the thought i keep getting is some super villain plot with an image of some remote Dr.No. hopefully some capable james bonds are on the case and not on team cover-up.
sadly, this was my first instinct too. like.. did the side of a mountain open up and they flew that thing into some supervillain's lair?
Apparently saying "All right, goodnight" is not the proper protocol for what he was communicating at the time. Also, the co pilot said "All right, goodnight." The pilot seems like a fucking boyscout. The co pilot, not so much. Additionally, could he have not followed communication procedure to hint under duress that something was wrong, and the stupid air traffic controllers simply didn't give a shit? Shrug, who the fuck knows, but the atc dropped the ball on that one.
I saw someone spitballing the other day saying this plane could have "low flown" to Somalia or Yemen (I don't know if it had enough fuel to do that, my guess is it didn't). Those are fabulous places to avoid radar detection though because they are incredibly technologically deficient countries.
Apparently saying "All right, goodnight" is not the proper protocol for what he was communicating at the time. Also, the co pilot said "All right, goodnight." The pilot seems like a fucking boyscout. The co pilot, not so much. Additionally, could he have not followed communication procedure to hint under duress that something was wrong, and the stupid air traffic controllers simply didn't give a shit? Shrug, who the fuck knows, but the atc dropped the ball on that one.
I saw someone spitballing the other day saying this plane could have "low flown" to Somalia or Yemen (I don't know if it had enough fuel to do that, my guess is it didn't). Those are fabulous places to avoid radar detection though because they are incredibly technologically deficient countries.
having read the gladwell book "outliers", he speaks directly to why more asian airlines have .... "incidents" ... than the rest of the developed world, and most of it stems from the co-pilot's or engineer's (subordinate) cultural programming that would disallow them from doubting or correcting their captain (superior) as a form of honour. malaysia is right up there at the top of the list in "power distance".
It sounded more reasonable before it was determined that the plane flew for 6 hours after the last contact.
In this scenario, a fire that partially disabled the plane and overcame the crew could somehow continue to burn for 6 hours before the plane crashed. Possible, I suppose, but it's at the outer fringes of plausibility, imo.
But then again, so are most of the other theories.
you know what, the human tragedy part is horrible, but i like to know that we are in a world where mysterious shit can still happen. im not trying to be insensitive at all. sometimes its real disconcerting when i feel that weve explored every inch of the planet and have satellites and cameras that can zoom in on any presumed suspect at the drop of a dime. i want more yetis and loch ness monsters and jersey devils and hermits living in hiding.
you know what, the human tragedy part is horrible, but i like to know that we are in a world where mysterious shit can still happen. im not trying to be insensitive at all. sometimes its real disconcerting when i feel that weve explored every inch of the planet and have satellites and cameras that can zoom in on any presumed suspect at the drop of a dime. i want more yetis and loch ness monsters and jersey devils and hermits living in hiding.
and of course i do hope everyone is ok
I'm also kinda shocked; if someone had told me 2 wks ago that a jumbojet full of people could disappear without a trace I'd say you were crazy: with all the satellite coverage, the digital and radar footprint of not only the plane itself but its constituent parts (like the engine), the fact that everyone on board has a cell phone or other device, the extensive penetration of surveillance cameras and listening devices on the earth's surface, the massive air traffic (other planes in the sky) at any given hour of day, radio coverage, etc.......it boggles the mind that a plane full of people could disappear.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
rootlesscosmo said:
HarveyCanal said:
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
Not really, especially if all the surveillance is handled by a central source. And it wouldn't take much to jam cell phones.
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
Not really, especially if all the surveillance is handled by a central source. And it wouldn't take much to jam cell phones.
Not trying to step on your point though.
so the same people who are running a covert black ops intelligence database with draconian plans to control the planet unbeknownst to the general public decided to make a plane with 250 people on it disappear in front of the whole world? seems legit. and i'll bet you're right because we cant prove you wrong, just like the creationists.
"d'oh! we forgot to disseminate a plausible cover story for the plane's disappearance! now everyone's asking questions. fuck."
all-powerful cabals always bungle these operations somehow.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
vintageinfants said:
HarveyCanal said:
rootlesscosmo said:
HarveyCanal said:
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
Not really, especially if all the surveillance is handled by a central source. And it wouldn't take much to jam cell phones.
