Theory #2.
People think a passenger jet can't go missing.
LW Conspiracy Theory #2:
Much larger, less mobile, ships have gone missing for years.
Modern day pirates commander container ships, and oil tankers.
Some are ransomed, but many disappear.
There is a market for stolen oil and cargo and ships on that scale.
But today 80% of all ships are carrying armed guards, that is how bad the problem got.
So now pirates are looking elsewhere.
This could be the first of many.
Turn off communications, make a couple of unexpected turns, disappear.
Land at a per-arranged airstrip, right into hanger. New paint job and communication gear. Sell to unscrupulous airline.
Does not answer what happened to the passengers.
There are not a plethora of runways a 777 can land on worldwide, and 787 dont even think about it. Piracy stems from people being fucking poor. Fucking poor people dont buy plane tickets to stick up a plane with a locked cabin.
Folks, please understand I was just goofing around with my CTs.
They are totally far fetched. Not because finding a runway is so hard, or pirates are poor. They are far fetched because we have no facts except the plane took off then disappeared.
If you want to say a few conflicting radar/radio/satellite reports are facts go ahead.
If you want to say you know what happened because you read an article by someone claiming to be a pilot on the internet, go ahead.
Doesn't make you any smarter than the guy who knows it was remote controlled to an uncharted island by aliens masons.
Until one of you fools has some facts I am hoping for the best.
If you want to say you know what happened because you read an article by someone claiming to be a pilot on the internet, go ahead.
Doesn't make you any smarter than the guy who knows it was remote controlled to an uncharted island by aliens masons.
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Much more at the link.
Thanks that was a good read, seriously. But the 0 communication thing still bugs me. You've got smoke in the cabin, you try to extinguish the cause by flying to 45 000 ft, at which point you stall and plunge to 5000 ft and you still don't send out an SOS? One would have to conclude that the fire systematically tooks out all possible means of communications and location tracking devices and yet still left computer navigation equipment and flight control and engines functional? I don't know, it sounds just as far fetched as anything else at this point.
Thanks that was a good read, seriously. But the 0 communication thing still bugs me. You've got smoke in the cabin, you try to extinguish the cause by flying to 45 000 ft, at which point you stall and plunge to 5000 ft and you still don't send out an SOS? One would have to conclude that the fire systematically tooks out all possible means of communications and location tracking devices and yet still left computer navigation equipment and flight control and engines functional? I don't know, it sounds just as far fetched as anything else at this point.
You could send out a billion SOS's.
No one could help, since sons of Krypton don't actually exist.
That's why "communicate" is last on the list.
I'm certainly not claiming that this piece is definitive, but of all the scenarios I've seen it seems the most plausible. And not "far fetched" in any way.
Thanks that was a good read, seriously. But the 0 communication thing still bugs me. You've got smoke in the cabin, you try to extinguish the cause by flying to 45 000 ft, at which point you stall and plunge to 5000 ft and you still don't send out an SOS? One would have to conclude that the fire systematically tooks out all possible means of communications and location tracking devices and yet still left computer navigation equipment and flight control and engines functional? I don't know, it sounds just as far fetched as anything else at this point.
You could send out a billion SOS's.
No one could help, since sons of Krypton don't actually exist.
Right. But logic would say a pilot would radio in "holy shit, the plane is on fire" or ANYTHING for that matter. Not to mention, would there be enough oxygen on board to create a widespread and intense fire to disable communications? There's just too many unanswered questions at this point to make any definitive answer. Try as we might.
Did I read something about the plane climbing to 46,000 feet and how the passengers wouldn't have had enough oxygen to breathe?
Neither would a fire. Maybe the pilot was trying to put one out, maybe had no choice about flying low afterwards - engine/s out of action...
None of the "Evidence" seems to be consistent. It's certainly not adding up properly.
Perhaps someone just shot it down, clandestine deals/apologies have been made, the wreckage has been disposed of and all that's left is a cursory makeweight rummage over a couple of waves, nice training exercise, then back to business as usual?
