Well, I think there are lots of levels of "authenticity" applied to every type of music - there are similar discussions all the time about whether or not something is authentic rock, authentic soul, blues, and so on. Almost always involving the concept of race, usually of the musician themselves but not always excluding their fanbase.
The tone I get from you (and others) is that it's not ok to like certain rap artists or records. That is, if you're white.
I don't know if that's your view of it, but that's what this seems to come back to - it's ok for a Black guy in the ghetto to like a certain record, but not ok for a white guy in a suit to like it. That guy has to have some legitimate reason (other than it just being good rap music).
I know a lot of white guys who like deep south porch guitar strumming blues records. I don't think they're constantly asked to justify their taste in blues, but I might be wrong.
The color barrier in our lives on a street level is much less significant than it is in yours, which leaves you being uncomfortable when you see each of blacks, whites and Latinos all united under a black flag.
It just seems that there is a difference[/b] between liking stuff[/b], and declaring the authenticity of something[/b] based on.... based on I don't know what.
Not to repeat myself, but authenticity is a legitimate concept in music and there are different reasons for which something can be called authentic. It's not limited to rap.
I have to say your argument is just too vague. I invite you, Day, Edpowers, or whoever else to be a bit more specific because it to me seems like a big old strawman. I don't know of anyone on this site who likes or dislikes something because of perceived authenticity or lack thereof. Well maybe B-Sides.
Not to repeat myself, but authenticity is a legitimate concept in music and there are different reasons for which something can be called authentic. It's not limited to rap.
I have to say your argument is just too vague. I invite you, Day, Edpowers, or whoever else to be a bit more specific because it to me seems like a big old strawman. I don't know of anyone on this site who likes or dislikes something because of perceived authenticity or lack thereof. Well maybe B-Sides.
Not to get dragged into this topic yet again cause I got REAL WORLD MOVEZ TO MAKE SON, BUT...
1. Rap is out of balance right now. Period. Anyone who wants to argue that doesn't want to admit to the reality of it. These days you could NEVER have the variety in the music as we did growing up. People have found a way to capitalize off the negative and I'm sure the white dudes who own the majority of the record labels profiting off this are laughing all the way to the bank and then some. Not only do they get paid, but the music and culture is also detrimental to the black community. It's a win/win situation for them.
2. I was gonna write a whole bunch of stuff about white folks/gangster shit, but I really don't have time to engage in that can of worms.
1. Rap is out of balance right now. Period. Anyone who wants to argue that doesn't want to admit to the reality of it. These days you could NEVER have the variety in the music as we did growing up.
I understand this reasoning. Does this refer to times when you had a coexistence of various styles within the mainstream (Digital, JB's, NWA, and alot of other artists going on at the same time, but being significantly different)? Because on the surface you are right, the styles presentend within the mainstream used to be a lot richer. But i don't think there is less variety in the music nowadays. It is just not on the surface anymore, but there are still alot things going on. Rap was outa control ten years ago as well, but yeah, it's gotten worse in terms of corporate involvement. I got your point.
1. Rap is out of balance right now. Period. Anyone who wants to argue that doesn't want to admit to the reality of it. These days you could NEVER have the variety in the music as we did growing up.
I understand this reasoning. Does this refer to times when you had a coexistence of various styles within the mainstream (Digital, JB's, NWA, and alot of other artists going on at the same time, but being significantly different)? Because on the surface you are right, the styles presentend within the mainstream used to be a lot richer. But i don't think there is less variety in the music nowadays. It is just not on the surface anymore, but there are still alot things going on. Rap was outa control ten years ago as well, but yeah, it's gotten worse in terms of corporate involvement. I got your point.
That's exactly what I meant. And I'm not saying there's no variety out there, but no one's taking chances on a Digital Underground, De La, etc. of today because it's safer to go with the FORMULA THAT WORKS.
yeah, i remember watching sth like "Yo" on MTV and thinking about that it was at times really diverse and rich and colorfull compared to the fast foodism of our times. But is this really so, or are we just getting old? I don't wanna be on that "In former times, everything was better" train...
I don't really have time to argue about this either so I'm sorry I brought it up.
But I don't think your point - which I agree with - really addresses mine. I don't remember anyone ever arguing that there is less and less variety in rap (fuck, in music) than there used to be.
Are there white dudes who get some kind of perverse weird enjoyment from gangster rap? Absolutely. But I don't think that's characteristic of the people on this board who you and Gary are alluding to.
yeah, i remember watching sth like "Yo" on MTV and thinking about that it was at times really diverse and rich and colorfull compared to the fast foodism of our times. But is this really so, or are we just getting old? I don't wanna be on that "In former times, everything was better" train...
