so brian, what's your take on the living in the big city? if i recall, you announced you were moving there and no one, including me, believed that was really going to happen. guess you showed us doubters.
b/w
when are we going to get the re-formed talking heads? aren't they ripe for a cash-in about now?
honestly, I work so much (and early too) that I rarely go out during the week and really feel like I am missing out on a lot because of that. me and the lady go out during the weekend but I don't know, doesn't seem the same. i'm moving in with her so that will save on the commute time and hopefully give me more time to go out? harlem probably temporary, she needs to save money and i don't really care where i live as long as the commute isn't hellish and i can sleep.
so brian, what's your take on the living in the big city? if i recall, you announced you were moving there and no one, including me, believed that was really going to happen. guess you showed us doubters.?
I told him to look Uptown from jump.
cousin had an extra bedroom for 1100; couldn't turn that down. forget how much rent is at the new spot but still relatively cheap. thinking about buying a place once my girl is done with her student loans but we'll see
it's an easy strawman to blame it on the financial industry. Wall Street has been here. That's not the reason for lacking creativity.
it's not entirely to blame, but I know student loans fucked a whole lot of people into giving up whatever dreams they had in order to pay them down. I went to college in NYC, and many highly creative and intelligent friends (not even necessarily of the artsy variety) got jobs in finance straight out of school just so they could pay their loans. Within my field of work (filmmaking) I know a number of people who took up bullshit work on reality tv and things like that because they couldn't pay the bills working on more exciting projects. I remember one girl I hired as an assistant editor on a doc once, she was super excited to be working on what would've been her first big project, but two weeks into it she told me she'd been offered a crappy full-time job on the Ricki Lake Show and she had to take it because she had over 100K in student loans to pay off. That shit can kill whatever impulses one might have for taking risks in any line of work. The only thing that kept me from whoring myself out completely was the fact that I lucked out and had a cheap apartment, where I spent almost 10 years paying $600/month on rent. It may not be entirely the financial industry's fault (although they feed a lot of these problems), but I think there's a very direct relationship between the costs of living in a place like NYC and the creative risks people are willing to take.
Look at any area of commerce in NYC (including the "cool" ones like mine!) and I guarantee you, weak shit is at an all time high.
do u not like artisanal pickles and old timey sodas?
also, David Byrne wondering if he should move up the Hudson just proves he's getting old. Maybe he's just running out of friends in the NYC art world.
all I'm saying is that the financial industry is not the only thing driving rents in this city. student loans are absolutely a good point, but the kids coming to New York City to attend college at exorbitant tuition rates are absolutely part of the problem! ha. me included.
I agree, that's a(nother) huge issue that we face and it's not limited to NYC.
i mean, im not really a hyper cosmopolitan dude, but i like to be 10-15 minutes from it. i am what is helping kill toronto. it used to be me living in the core but I gave it up in lieu of a backyard and 3 parking spots. 95% of the people moving in in my place appear to be 25-35 year olds hell bent on staying 21 forever.
There's no easy answer to this. The only constant sure thing in New York is change.
Basically this.
The thing is, I can totally accept the transformation of different architecture/culture in said neighborhoods - but what I think is of concern is that the normal churn that this city goes through each year to augment the "actual/real" New Yorkers, seems to be moving in a more monotonous manner these days. Young/energetic/hungry kid from [insert state] moves here, older/worn-out/yuppie living in [insert trendy borough] moves out.
But these days, not sure how much the hungry/energetic kids are moving into NYC with the same gusto. Since I am closer to the old guy these days, I may be just out-of-the-loop, but I do wonder if the lack of even semi-affordable housing plays a role. Or perhaps its an industry thing....15 years ago some kid moves up here with a journalism degree and gets a job working for a magazine/publisher/record label - but now those industries are dealing with huge transformations to their economic model. Not to play the Wall Street boogie man (especially since I work at one of them), but finance/law & technology seem to be the main drivers in this city these days (beside real estate). Media still is huge, but probably to a much lesser extent then 15-20yrs ago. The service industry is obviously still alive and kicking - but that model requires a cost of living that makes sense, and I am not sure NYC offers that anywhere like it used to.
So yeah, no easy answer, and since I am probably part of the problem - I'm not really trying to get too involved in this dispute - but I do see where David Bryne is coming from. Even in my old age I still bemoan the "lack of grit" I saw even just 8-9 years ago, let alone those of you who were living here in the 90's.
Also, not to throw more gas on the fire to this discussion - but there is a lot to be said about how just how much the real estate market changes the landscape, viability and culture of this city.
You can bemoan it all you want, but ten years ago you could live it a place like Williamsburg (which typically was considered 1-3 subway stops away from city) for a decent rent -- now you gotta live like 8-10 stops out to get the same price. And aside from some pockets, not sure there is much in Manhattan that is affordable these days. Queens still has good deals, but I know LIC and Astoria rents are getting higher
Point being, a lot of the exciting people who would move to NYC back in the days did so because they wanted to live IN NYC. Not sure if that demand still exists if the only place you can afford is Lefferts Gardens, Jersey City or Middle Village. Not knocking those neighborhoods - but the days of moving to the city with a few grand in your pocket and finding some apartment in the E. Village seem to be fewer and fewer.