This mystery reminds me of the bizarre accident in which golfer Payne Stewart and a few others died when their plane flew on for hours on autopilot at high altitude until it ran out of fuel and crashed. This alone can't explain all the "evidence" but, - speaking as a total non aviation expert - I wonder if it could have been one in a series of black events that led to the plane's disappearance.
On October 25, 1999, a month after the American team rallied to win the 1999 Ryder Cup in Brookline, Massachusetts, and four months after his U.S. Open victory at Pinehurst No. 2, Stewart was killed in the depressurization of a Learjet flying from Orlando, Florida, to Dallas, Texas, for the year-ending tournament, The Tour Championship, held at Champions Golf Club in Houston that year. Traveling on a Monday morning, Stewart was planning to stop off in Dallas to discuss building a new home-course for the SMU golf program.[24] The last communication received from the pilots was at 9:27 AM EDT, and the plane made a right turn at 9:30 AM EDT that was probably the result of human input.
At 9:33 AM EDT the pilots did not respond to a call to change radio frequencies, and there was no further contact from the plane. The plane was, apparently, still on autopilot and angled off-course, as observed by several U.S. Air Force (and Air National Guard) F-16 fighter aircraft[25] as it continued its flight over the southern and midwestern United States. The military pilots observed frost or condensation on the windshield (consistent with loss of cabin pressure) which obscured the cockpit, and no motion was visible through the small patch of windshield that was clear.
National Transportation Safety Board investigators later concluded that the plane suffered a loss of cabin pressure and that all on board died of hypoxia. A delay of only a few seconds in donning oxygen masks, coupled with cognitive and motor skill impairment, could have been enough to result in the pilots' incapacitation.
There's a fire on the plane and none of the passengers used their cell phones to call loved ones? Not trying to stoke the conspriracy here, but that strikes me as odd. Maybe I missed that part?
There's a fire on the plane and none of the passengers used their cell phones to call loved ones? Not trying to stoke the conspriracy here, but that strikes me as odd. Maybe I missed that part?
Used their cell phones while over an ocean and 23,000+ feet up in the air? I'm not sure it's possible.
Slate has had the best coverage of this, just go there as your #1 source. Today they thoroughly discredited the Wired theory, and have had an entire article on why cell phones wouldn't work.
Just a thought I had. I'm not big on the speculation going on right now, but I lean toward what's logical. I was flipping channels and stopped on Fox news last night. Before a commercial break some angry lady that's a female version of O'Reilly posed this question to her viewers vis a vis the plane: "MISSING PLANE? WAS THIS AN ACT OF TERRORISM? (Cut to an ad for Prevacid.)
I wish everyone would stop speculating until an actual fact is presented.
Slate has had the best coverage of this, just go there as your #1 source. Today they thoroughly discredited the Wired theory, and have had an entire article on why cell phones wouldn't work.
They bring up some good points. Seems like that last blip of location information goes against the Wired explanation.
The author of the wired article has posted on G+ a proclamation that he feels the search will come to an end in the next 24 hours (as of 9:50PM last night):
Somehow I believe this is coming to an end. The reported sighting over the Maldives coincides with the time line well. The aircraft is probably a small distance west of Maldives. I believe it will be found in next 24 hours hopefully. Finally searching in the right place on that extended line which goes over the Maldives I suggested in the first post.
I have purposely declined all media interviews with all major networks CNN FOX CBS ABC NBC MSNBC ESPN. I do not wish to join the talking heads on 24 hour news channels. I wrote the original post because I felt the speculation was running amok. I have done two radio interviews with BBC in London because I respect the way they have handled it. We discussed primarily why this had become such a huge social media story to begin with.
you know what, the human tragedy part is horrible, but i like to know that we are in a world where mysterious shit can still happen. im not trying to be insensitive at all. sometimes its real disconcerting when i feel that weve explored every inch of the planet and have satellites and cameras that can zoom in on any presumed suspect at the drop of a dime. i want more yetis and loch ness monsters and jersey devils and hermits living in hiding.
and of course i do hope everyone is ok
"are ya hip to easter island? the bermuda triangle?"
this mystery has me hopeful for all those poor folks up there wherever they may be. i feel their family's pain, i have lost 3 family members to a plane crash, it's unbearable. i hope they uncover something that gives them closure. until such time, this has revved up my dorment adoration for Mothership Connection.....