Not trying to step on your point though.
so the same people who are running a covert black ops intelligence database with draconian plans to control the planet unbeknownst to the general public decided to make a plane with 250 people on it disappear in front of the whole world? seems legit. and i'll bet you're right because we cant prove you wrong, just like the creationists.
not trying to step on your point though.
Did I say a word about who might have done this? I'm just saying that as these sort of things happen time and time again, people like you stay stuck on the too-many-people-involved-in-order-to-keep-the-facts-hidden hurdle...as if the Warren Commission and all of that JFK assassination bs didn't happen like 50 years ago.
Face it, as a mere newspaper/website reader, you don't know shit. But that doesn't stop you from shooting down half the theories out there, some of which that might be completely valid.
2001: no way that passenger planes can be remote controlled (even though they can be).
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
Not really, especially if all the surveillance is handled by a central source. And it wouldn't take much to jam cell phones.
Not trying to step on your point though.
so the same people who are running a covert black ops intelligence database with draconian plans to control the planet unbeknownst to the general public decided to make a plane with 250 people on it disappear in front of the whole world? seems legit. and i'll bet you're right because we cant prove you wrong, just like the creationists.
not trying to step on your point though.
Did I say a word about who might have done this? I'm just saying that as these sort of things happen time and time again, people like you stay stuck on the too-many-people-involved-in-order-to-keep-the-facts-hidden hurdle...as if the Warren Commission and all of that JFK assassination bs didn't happen like 50 years ago.
Face it, as a mere newspaper/website reader, you don't know shit. But that doesn't stop you from shooting down half the theories out there, some of which that might be completely valid.
But seriously, stolen by remote control pirates is about as plausible as any other theory out there given what we know, which is almost nothing.
I too have a conspiracy theory.
Uighur separatist stole the plane (perhaps by remote control, hadn't thought about that) flew it a remote region of Xinjiang Provence. This is in the range of where we are told the plane could be. It has been reported that some passengers are Uighurs. Likely not hard to find a spot with out cell service in Xinjiang Provence.
Naturally, China's spy capabilities tracked the whole thing, with in 24hrs China's military had raided the landing site, ending in a battle that killed all the passengers.
Naturally, US spy capabilities tracked the whole thing, but don't want to let China know how good their capabilities are. China does not want to tell the world that they bungled the rescue and killed everyone.
Not that I believe any of that. Until there is evidence otherwise I will continue to believe that all are safe, but lost.
Theory #2.
People think a passenger jet can't go missing.
LW Conspiracy Theory #2:
Much larger, less mobile, ships have gone missing for years.
Modern day pirates commander container ships, and oil tankers.
Some are ransomed, but many disappear.
There is a market for stolen oil and cargo and ships on that scale.
But today 80% of all ships are carrying armed guards, that is how bad the problem got.
So now pirates are looking elsewhere.
This could be the first of many.
Turn off communications, make a couple of unexpected turns, disappear.
Land at a per-arranged airstrip, right into hanger. New paint job and communication gear. Sell to unscrupulous airline.
Theory #2.
People think a passenger jet can't go missing.
LW Conspiracy Theory #2:
Much larger, less mobile, ships have gone missing for years.
Modern day pirates commander container ships, and oil tankers.
Some are ransomed, but many disappear.
There is a market for stolen oil and cargo and ships on that scale.
But today 80% of all ships are carrying armed guards, that is how bad the problem got.
So now pirates are looking elsewhere.
This could be the first of many.
Turn off communications, make a couple of unexpected turns, disappear.
Land at a per-arranged airstrip, right into hanger. New paint job and communication gear. Sell to unscrupulous airline.
Does not answer what happened to the passengers.
There are not a plethora of runways a 777 can land on worldwide, and 787 dont even think about it. Piracy stems from people being fucking poor. Fucking poor people dont buy plane tickets to stick up a plane with a locked cabin.
Sorry to interrupt the Alex Jones Tinfoil Hat Comedy Hour, but one of my brother's friends, an ex-Navy pilot with 30+ years of flying experience, sent him a link to this:
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Sorry to interrupt the Alex Jones Tinfoil Hat Comedy Hour, but one of my brother's friends, an ex-Navy pilot with 30+ years of flying experience, sent him a link to this:
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Much more at the link.
