the shit is hot!
There's still a strange feeling though when they put in that Yedlin dude, who's from the Seattle area, who'll do empty autograph signings at the outlet malls, and he's out there trying to D up some guy who stars for fuckin Chelsea! It shows I'll buy into that silly "oh soccer is just a college boy sport in the US but it's the life and blood of these other historical blah blah blah" it's just a ball sport with six rules: shuttup with the mythology.
I've watched a lot of this World Cup and have enjoyed almost all of it. The heavy hitters look wobbly. France is young and cool. USA got further than Ingerland. Brazil actually has a dude called Hulk who may be a pussy. The raw pre-game warmups on the watchESPN are amazing: Busby Berkeley meets Baraka doods I SWEAR IT
We have this weird setup here right now where soccer's pretty big. Europhile homebrewers come at it from that intellectual angle with their beards. They have convinced themselves that soccer's not just Big Money Sports. That somehow these guys aren't the same as other jocks. Full-on rationalization. Clint Dempsey has a shitty rap song and got suspended for punching a guy in the dick this season for the Sounders. A teammate was heard calling an opponent a faggot on TV last year. These are the same jocks.
Soccer is the biggest sport in Seattle and has been for a minute (I use this stat against Seahawks fans a lot!).
But yeah I totally witnessed the same BS reationalization that you cite here re: the players being anything other than typical superstar athletes. People acting like these dudes play for free or some shit.
And for those with the "shouldn't have let them get that far" mindset, recognise Tim Howard is a great keeper, and every great team needs a great one.
Great keepers, displaying their prowess; it's what they are there for.
Many countries have GK heroes; we have Gordon Banks, Schmrichrl IS Denmark, there's Lev Yashin of Russian folklore, Pat Jennings for NI, more recently Iker C and Buffon.
Keeper heroics have been the significant motif in Brasil.
It's not the sign of failure; it's a sign of immense strength.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The only stats that matter: goals scored vs goals conceded
Shots are meh.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
skel said:
The only stats that matter: goals scored vs goals conceded
Shots are meh.
27-9 led to 2-1, despite everything Howard could muster. He coulda been full fledged Superman out there, which he pretty much was, and that 3-1 shots on goal ratio was bound to finally get the best of him and his team...which it did.
Glorious defeat with mettle shown and heroes born >>>>>>>>> boa constrictor 1-0 smash and grab a la Spain
The world loves USMNT
Only a few beard stroking intellectuals who have never met 2 pie 2 mash n liquor few beers w/ the lads rumble with the away mob recall the Spanish era with fondness; the rest of us rejoice that this WC brought back the gung ho of yesteryear.
W happen in Belo Horizonte, and will it affect my enjoyment of QF games?
Speak on it
Overpass collapsed due to shoddy construction. Shitty, but shouldn't affect the game, I don't think.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
HarveyCanal said:
skel said:
The only stats that matter: goals scored vs goals conceded
Shots are meh.
27-9 led to 2-1, despite everything Howard could muster. He coulda been full fledged Superman out there, which he pretty much was, and that 3-1 shots on goal ratio was bound to finally get the best of him and his team...which it did.
You know this though.
This isn't always the case, and that is one of the joys of football. You can have the superior possession, technique and chances all day. But if you don't assert that superiority and take those chances, or even if you have a bit of lousy luck, it can all end in misery. That final fifteen minutes of normal time could have sent the game either way.
The one thing USA really suffered from against Belgium was the lack of a proper striker and some genuinely attack-minded midfielders, which is perhaps an odd thing to say with a player like Dempsey in the side, but still. I lost count of the amount of times I saw Beasley and Yedlin go tearing down the wings into the Belgian final third and into the ideal position to deliver a cross to...nobody. The midfield was constantly behind the play, and seemed to completely lack the appetite to run into space and receive the ball in the box - if it wasn't going to come directly to their feet, they weren't going to work to get it. There was a lack of guile, too. When the likes of Bradley did get the ball, they'd try and dribble through a well-organised Belgian defence full of guys built like centers. But if you're running at defenders to get on the end of a ball coming in from out wide, there's a chance of drawing a foul and creating a scoring opportunity from a dead-ball situation. That never seemed to occur to them. There was a chance to make football history the other night and it's hugely uncharacteristic of American sportsmen not to grab such a chance with both hands.
USA's obvious commitment to the idea of playing aesthetically attractive football is admirable, but sometimes you need to forget aesthetics and focus on getting the win; an ugly one, if necessary. It's no good trying to play clever little dummies in the box like you saw Pirlo do if there's nobody running onto the ball, or hitting 30-yard passes into empty space. There's still plenty to take encouragement from, though. From '94 on, USA's made consistent, steady progress on the world stage - slow progress, admittedly, but in the right direction. No reason whatsoever to think that can't continue. Also, I've seen a few people wonder out loud if Howard will be too old for the next World Cup, and I doubt that very much. If he avoids serious injury and continues playing at the highest level, which he's more than capable of, there's absolutely no reason he can't continue well into his forties, as many top keepers often do. In fact, if I was the USA coach, I'd make him captain right now.