Slate has had the best coverage of this, just go there as your #1 source. Today they thoroughly discredited the Wired theory, and have had an entire article on why cell phones wouldn't work.
The Wire story was bunk from the start. How any one could have thought otherwise is the mystery.
Slate has had the best coverage of this, just go there as your #1 source. Today they thoroughly discredited the Wired theory, and have had an entire article on why cell phones wouldn't work.
They bring up some good points. Seems like that last blip of location information goes against the Wired explanation.
The author of the wired article has posted on G+ a proclamation that he feels the search will come to an end in the next 24 hours (as of 9:50PM last night):
Somehow I believe this is coming to an end. The reported sighting over the Maldives coincides with the time line well. The aircraft is probably a small distance west of Maldives. I believe it will be found in next 24 hours hopefully. Finally searching in the right place on that extended line which goes over the Maldives I suggested in the first post.
I have purposely declined all media interviews with all major networks CNN FOX CBS ABC NBC MSNBC ESPN. I do not wish to join the talking heads on 24 hour news channels. I wrote the original post because I felt the speculation was running amok. I have done two radio interviews with BBC in London because I respect the way they have handled it. We discussed primarily why this had become such a huge social media story to begin with.
Who knows if he's right.
Dude who yesterday knew the airstrip it landed on today knows where it went down?
I wonder why he feels speculation is running amok?
Dude who yesterday knew the airstrip it landed on today knows where it went down?
I wonder why he feels speculation is running amok?
He wrote that article about a week ago (and it was already posted and discussed here) before it was known that the engines kept pinging for 7 hours. After that was revealed even he admitted it made his theory a lot less likely. At the time he wrote it, it was a solid bit of logic based on the information he had.
And to address a point brought up here - in the event of on board fire or loss of pressure the pilot has about a hundred things to do and maybe seconds to do them. Sending out a mayday or radioing in are not among them. If there is a cockpit fire, pulling the breakers that power the radio might be the first thing he does.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
If this was 9/11, y'all would be saying that the pilot spent his last seconds purposefully destroying the black box while making sure his drivers license was ejected out the window just in time to land perfectly in tact right next to the now destroyed building, all the while holding off 150 distraught passengers with mere boxcutters.
If this was 9/11, y'all would be saying that the pilot spent his last seconds purposefully destroying the black box while making sure his drivers license was ejected out the window just in time to land perfectly in tact right next to the now destroyed building, all the while holding off 150 distraught passengers with mere boxcutters.
In other words, plaese to stop.
speaking of 9/11 (here we go!), conspiracy theorists (specifically those who attribute the attack to the US gov't) have never been able to explain to me why they didn't plant a more plausible Iraq connection. you go through all that trouble of designing an attack, killing thousands, etc, only to start the painstaking process a year later of convincing a dubious world that Saddam is a threat sufficient to warrant regime change (something most of the world still doesn't believe). it's like, save yourselves the trouble and just write "made in Iraq" on the boxcutters...
I appreciate that people are trying to create logical stories based on the little they know.
I even appreciate that people latch onto the stories as somehow true.
There are many stories you can create using logic and the info you have.
It is called speculation run amok.
Gareth, Thanks for recommending Slate as a source.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
rootlesscosmo said:
HarveyCanal said:
If this was 9/11, y'all would be saying that the pilot spent his last seconds purposefully destroying the black box while making sure his drivers license was ejected out the window just in time to land perfectly in tact right next to the now destroyed building, all the while holding off 150 distraught passengers with mere boxcutters.
In other words, plaese to stop.
speaking of 9/11 (here we go!), conspiracy theorists (specifically those who attribute the attack to the US gov't) have never been able to explain to me why they didn't plant a more plausible Iraq connection. you go through all that trouble of designing an attack, killing thousands, etc, only to start the painstaking process a year later of convincing a dubious world that Saddam in a threat sufficient to warrant regime change (something most of the world still doesn't believe). it's like, save yourselves the trouble and just write "made in Iraq" on the boxcutters...
You don't have to convince and make proper sense when you are in a position to dictate.