Thank you for reporting this sanity. A very good read for those who are more interested in finding out what happened and less interested in bleeds-leads bullshit. I mean, even if it turns out to be some crazy ass foul play shit...this certainly seems like the best place to start...Occam's Razor, etc etc...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Fuck Occam's Razor.
That's the dumbest shit ever...especially when applied to news events that aren't just nature at work.
That's the dumbest shit ever...especially when applied to news events that aren't just nature at work.
You shitting on it actually makes it seem like a more logical application...even if it isn't an event completely controlled/grounded by nature at work.
I'd honestly be kinda freaked out if you were like 'yeah that was a good read'...I'd think you've kidnapped and you are trying to signal us.
Sorry to interrupt the Alex Jones Tinfoil Hat Comedy Hour, but one of my brother's friends, an ex-Navy pilot with 30+ years of flying experience, sent him a link to this:
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Much more at the link.
Thank you for reporting this sanity. A very good read for those who are more interested in finding out what happened and less interested in bleeds-leads bullshit. I mean, even if it turns out to be some crazy ass foul play shit...this certainly seems like the best place to start...Occam's Razor, etc etc...
Sorry to interrupt the Alex Jones Tinfoil Hat Comedy Hour, but one of my brother's friends, an ex-Navy pilot with 30+ years of flying experience, sent him a link to this:
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Much more at the link.
Thank you for reporting this sanity. A very good read for those who are more interested in finding out what happened and less interested in bleeds-leads bullshit. I mean, even if it turns out to be some crazy ass foul play shit...this certainly seems like the best place to start...Occam's Razor, etc etc...
So glad to know that LM&J used logic to find the plane.
Good news it's in Malaysia!
Bad news, the Malaysian government wont take LM&J's phone calls.
Sorry to interrupt the Alex Jones Tinfoil Hat Comedy Hour, but one of my brother's friends, an ex-Navy pilot with 30+ years of flying experience, sent him a link to this:
Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. TheyÔÇÖre always in our head. Always. If something happens, you donÔÇÖt want to be thinking about what are you going to doÔÇôyou already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.
Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.
For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.
Much more at the link.
Thank you for reporting this sanity. A very good read for those who are more interested in finding out what happened and less interested in bleeds-leads bullshit. I mean, even if it turns out to be some crazy ass foul play shit...this certainly seems like the best place to start...Occam's Razor, etc etc...
Understood...the article addresses that minimally by saying:
Ongoing speculation ... that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.
I'm not looking at this article as the gospel/official accounting of events...just seems like the most sane/logical place to start....if rational/logical unveiling of evidence takes people into more nefarious territory, so be it...
At the moment, the news is rife with essentially shitting on the two pilots where there is a good chance that they were trying to do everything they could do to stop a disaster....just saying, it's people's lives, families lives, careers, etc etc...the media should handle it rationally and delicately..I know they are programmed not to do that but it's a shame to watch them jump on the juiciest "explanation" and stay on it.
Comments
sadly, this was my first instinct too. like.. did the side of a mountain open up and they flew that thing into some supervillain's lair?
I saw someone spitballing the other day saying this plane could have "low flown" to Somalia or Yemen (I don't know if it had enough fuel to do that, my guess is it didn't). Those are fabulous places to avoid radar detection though because they are incredibly technologically deficient countries.
having read the gladwell book "outliers", he speaks directly to why more asian airlines have .... "incidents" ... than the rest of the developed world, and most of it stems from the co-pilot's or engineer's (subordinate) cultural programming that would disallow them from doubting or correcting their captain (superior) as a form of honour. malaysia is right up there at the top of the list in "power distance".
https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz
It sounded more reasonable before it was determined that the plane flew for 6 hours after the last contact.
In this scenario, a fire that partially disabled the plane and overcame the crew could somehow continue to burn for 6 hours before the plane crashed. Possible, I suppose, but it's at the outer fringes of plausibility, imo.
But then again, so are most of the other theories.
and of course i do hope everyone is ok
I'm also kinda shocked; if someone had told me 2 wks ago that a jumbojet full of people could disappear without a trace I'd say you were crazy: with all the satellite coverage, the digital and radar footprint of not only the plane itself but its constituent parts (like the engine), the fact that everyone on board has a cell phone or other device, the extensive penetration of surveillance cameras and listening devices on the earth's surface, the massive air traffic (other planes in the sky) at any given hour of day, radio coverage, etc.......it boggles the mind that a plane full of people could disappear.
