Vnylst

bennyboybennyboy 538 Posts
edited October 2013 in Strut Central
Have been following this lot on FB, and seen plenty of updates, posts, chatter. Just got an email announcing their first Dig Announcement, which is essentially links to their FB etc.

Nice looking website here, lots of talk about their products. But I still have no fucking idea what is they are actually doing. Anybody know?

They will "breathe new life into the beloved pastime of collecting and sharing records", apparently. But I can't fathom how.

Anyone?
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  Comments


  • mrmatthewmrmatthew 1,575 Posts
    Looks like they are basically trying to kick-start funds to build what is essentially an updated Discogs or GEMM mixed with SS or Waxi - with a lot more bells and whistles that people may or may not use.
    Can't say im hating the etched mini-crate they are offering as an incentive to invest, though

  • if my records sound like the beginning of that video, i'd be pissed as hell.



    basically it seems that it will be a social networking + price guide+market+store locator app


    facebook for records+collectorsfrenzy/popsike+ebay/discogs+vinyl district.

    not sure if this will take off or not.

  • Ah. Should have watched the Kickstarter video.

    Basically, it's discogs with a social media element. Ho hum.

  • you don't need $650K to make an app. I would know.

    also


  • Ha.

  • at least brix didn't e-beg for "investors".

    i checked the description for this new site/app or whatever and it reads like a bunch of convoluted bullshit, just a bunch of buzz words strung together. seriously, i think this is a scam. i'd sooner send cash to a wycliffe "charity", at least that way i would know who my money was going to.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,896 Posts
    herbacios tweed said:
    you don't need $650K to make an app. I would know.

    also


    HAHAHA. How did I never see this edit done back in 2008? The first soulstrut almost brought the drink out of my nose.

  • For a site that literally says "We need your help", they're not really forthcoming with how they need my help.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    DOR said:
    herbacios tweed said:
    you don't need $650K to make an app. I would know.

    also


    HAHAHA. How did I never see this edit done back in 2008? The first soulstrut almost brought the drink out of my nose.

    This is so good.
    Guy can't say "enthusiasts".

    B/w

    Rap hands lite

  • waxjunkywaxjunky 1,850 Posts
    skel said:
    DOR said:
    herbacios tweed said:
    you don't need $650K to make an app. I would know.

    also


    HAHAHA. How did I never see this edit done back in 2008? The first soulstrut almost brought the drink out of my nose.

    This is so good.
    Guy can't say "enthusiasts".

    B/w

    Rap hands lite

    I don't have any questions or comments, but I do still have some concerns.

  • JimsterJimster Cruffiton.etsy.com 6,885 Posts
    Rap hands lite

    Hands are always unwelcome baggage in a pre-zen-tation. The options are limited and hackneyed. The Dave "Let-me-make-this-quite-clear" mini-Karate chop. The DeNiro shrug. It's rude to point. The passive-aggressive fist-pound. Arm-folding is negative body language. Arms behind back is Len Ganley territory.

    I go with the interlocked fingers clasp, or a fake sling to evoke subconscious Napoleonic or Nelsonesque gravitas.

    YMMV.

  • osandiosandi 25 Posts
    Peace,

    Rather than responding to everyone's take on what we've built, I'd like to use this opportunity more constructively by opening up the floor to answer questions.

    Since there seems to be a diverse range of (mostly negative) opinions, perhaps you'd like to ask me directly about the aspirations we have as a company and what problem we aim to solve by the app we propose.

    Regards,

    Osandi
    Founder | CEO | Designer
    Vnylst Inc.
    Attached files

  • uttersutters 321 Posts
    Ok I'll go first

    WHAT THE HELL IS IT?

    At the moment it seems you are selling crates and 45 adapters

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    utters said:
    WHAT THE HELL IS IT?

    And what does it offer that doesn't already exist?

    And why does it cost 650K?

  • :hayek:

    Yep, as Utters says above - what is it? I started the thread as even though I follow via FB etc, I honestly didn't understand what it actually is.

    Kickstarter page did make it a bit clearer, but still a bit of a fog as to what you are actually doing.