But yeah, you would think that since the so-called perpetrators were mostly Saudi, that there woulda been as snag attacking Iraq as the response.
Not in this climate though. Authority just does whatever it feels like and the populace goes along in order to restore their McDonald's access.
And yes, I'm saying that our media is spineless if not 100% bought off.
Thanks that was a good read, seriously. But the 0 communication thing still bugs me. You've got smoke in the cabin, you try to extinguish the cause by flying to 45 000 ft, at which point you stall and plunge to 5000 ft and you still don't send out an SOS? One would have to conclude that the fire systematically tooks out all possible means of communications and location tracking devices and yet still left computer navigation equipment and flight control and engines functional? I don't know, it sounds just as far fetched as anything else at this point.
You could send out a billion SOS's.
No one could help, since sons of Krypton don't actually exist.
Right. But logic would say a pilot would radio in "holy shit, the plane is on fire" or ANYTHING for that matter. Not to mention, would there be enough oxygen on board to create a widespread and intense fire to disable communications? There's just too many unanswered questions at this point to make any definitive answer. Try as we might.
yeah even if cell phones wouldn't work at that altitude/distance from land, I'm not buying the cockpit-fire-instantly-rendering-the-whole-crew-unconscious-before-they-have-a-chance-to-tell-anyone-and-before-anyone-outside-the-cockpit-noticed.
serious question though: assuming in a fantasy scenario that the people in a cockpit are unable to communicate for whatever reason, and cell phones aren't working: is there any type of communication device available to the cabin crew or passengers on an airplane? I mean outside of the cockpit? do the stewardesses have access to any type of radio or distress signal sender type thingy? Or is all communication equipment contained in the cockpit?
speaking of 9/11 (here we go!), conspiracy theorists (specifically those who attribute the attack to the US gov't) have never been able to explain to me why they didn't plant a more plausible Iraq connection. you go through all that trouble of designing an attack, killing thousands, etc, only to start the painstaking process a year later of convincing a dubious world that Saddam is a threat sufficient to warrant regime change (something most of the world still doesn't believe). it's like, save yourselves the trouble and just write "made in Iraq" on the boxcutters...
some real half-ass shit.
You don't have to have the answers to know that that shit did not go down as they said it did.
Everyone so quick to throw up "conspiracy theory! conspiracy theory!"
man I'm not trying to SILENCE THE DEBATE but there are a lot of websites on the internet where you can discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories, maybe the one in which one or more posters lost family in those disasters isn't the one to do it.
According to Slate, Business Class passengers had air to ground phones.
I don't know about non-cockpit crew.
There has not been one factual report of a fire or other emergency.
So when you ask why didn't the passengers call? you are speculating that there was an emergency.
man I'm not trying to SILENCE THE DEBATE but there are a lot of websites on the internet where you can discuss 9/11 conspiracy theories, maybe the one in which one or more posters lost family in those disasters isn't the one to do it.
Comments
Folks, please understand I was just goofing around with my CTs.
They are totally far fetched. Not because finding a runway is so hard, or pirates are poor. They are far fetched because we have no facts except the plane took off then disappeared.
If you want to say a few conflicting radar/radio/satellite reports are facts go ahead.
If you want to say you know what happened because you read an article by someone claiming to be a pilot on the internet, go ahead.
Doesn't make you any smarter than the guy who knows it was remote controlled to an uncharted island by aliens masons.
Until one of you fools has some facts I am hoping for the best.
It's not about "smarter."
It's about "less crazy."
There is no shortage of mentally ill geniuses.
Thanks that was a good read, seriously. But the 0 communication thing still bugs me. You've got smoke in the cabin, you try to extinguish the cause by flying to 45 000 ft, at which point you stall and plunge to 5000 ft and you still don't send out an SOS? One would have to conclude that the fire systematically tooks out all possible means of communications and location tracking devices and yet still left computer navigation equipment and flight control and engines functional? I don't know, it sounds just as far fetched as anything else at this point.
You could send out a billion SOS's.
No one could help, since sons of Krypton don't actually exist.
That's why "communicate" is last on the list.