I don't think it's so much a matter of getting old (I'm sure it plays a role somewhere), and I like alot of new shit still, but on a whole I think the assembly line nature of rap right now is not a good thing. People will argue that since it's become more or less pop music that that's the way it goes, but that goes against everything the music was about from it's inception. Biting is ok as long as you get that paper.
It's dissapointing, but real life comes into play and fools gotta live so I understand. It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
I don't really see this today any more than I have in the past.
I don't think it's so much a matter of getting old (I'm sure it plays a role somewhere), and I like alot of new shit still, but on a whole I think the assembly line nature of rap right now is not a good thing. People will argue that since it's become more or less pop music that that's the way it goes, but that goes against everything the music was about from it's inception. Biting is ok as long as you get that paper.
It's dissapointing, but real life comes into play and fools gotta live so I understand. It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
I don't really have time to argue about this either so I'm sorry I brought it up.
But I don't think your point - which I agree with - really addresses mine. I don't remember anyone ever arguing that there is less and less variety in rap (fuck, in music) than there used to be.
Are there white dudes who get some kind of perverse weird enjoyment from gangster rap? Absolutely. But I don't think that's characteristic of the people on this board who you and Gary are alluding to.
That's right - I got way sidetracked. Somehow that shit was gonna all tie in ...but yeah, I don't think I was addressing every white dude on the board (maybe just Bsides? ). That thread brought up some interesting points and I think it comes down to me, personally, I would feel like I'm perpetrating if I were to roll around blasting crack rap all day cause that's just not me. I don't pump Rick Ross while I take my kids to school yahm? But hey, if it fills some need for some dude out there to listen to that by all means go ahead. I just think it looks fucking ridiculous when I pull up next to some Brad who's blasting thug shit. Hey, do you... I guess.
What actually happened to that party on Friday in Brooklyn? Still going?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
I don't really see this today any more than I have in the past.
please remove your stunna shades next time you watch MTV JAMS
Nah, I think Archaic is right. That's the nature of the music business on a whole.
Which is why I've always thought it as important to treat artists that work at least soemwhat effectively outside of the industry model - such as CVE, Labtekwon, NGOK, etc. - as just as vital as their corporate-sponsored counterparts.
It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
I don't really see this today any more than I have in the past.
please remove your stunna shades next time you watch MTV JAMS
Nah, I think Archaic is right. That's the nature of the music business on a whole.
Which is why I've always thought it as important to treat artists that work at least soemwhat effectively outside of the industry model - such as CVE, Labtekwon, NGOK, etc. - as just as vital as their corporate-sponsored counterparts.
I'll try to do my best to drop my 2 cents and not get caught up in the 10 page vortex, but Day I thought you meant the blueprint for hip-hop mainstream financial success which, for nearly the last decade or so has been come across as mobster/ gangster/ thuglike as possible as aim for platinum sales. I haven't really seen that subside so much but then again I'm not really as avid a follower if week-to-week hip-hop trends as others on this board might be.
I mean has the model really shifted that much as of late?
My sister got me a $60 gift cert. to TTLAB for Christmas; I thought it was cool as shit. But after reading all this, I'm not cool anymore. Life sucks. All I wanted was this.
People will argue that since it's become more or less pop music that that's the way it goes, but that goes against everything the music was about from it's inception.
Since I started using SoulStrut I've been saying that current rap = pop and getting dismissed as d-i-s-c-o-n-n-e-c-t-e-d, so ^this quote^ from a forumite with online-Kudos adds gravitas to the painfully obvious. Glad the penny has finally dropped. And I still don't rate Jay-Z as anything other than a opportunist biter with sh*t rhymes; he puts the Mc(Donalds) into MCing. So carry on dismissing.
OK, not a question, but a statement, begging for a legit response, that will go unchallenged.
Yes but you're targeting the wrong audience to answer that question.
I think everybody here abhors these sorts of parties and the mentality that surrounds them, yet you keep asking us why they happen. Like Faux is The Pumpsters booking agent or something.
While I can't speak for everybody, I know for a fact that most of the people who discuss new rap around here are well informed individuals who have been interested in hip hop for 10-20 years and genuinely recognize artists like Lil' Wayne, The Clipse and TI as some of the finest rappers of the new guard. The motive to listen to them stems not from irony or mocking but a love of great rapping.
It just so happens that some of these artists overlap with the interest of the cocaine rap is sooo funny crowd.
I don't know who bumped this thread, but this is some well spoken shit right here.
Comments
The tone I get from you (and others) is that it's not ok to like certain rap artists or records. That is, if you're white.
I don't know if that's your view of it, but that's what this seems to come back to - it's ok for a Black guy in the ghetto to like a certain record, but not ok for a white guy in a suit to like it. That guy has to have some legitimate reason (other than it just being good rap music).
I know a lot of white guys who like deep south porch guitar strumming blues records. I don't think they're constantly asked to justify their taste in blues, but I might be wrong.
Speak on it.