Comments
which should totally skeev harv out.
Harv, did you get equally mad uncomfortable when filming and uploading your CR videos to youtoobs?
I'm not suggesting xenophobia. We are the "melting pot" after all. But we've got to figure out a way to cultivate actual passion rather than just affirmations from people who just want to fit in. In other words, we have to look comfortable in the clothes before we can really get to prancing around in them. I don't know though. I keep trying to explain the conflict I feel when it comes to US nationalism surrounding soccer and I'm coming up more muddled than coherent in my critiques.
Common was a beast yesterday though, that's for sure.
No, and not even sure where you are coming from on that note.
Costa Rica doesn't even have an army so my whole inclination for the world bully to tone down its chest-beating doesn't really apply to them.
Took me a second to get that....I've personally been referring to him as Philly Freezer. He had a great game, but damn that many saves implies that our midfield and defense were very porous (which they were) and could not hold on to the ball (which they could not).
Going forward, I am routing for Columbia as I really like their team spirit. Costa Rica have my dude Joel Campbell (who is signed to my team Arsenal, but has been on loan for 3 seasons now), so I would like to see him do very well.
Argentina have been shockingly weak given their upfront talent -- Messi is single handily getting them past each game. Not sure if he can do that for the remaining 3 though.
If I were a betting man though, Brazil or France/Germany wins the tournament. Just cuz they know how to win the damn thing, and at some point that always seems to be the deciding factor.
Your squad (and previous squads) already gave you all the identity you need: A team that will come together, fight to the end and rise to the occasion.
One of the most profound things I've read on here in a long minute
And true
Yeah, that's the company line. But what I watched after redemption against Ghana was a total choke job against Portugal, an uneventful egg laid against Germany, and aside from Howard, a total defensive breakdown against Belgium. What kind of team has to depend on their goaltender in such a way? And this is exactly what I'm talking about with American fans. The same old script about gritty, team players continues even when that's not even the case on the field. While I'm not trying to throw dirt in the eye of a team that did well to advance from group play, I can't go in on the Dr. Phil back-patting for a team that systematically collapsed its way out of the tourney. I expect more...sorry.
I saw what you posted and BINGO!
but i think every black, brown, asian, gay etc person knows that feeling. And i have been in tons of other countries when they get amped up around their national selection and NEVER feel that way.
This is where you lose me. I understand why you may hope for more, but to expect more suggests to me that you haven't been watching this team over the past 2+ years. Our center defense has had some serious issues for the last 2 years or so, and while the midfield has decent talent, they have had a hard time gelling all through qualifiers and friendlies.
This team actually played very near its potential, especially without Jozy, who for better or worse, was a huge part of how the team was structured.
As for the progression in this world cup:
Ghana: The early goal absolutely changed the entire game plan for both teams --- US were very defensive minded, but there are serious plaudits to give for digging out that game
Portugal: Sorry, but that game in totallity was really good by US. Very attack minded. And essentially that game was decided by two big fuckups by the US's defense
Germany: Not sure what you expected....also, all other teams that played in Manuas the game prior failed to win....we were spent. And given the German talent, I'm surprised we only lost by 1 goal.
Belgium: I tend agree... poor display by defense and midfield - but again, not a shock given how the team has played over the past 2 years.
Please don't get me wrong. The US team pulled a coup to get out of the group of death, no doubt about it. And I don't see them as a better team than any of the current final 8...so kudos for a strong appearance. But that's it. Good job. Not oh my Lord how gritty these Tom Brady play-alikes were in their selfless dedication to the team spirit of the American work ethic, eagles flying overhead and dammit, we were the first to put a man on the moon, even MLK would be proud, I believe I can fly, blah blah blah.
That said: I YOLO'd pretty hard yesterday. By the time the game as over I'd clocked in at SEVEN beers. Regional light American lager, sure, but I haven't had SEVEN beers in a long long time. Hot day in Seattle, and I was ripping around on a bike, so it was chill.
We have this weird setup here right now where soccer's pretty big. Europhile homebrewers come at it from that intellectual angle with their beards. They have convinced themselves that soccer's not just Big Money Sports. That somehow these guys aren't the same as other jocks. Full-on rationalization. Clint Dempsey has a shitty rap song and got suspended for punching a guy in the dick this season for the Sounders. A teammate was heard calling an opponent a faggot on TV last year. These are the same jocks.
But I'm cool with that. Sports are mostly real and unscripted and true. Big money on the line. I'll take that over other TV shows, right?