I'm certainly not claiming that this piece is definitive, but of all the scenarios I've seen it seems the most plausible. And not "far fetched" in any way.
Right. But logic would say a pilot would radio in "holy shit, the plane is on fire" or ANYTHING for that matter. Not to mention, would there be enough oxygen on board to create a widespread and intense fire to disable communications? There's just too many unanswered questions at this point to make any definitive answer. Try as we might.
Neither would a fire. Maybe the pilot was trying to put one out, maybe had no choice about flying low afterwards - engine/s out of action...
Perhaps someone just shot it down, clandestine deals/apologies have been made, the wreckage has been disposed of and all that's left is a cursory makeweight rummage over a couple of waves, nice training exercise, then back to business as usual?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payne_Stewart
Used their cell phones while over an ocean and 23,000+ feet up in the air? I'm not sure it's possible.
I wish everyone would stop speculating until an actual fact is presented.
They bring up some good points. Seems like that last blip of location information goes against the Wired explanation.
The author of the wired article has posted on G+ a proclamation that he feels the search will come to an end in the next 24 hours (as of 9:50PM last night):
Who knows if he's right.
"are ya hip to easter island? the bermuda triangle?"
this mystery has me hopeful for all those poor folks up there wherever they may be. i feel their family's pain, i have lost 3 family members to a plane crash, it's unbearable. i hope they uncover something that gives them closure. until such time, this has revved up my dorment adoration for Mothership Connection.....
The Wire story was bunk from the start. How any one could have thought otherwise is the mystery.
Still hoping for resolution.
Thank you.
Dude who yesterday knew the airstrip it landed on today knows where it went down?
I wonder why he feels speculation is running amok?
He wrote that article about a week ago (and it was already posted and discussed here) before it was known that the engines kept pinging for 7 hours. After that was revealed even he admitted it made his theory a lot less likely. At the time he wrote it, it was a solid bit of logic based on the information he had.
And to address a point brought up here - in the event of on board fire or loss of pressure the pilot has about a hundred things to do and maybe seconds to do them. Sending out a mayday or radioing in are not among them. If there is a cockpit fire, pulling the breakers that power the radio might be the first thing he does.
In other words, plaese to stop.
speaking of 9/11 (here we go!), conspiracy theorists (specifically those who attribute the attack to the US gov't) have never been able to explain to me why they didn't plant a more plausible Iraq connection. you go through all that trouble of designing an attack, killing thousands, etc, only to start the painstaking process a year later of convincing a dubious world that Saddam is a threat sufficient to warrant regime change (something most of the world still doesn't believe). it's like, save yourselves the trouble and just write "made in Iraq" on the boxcutters...
some real half-ass shit.
I even appreciate that people latch onto the stories as somehow true.
There are many stories you can create using logic and the info you have.
It is called speculation run amok.
Gareth, Thanks for recommending Slate as a source.
You don't have to convince and make proper sense when you are in a position to dictate.
But yeah, you would think that since the so-called perpetrators were mostly Saudi, that there woulda been as snag attacking Iraq as the response.
Not in this climate though. Authority just does whatever it feels like and the populace goes along in order to restore their McDonald's access.
And yes, I'm saying that our media is spineless if not 100% bought off.
yeah even if cell phones wouldn't work at that altitude/distance from land, I'm not buying the cockpit-fire-instantly-rendering-the-whole-crew-unconscious-before-they-have-a-chance-to-tell-anyone-and-before-anyone-outside-the-cockpit-noticed.
serious question though: assuming in a fantasy scenario that the people in a cockpit are unable to communicate for whatever reason, and cell phones aren't working: is there any type of communication device available to the cabin crew or passengers on an airplane? I mean outside of the cockpit? do the stewardesses have access to any type of radio or distress signal sender type thingy? Or is all communication equipment contained in the cockpit?
You don't have to have the answers to know that that shit did not go down as they said it did.
Everyone so quick to throw up "conspiracy theory! conspiracy theory!"
can we, maybe, you know...?
I don't know about non-cockpit crew.
There has not been one factual report of a fire or other emergency.
So when you ask why didn't the passengers call? you are speculating that there was an emergency.
+1