2014: really, passenger planes can be remote controlled?
Oh, how far 13 years of overcoming our brainwashing has gotten us.
surely even you must admit that in our current police-state-world of wall-to-wall surveillance that it's pretty remarkable that a plane full of people can disappear?
Not really, especially if all the surveillance is handled by a central source. And it wouldn't take much to jam cell phones.
Not trying to step on your point though.
so the same people who are running a covert black ops intelligence database with draconian plans to control the planet unbeknownst to the general public decided to make a plane with 250 people on it disappear in front of the whole world? seems legit. and i'll bet you're right because we cant prove you wrong, just like the creationists.
not trying to step on your point though.
all-powerful cabals always bungle these operations somehow.
Did I say a word about who might have done this? I'm just saying that as these sort of things happen time and time again, people like you stay stuck on the too-many-people-involved-in-order-to-keep-the-facts-hidden hurdle...as if the Warren Commission and all of that JFK assassination bs didn't happen like 50 years ago.
Face it, as a mere newspaper/website reader, you don't know shit. But that doesn't stop you from shooting down half the theories out there, some of which that might be completely valid.
http://www.aux.tv/2014/03/courtney-love-thinks-shes-found-missing-malaysian-airlines-plane/
I too have a conspiracy theory.
Uighur separatist stole the plane (perhaps by remote control, hadn't thought about that) flew it a remote region of Xinjiang Provence. This is in the range of where we are told the plane could be. It has been reported that some passengers are Uighurs. Likely not hard to find a spot with out cell service in Xinjiang Provence.
Naturally, China's spy capabilities tracked the whole thing, with in 24hrs China's military had raided the landing site, ending in a battle that killed all the passengers.
Naturally, US spy capabilities tracked the whole thing, but don't want to let China know how good their capabilities are. China does not want to tell the world that they bungled the rescue and killed everyone.
Not that I believe any of that. Until there is evidence otherwise I will continue to believe that all are safe, but lost.
I'm sure they are safe and sound on Gumdrop Island
People think a passenger jet can't go missing.
LW Conspiracy Theory #2:
Much larger, less mobile, ships have gone missing for years.
Modern day pirates commander container ships, and oil tankers.
Some are ransomed, but many disappear.
There is a market for stolen oil and cargo and ships on that scale.
But today 80% of all ships are carrying armed guards, that is how bad the problem got.
So now pirates are looking elsewhere.
This could be the first of many.
Turn off communications, make a couple of unexpected turns, disappear.
Land at a per-arranged airstrip, right into hanger. New paint job and communication gear. Sell to unscrupulous airline.
Does not answer what happened to the passengers.
I hope you are right.
There are not a plethora of runways a 777 can land on worldwide, and 787 dont even think about it. Piracy stems from people being fucking poor. Fucking poor people dont buy plane tickets to stick up a plane with a locked cabin.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
Much more at the link.
Thank you for reporting this sanity. A very good read for those who are more interested in finding out what happened and less interested in bleeds-leads bullshit. I mean, even if it turns out to be some crazy ass foul play shit...this certainly seems like the best place to start...Occam's Razor, etc etc...
That's the dumbest shit ever...especially when applied to news events that aren't just nature at work.
Leave it to Huckabee to dismiss a principle of logic.
I'll bet he "trusts his gut" a lot.
Jeezus.
You shitting on it actually makes it seem like a more logical application...even if it isn't an event completely controlled/grounded by nature at work.
I'd honestly be kinda freaked out if you were like 'yeah that was a good read'...I'd think you've kidnapped and you are trying to signal us.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?_r=0
So glad to know that LM&J used logic to find the plane.
Good news it's in Malaysia!
Bad news, the Malaysian government wont take LM&J's phone calls.
Understood...the article addresses that minimally by saying:
I'm not looking at this article as the gospel/official accounting of events...just seems like the most sane/logical place to start....if rational/logical unveiling of evidence takes people into more nefarious territory, so be it...
At the moment, the news is rife with essentially shitting on the two pilots where there is a good chance that they were trying to do everything they could do to stop a disaster....just saying, it's people's lives, families lives, careers, etc etc...the media should handle it rationally and delicately..I know they are programmed not to do that but it's a shame to watch them jump on the juiciest "explanation" and stay on it.
FFS