As for yesterday, they didn't play to win until what--100 minutes in? That frustrated me. I know they were up against at least three dudes I'd heard of (Fellaeaeainnni--I see him on bass in a Cream or Rare Earth type album cover, Kompany--rad name, Hazard--did anyone manage to pull out a "duke boys meet the real Hazzard" line anywhere?), and it's Belgium AKA land of tough man cyclists or whatever, but motherfuckers could've won that game! Wondolowski's was like I dunno not too mad at him but Dempsey bro come on dood!
Raaaaaahhhhhh!
OH YES: claims of USA's team always being so well-conditioned? They've had two or three big players out due to fitness issues this tournament. I don't buy that argument.
USA has 300000000 people. The sport's already popular enough to succeed. I'll be a nutless wonder and say that it already has succeeded. I think that putting it all on the hopes that some mega star will come out of Detroit to become the best player the world has ever seen and boom Jethro's ditching his Dale Jr ballcap for one of those scarfs...well that's not going to happen. But the shit is hot!
There's still a strange feeling though when they put in that Yedlin dude, who's from the Seattle area, who'll do empty autograph signings at the outlet malls, and he's out there trying to D up some guy who stars for fuckin Chelsea! It shows I'll buy into that silly "oh soccer is just a college boy sport in the US but it's the life and blood of these other historical blah blah blah" it's just a ball sport with six rules: shuttup with the mythology.
I've watched a lot of this World Cup and have enjoyed almost all of it. The heavy hitters look wobbly. France is young and cool. USA got further than Ingerland. Brazil actually has a dude called Hulk who may be a pussy. The raw pre-game warmups on the watchESPN are amazing: Busby Berkeley meets Baraka doods I SWEAR IT
France/Germany will be sick.
YOLO
Soccer is the biggest sport in Seattle and has been for a minute (I use this stat against Seahawks fans a lot!).
But yeah I totally witnessed the same BS reationalization that you cite here re: the players being anything other than typical superstar athletes. People acting like these dudes play for free or some shit.
For the record, those vids were excellent
Thanks Harvey
B/w
It always wears better on the small nation coming good, don't beat yourselves up dudes
Great keepers, displaying their prowess; it's what they are there for.
Many countries have GK heroes; we have Gordon Banks, Schmrichrl IS Denmark, there's Lev Yashin of Russian folklore, Pat Jennings for NI, more recently Iker C and Buffon.
Keeper heroics have been the significant motif in Brasil.
It's not the sign of failure; it's a sign of immense strength.
Shots are meh.
27-9 led to 2-1, despite everything Howard could muster. He coulda been full fledged Superman out there, which he pretty much was, and that 3-1 shots on goal ratio was bound to finally get the best of him and his team...which it did.
You know this though.
The world loves USMNT
Only a few beard stroking intellectuals who have never met 2 pie 2 mash n liquor few beers w/ the lads rumble with the away mob recall the Spanish era with fondness; the rest of us rejoice that this WC brought back the gung ho of yesteryear.
W happen in Belo Horizonte, and will it affect my enjoyment of QF games?
Speak on it
Overpass collapsed due to shoddy construction. Shitty, but shouldn't affect the game, I don't think.
This isn't always the case, and that is one of the joys of football. You can have the superior possession, technique and chances all day. But if you don't assert that superiority and take those chances, or even if you have a bit of lousy luck, it can all end in misery. That final fifteen minutes of normal time could have sent the game either way.
The one thing USA really suffered from against Belgium was the lack of a proper striker and some genuinely attack-minded midfielders, which is perhaps an odd thing to say with a player like Dempsey in the side, but still. I lost count of the amount of times I saw Beasley and Yedlin go tearing down the wings into the Belgian final third and into the ideal position to deliver a cross to...nobody. The midfield was constantly behind the play, and seemed to completely lack the appetite to run into space and receive the ball in the box - if it wasn't going to come directly to their feet, they weren't going to work to get it. There was a lack of guile, too. When the likes of Bradley did get the ball, they'd try and dribble through a well-organised Belgian defence full of guys built like centers. But if you're running at defenders to get on the end of a ball coming in from out wide, there's a chance of drawing a foul and creating a scoring opportunity from a dead-ball situation. That never seemed to occur to them. There was a chance to make football history the other night and it's hugely uncharacteristic of American sportsmen not to grab such a chance with both hands.
USA's obvious commitment to the idea of playing aesthetically attractive football is admirable, but sometimes you need to forget aesthetics and focus on getting the win; an ugly one, if necessary. It's no good trying to play clever little dummies in the box like you saw Pirlo do if there's nobody running onto the ball, or hitting 30-yard passes into empty space. There's still plenty to take encouragement from, though. From '94 on, USA's made consistent, steady progress on the world stage - slow progress, admittedly, but in the right direction. No reason whatsoever to think that can't continue. Also, I've seen a few people wonder out loud if Howard will be too old for the next World Cup, and I doubt that very much. If he avoids serious injury and continues playing at the highest level, which he's more than capable of, there's absolutely no reason he can't continue well into his forties, as many top keepers often do. In fact, if I was the USA coach, I'd make him captain right now.