  • ostost Montreal 1,375 Posts
    edit:
    In what ways is this different from Discogs?
    May I suggest your programmers/developers pay special attention to information retrieval which is possibly one of the biggest weaknesses I seem to encounter with websites these days.
    Additionaly, I know the name is vnylst but are you excluding cassettes & cds from being sold?

  • osandiosandi 25 Posts
    Peace,

    Thanks for the question and for passing the original post.

    Personally, I think of Discogs as a way for vendors to buy and sell records to another. However, I personally find it a bit convoluted. I say that from the perspective of someone who has supported customers as a Mac Genius for over four years, performed as a UX researcher and have been designing user experiences for the last three; it's a bit daunting and unapproachble even for someone like myself who would probably fit the profile of "power user" and "early adopter." If you're new to records and accustomed to using native apps, you may agree. But if you've been using Discogs, it probably meets most of your needs.

    But let's think about the experience for all the stakeholders in the exchange of a recording for a moment.

    I've yet to meet an artist who referred a fan to Discogs to purchase a record. A lot of the streaming services like to say that the exposure (by social discovery) from their site helps create sustainable careers for musicians, however when you get into the breakdown for the streaming of a song or an entire album, artists aren't really on the benefiting end of this immediate and often free access to their music.

    This is especially important for new and emerging artists who may feel that the way to survive in the game is to adopt these services under this expectation, which is what Thom Yorke has argued in said posts (http://dig.vnyl.st/1amPyqw).

    The other factor to consider is the record store. Take Big Al of The Record Barn for example (He adds, "Everyone thinks selling records is easy. But there's rent, phone bills, insurance and all kinds of stuff involved. You just gotta hope that every month you make enough money to pay the bills. -- link: http://dig.vnyl.st/18ZE90R)

    He closed his doors this year and has struggled most of the last ten with over hundreds of thousands of records that needed to find a new home before closing his doors. Whatever doesn't make it into storage is attempted to be sold for much less than their worth or in bulk like this particular record store's inventory posted for sale on eBay (http://dig.vnyl.st/18ZB8xw).

    If Discogs was so effective, why aren't they used by artists and record store owners? Well, it's not designed to (no offense to anyone who works there or uses their service. Discogs started out as a database, a social commerce site secondary.

    We propose a native app that benefits every touch point in the exchange of a recording: one that allows for quickly cataloging records (whether or not for sale) without having to be limited to a desktop computer. We're working to bring bar code scanning and optical character (image) recognition to our app so to aid in the process of appraisal, adding items to your wish list or quickly cataloging them to your collection for a prospective owner. If say Big Al or our other collector-store owners had an ongoing catalogs (or solution that made the process less painful and mobile), matched with a real time pricing and POS solution, perhaps these community stores could stay open, no matter how much their respective community changes (e.g. gentrification).

    The way that your collection is cataloged at home should mirror your collection in app. This is why we allow you to catalog your collection in crates (or groups). In the instance you'd like to sell more than one record at a time or simply feature a collection of items as you have curated them, you can make them shareable and discoverable (for namesake or for commerce).

    If you're new to collecting, you may find this to be a better way of stumbling across gems, just as a record store merchant would introduce you to artists, labels, instruments used in the recording, recording studio the music was made, or just factoids that you may find consistent throughout titles.

    I have also found searching Discogs to be a pick through the litter (to address your point on "data retrieval"). It's the reason our data model is perhaps the most critical facet of our product design (not just a re-skin of an existing product).

    We're focusing on a vinyl only platform, with a curatorial slant--free from ads and free to download. We're also exploring a subscription model vs. strictly fee based.

    Sure, much of this wasn't thoroughly explained in our video (which came together three hours before the call time), but I plan speak to these points soon and welcome further discussion here or at our blog: vrse.vnylst.com.