Is that clearer?
I have to say your argument is just too vague. I invite you, Day, Edpowers, or whoever else to be a bit more specific because it to me seems like a big old strawman. I don't know of anyone on this site who likes or dislikes something because of perceived authenticity or lack thereof. Well maybe B-Sides.
Not to get dragged into this topic yet again cause I got REAL WORLD MOVEZ TO MAKE SON, BUT...
1. Rap is out of balance right now. Period. Anyone who wants to argue that doesn't want to admit to the reality of it. These days you could NEVER have the variety in the music as we did growing up.
People have found a way to capitalize off the negative and I'm sure the white dudes who own the majority of the record labels profiting off this are laughing all the way to the bank and then some. Not only do they get paid, but the music and culture is also detrimental to the black community. It's a win/win situation for them.
2. I was gonna write a whole bunch of stuff about white folks/gangster shit, but I really don't have time to engage in that can of worms.
I understand this reasoning. Does this refer to times when you had a coexistence of various styles within the mainstream (Digital, JB's, NWA, and alot of other artists going on at the same time, but being significantly different)? Because on the surface you are right, the styles presentend within the mainstream used to be a lot richer. But i don't think there is less variety in the music nowadays. It is just not on the surface anymore, but there are still alot things going on. Rap was outa control ten years ago as well, but yeah, it's gotten worse in terms of corporate involvement. I got your point.
That's exactly what I meant.
And I'm not saying there's no variety out there, but no one's taking chances on a Digital Underground, De La, etc. of today because it's safer to go with the FORMULA THAT WORKS.
yeah, i remember watching sth like "Yo" on MTV and thinking about that it was at times really diverse and rich and colorfull compared to the fast foodism of our times. But is this really so, or are we just getting old? I don't wanna be on that "In former times, everything was better" train...
I don't really have time to argue about this either so I'm sorry I brought it up.
But I don't think your point - which I agree with - really addresses mine. I don't remember anyone ever arguing that there is less and less variety in rap (fuck, in music) than there used to be.
Are there white dudes who get some kind of perverse weird enjoyment from gangster rap? Absolutely. But I don't think that's characteristic of the people on this board who you and Gary are alluding to.
I don't think it's so much a matter of getting old (I'm sure it plays a role somewhere), and I like alot of new shit still, but on a whole I think the assembly line nature of rap right now is not a good thing. People will argue that since it's become more or less pop music that that's the way it goes, but that goes against everything the music was about from it's inception. Biting is ok as long as you get that paper.
It's dissapointing, but real life comes into play and fools gotta live so I understand. It just sucks that it's been shaped this way. Kick negative/hollow shit that sells or starve.
I don't really see this today any more than I have in the past.
truth
please remove your stunna shades next time you watch MTV JAMS
That thread brought up some interesting points and I think it comes down to me, personally, I would feel like I'm perpetrating if I were to roll around blasting crack rap all day cause that's just not me. I don't pump Rick Ross while I take my kids to school yahm? But hey, if it fills some need for some dude out there to listen to that by all means go ahead. I just think it looks fucking ridiculous when I pull up next to some Brad who's blasting thug shit.
Hey, do you... I guess.
Nah, I think Archaic is right. That's the nature of the music business on a whole.
Ok - no more getting sucked into this!
peace and have fun poking each other with sharp sticks
Which is why I've always thought it as important to treat artists that work at least soemwhat effectively outside of the industry model - such as CVE, Labtekwon, NGOK, etc. - as just as vital as their corporate-sponsored counterparts.
I'll try to do my best to drop my 2 cents and not get caught up in the 10 page vortex, but Day I thought you meant the blueprint for hip-hop mainstream financial success which, for nearly the last decade or so has been come across as mobster/ gangster/ thuglike as possible as aim for platinum sales. I haven't really seen that subside so much but then again I'm not really as avid a follower if week-to-week hip-hop trends as others on this board might be.
I mean has the model really shifted that much as of late?
i think it is intermitent at best. which is fine with me.
that said, the venue it is held at is a hangout of mine and usually has pretty decent dudes spinning there. such as the case tonight.
i find the instrumental for Hustlin to be extremely mind-expanding.
My sister got me a $60 gift cert. to TTLAB for Christmas; I thought it was cool as shit. But after reading all this, I'm not cool anymore. Life sucks. All I wanted was this.
Since I started using SoulStrut I've been saying that current rap = pop and getting dismissed as d-i-s-c-o-n-n-e-c-t-e-d, so ^this quote^ from a forumite with online-Kudos adds gravitas to the painfully obvious. Glad the penny has finally dropped. And I still don't rate Jay-Z as anything other than a opportunist biter with sh*t rhymes; he puts the Mc(Donalds) into MCing. So carry on dismissing.
I don't know who bumped this thread, but this is some well spoken shit right here.