    Regards,

    Osandi
    Founder | CEO | Designer

  • Just to push back on your critique of discogs a little bit, as a record store owner, an artist, and a collector I think it is a fantastic site (although not without its flaws). I use it to sell records often, it's been remarkably effective in cataloging my own (obscure) recordings with little to none of my own input (i.e. through other contributors), and I continue to research, catalog, and purchase plenty of wax through their dual database-marketplace functionality. That said, they have no mobile site and no app, and so it's a pain to use on the phone or tablet. There are many tweaks yet to be made to their overall platform. It's not a place where you'd put your new music proactively (like, say, Bandcamp or Soundcloud). But it's by far - BY FAR - the easiest, least time consuming, cheapest and thus most profitable way to sell records online (with some very particular exceptions), and is overall a formidable resource for any collector. I haven't checked out Vnylst (literally heard about this today when I saw a flyer in the shop here) but I think if you're going to use discogs as a point of reference, you can't do it in the context of Big Al. That's a whole 'nother thang. There are people doing solid business on discogs, and a critical mass of customers. There is a shit ton of useful information on that site, not to mention price databases like popsike or collectorsfrenzy. How are you going to populate your site, in order to draw people off those resources (not to mention sites like eBay [for selling] or Bandcamp/Soundcloud/Facebook)?

  • osandiosandi 25 Posts
    The question was "How are you different than Discogs?"

    "That said, they have no mobile site and no app, and so it's a pain to use on the phone or tablet."

    Precisely and I don't disagree nor did I speak to any degree that Discogs is NOT effective at allowing for commerce. But to your point, Big Al's case is a whole "nother thang", however is a problem that we're designing a solution for. When these stores go out of business, the stories and knowledge of these collectors go with them (and are with those who visited them). So in essence, a link to the chain of a record's oral history is broken. In terms of preserving the tradition, this is a critical problem that technology can bridge so to educate a younger generation of collectors and the like. It's not a replacement for the record store experience, however may help a lot of people transition into "crate digging" and keep some folk fed along the way.

    And before I'm taken out of context, I never said Discogs wasn't a resource for learning about or discovering new music. It will be what people make of it, no different than anything else in life.

    I've rarely stumbled across work on Soundcloud and purchased the record (mostly because I prefer mixes when using the service).

    My question for record store owners is how will you adapt to social circumstance of the rising price of rent, or the gentrification of your neighborhood, therefore change of customers? How do commuting visitors discover your stores and collections? Do you use yelp? How has that had an impact on your business? If you currently use social media, how does it create value for you? Is it measurable? Where are you analytics to back the time you spend using these platforms? Is it worth knowing about recording trends? How do trends influence what you carry in store?

    This is on the forefront of my mind when it comes to providing a service worth coming back to. Again, free from ads and to download. This wouldn't be limited to mobile platforms-web, android and iPad are on our milestones list as we are able to successfully build a viable (meaningful) product.

    "How are you going to populate your site, in order to draw people off those resources (not to mention sites like eBay [for selling] or Bandcamp/Soundcloud/Facebook)?"

    How do most companies create adoption? The key for me as the founder and CEO (as it should be for leadership of early phase ventures) is to solve a problem (a mobile solution for quickly vetting out our database and partnering with 3rd party music API designers--we're currently working with several), listen to our customers, push improvements continuously, and continue supporting my team, and ensure we have funding in place so to not fold before having a chance to make an impact.

    All of my developers / collaborators have shown up on their free time, which is why we created a crowdfunding site where our products can be owned so to afford their time on a more consistent basis (launch.vnylst.com). We've gotten a lot of feedback on it, especially the amount we're seeking (please factor in the cost to continue developing, produce, ship, cover fees and costs, pay a team of professional developers, to mention provide support for our customers before assuming that the entire $650K would be dissolved into a few people's salaries), and require every cent to do this the right way for a duration of time.

    Something that perhaps isn't measurable by any data point or analytics is that this coagulation of the most meaningful experiences in my life of thirty five years. This isn't verbiage, but Vnylst is the summation of having worked at a publishing company, recording studio, record label, experience at Apple, Square and helping other companies add value to their customers as a ux designer. I've vested thousands of hours and committed my own finances to everything you see from Vnylst.

    We make products for record collectors that I personally love and want to own. I've never really been into brands, even the ones I've worked for, because I mostly took jobs as a means to learn from hands-on experience. I truly love Vnylst, because it's for people I have the greatest respect for (e.g. DJs, archivists, artists, local record store owners, and mostly everyone in the artistic industry food chain).

    It hasn't been easy, nor do I anticipate a walk in the park, even with funding. But Vnylst is my life and is something I obsess over twelve hours a day. It's the results of a lot of reflection, thinking, sharing and not being afraid of failure.

    Osandi

    Founder | CEO | Designer
    Vnylst, Inc.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    :hayek:

    That was clear as mud, but it covered the ground.

  • so it's discogs given the ooze and turned into super shredder a la TMNT 2.

  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    Osandi,

    You're an excellent salesman, your passion comes through in your words, and you sound like a polished pro with all the industry jargon used. I do wish discogs had an app, or was mobile-friendly, but I can't see vynlst adding much value to the landscape of the used record sales world based on what you've said above. At least not enough for this to be a successful venture--but maybe I'm missing something?

    Also, with no ads, and a no cost to consumer app--how do you intend to monetize?

  • Not to be a negative nelly, but the big al thing threw me for a loop. I spent a lot of time there and can't understand how an app could save that place. He's had going out of business sales for at least a decade. And I don't imagine vnylst specializes in things like $20 rinked copies of Thriller.

    Are you saying that he may have had more success if people were aware of everything he had, like the good stuff was cataloged and able to reach the right people?

  • ostost Montreal 1,375 Posts
    I think there is a market for this despite the fact that I'm quite happy with discogs (except for the poor grading which I believe to be partly due to the limited grading scale). And it seems like vnylst will likely be adopted by quite a few people. The possibility to scan a record's bar code or catalog number, & to get details about an item, such as average price & so forth, on your mobile device could be very useful to a lot of people. I can't believe Discogs hasn't already gotten into this. IMO most of the popular information and communication technologies out there such as twitter, snapchat, & so forth are quite pointless, yet they're valued at millions if not billions of dollars & are quite popular. Not to say that vnylst is in that category. What I'm trying to say is that it's difficult to determine what will or will not work. But I do know that with all the fetishization of vinyl that goes on and people's unhealthy need for these technologies, this may very well work. Even if only a few million people start using it that's pretty good. At this point, I don't think we've seen enough to make a call.

  • ostost Montreal 1,375 Posts
    BTW,

    herbacios tweed said:
    you don't need $650K to make an app. I would know.

  • francois parkerfrancois parker formerly know as Parkz. 125 Posts
    I've seen record shops embrace Discogs and as a result are far healthier states due to listing their stock on Discogs, I've seen shops that price by Discogs, and shops that put nearly all their new stock on discogs rather than on the shops shelf, so I don't understand the bit about Discogs not being great for shops. I don't know what could be done to make it easier/better for ( used) record shops who use discogs as those who embrace it seem to be doing just fine.

    I hope you guys do get this new platform right though, I like the idea of the social networking factor based around the love of vinyl (most message boards are ticking over at best these days) I get a lot of downtime in work so something like this would be right up my street (though you haven't given much in the way of details on the social/interactive part of your project).

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    ost said:
    discogs (except for the poor grading which I believe to be partly due to the limited grading scale).

    When I first started selling at discogs each grade had a detailed description that popped up every time I graded a record to sell.
    The grading scale I had always used was different, but I was forced to use theirs as was everyone else.
    I thought this was a good thing because (in theory) everyone meant the same thing when the said VG+.
    Now, best I can tell, there is no description of what the grades mean anywhere on the site.

  • uttersutters 321 Posts
    Think you'd make a great politician Osandi

    I too have no problem with discogs... Love it for buying vinyl and the only thing that's missing for me is an app, where you could search te database and with one click see the average selling price

    If Vinylst could be a great looking app with social networking faculties (see how thriving the vinyl community is on IG for example) and somehow act as a front end for the existing discogs/popsike/collector's frenzy databases... Then, you'd have a monster on your hands!

  • I can't believe Discogs hasn't already gotten into this.
    I do wish discogs had an app, or was mobile-friendly

    Everybody knows these apps, right?

    Crate Digger being the original (non affiliated) discogs app:

    https://itunes.apple.com/app/crate-digger/id408824579?mt=8

    And now there's a new, improved (non affiliated) discogs app - Milk Crate, which looks great, works well, and can search the marketplace. I likes.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/milkcrate/id649659128?mt=8

  • osandiosandi 25 Posts
    Cool bro.
    Attached files
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