Good point about the student loan payments a few of you made - I am sure that is one hell of a burden that a lot of kids are dealing with these days.
Nobody goes there any more, too crowded.
Nobody lives there any more, too expensive.
Remember when there were only New Yorkers in NYC?
I remember 20 years ago when all the people were young and stayed out all night like me, now everyone is old and boring.
Any city for a big part depends on new people moving there and who bring new ideas and do exciting shit. The problem is that the kids who can afford to move to NYC these days are mostly all squares. I get to visit various metropolitan cities all over the world every year and even when leaving the bang for buck ratio completely out of it, there's hardly any other city its size that's as over-regulated and painfully boring as NYC. But of course if you're too busy to sleep, commute, work, commute and sleep you won't notice. Only constant thing is change -for the worse.
The problem is that the kids who can afford to move to NYC these days are mostly all squares.
Real Talk.
A little off topic but I was anticipating a creative surge in NYC after 9-11.
Whether it be a musical response, or some multi-media reflex. Or maybe I'm old and was looking for some new "Punk" attitude to emerge.
Did I miss something?
My Center hosts the Columbia MFA show. These kids arent the desperate DYI cats of yesteryear.
It takes a alot of money to rock that program and most are rich kids just fuckin' around, burn in they parents money.
There's an Art Industry that funnels the talent right into the gallery/museum/grant game. The Art is still being made but under different conditions. The money & culture pool from 70's Soho and 80's East Village squeezed out some other shit.
It is what it is.
I just babysat my buddies kids last weekend. He and his wife left their Westchester home at 11pm to go to the Meat Packing District. He was like "I dunno Dave, it somewhere on Gansevoort or whatever". They are out of the loop on that end of the game, so i just eye-rolled that they would even hit up a place like that. When he got to the door the guard wouldnt let him(no dudes protocol) in until the wife showed up.
I told him we are both too old and too seasoned NYC cats to even deal w/ shit like that. Let your Jersey friends chase that bullshit.
I think there is a huge segment of this city that was raised in the suburbs. People who grew up in cul-de-sacs that have no idea how to live in a city, and expect the city to morph to their standards. If you grew up in an apartment building, you walk around like you would expect your upstairs neighbor to walk around. Tyler and Emily from Columbus, Ohio moved to 68th and Lexington in the beer-pong district right after finishing college, stomp around like human dildos, and complain at every movement of their upstairs neighbors. They are also the people that get on the train before people walk off, and then stand in front of the doors and act all ass-hurt when you squeeze by them to get in an otherwise empty car. They walk out into traffic without looking. They take leisurely Sunday rides on their citi-bikes while talking on the phone. They come to full stops at the top of a busy stairway or sidewalk with a loose $20 bill hanging out of their pocket. Things that have been ingrained in some of us our whole lives, and are viewed as common knowledge, bounce off oblivious skulls with no hope of ever sinking in.
this is totally true...
a friend of mine lives in harlem and she was telling me a story about how a bunch of white women at the local dog run called the cops on a middle class looking black teenager b/c he refused to leave the dog run after they said his mid sized dog was aggressive... his defense to them was he had been coming to that dog run forever and no one had ever had a prob w/ his dog before and they had no right to ask him to leave... they called the cops and the cop made him leave... :( which is to say, welcome to nyc 2013, where locals are more and more outnumbered by transplants who refuse to fit in and want to remake the city in their image...
on a different and more SS related note, sometimes i feel like every time i DJ and play "no, no, no" or "set it off" (the house tune, not kane) or "apache" or jadakiss or dipset and ignore requests for wack middle american pop music, i feel like am fighting a musical gentrification war... in the sense that if i am djing for a roomful of mostly native new yorkers, those tunes kill it, but if it's mostly transplants, it's crickets...
Tl;dr but if Byrne doesnt see the inherent fuckery of a bikeshare program emblazoned all over with Citigroup logos and limited to the rich parts of town then I don't even know.
seriously, in battery park city, there are every 2 blocks and none in queens or the bronx... they are made only for tourists to ride across the brooklyn bridge to dumbo and wall street dudes to ride from murray hill to work...
i have ridden these bikes in montreal, toronto, boston, and DC, and as far as i know, the only place they have a corp name as opposed to one reflecting the city itself is NYC... wack...
a friend of mine lives in harlem and she was telling me a story about how a bunch of white women at the local dog run called the cops on a middle class looking black teenager b/c he refused to leave the dog run after they said his mid sized dog was aggressive... his defense to them was he had been coming to that dog run forever and no one had ever had a prob w/ his dog before and they had no right to ask him to leave... they called the cops and the cop made him leave... :(
This is fucked. Marcus Garvey Park? I'm out there every day with my kid and totally refuse to abide that kind of behavior. I have cursed these idiots out in my building and more recently have been using my leverage to weed this bullshit out of my daughter's daycare too. Man, everything ain't for everybody...
Tl;dr but if Byrne doesnt see the inherent fuckery of a bikeshare program emblazoned all over with Citigroup logos and limited to the rich parts of town then I don't even know.
seriously, in battery park city, there are every 2 blocks and none in queens or the bronx... they are made only for tourists to ride across the brooklyn bridge to dumbo and wall street dudes to ride from murray hill to work...
My Center hosts the Columbia MFA show. These kids arent the desperate DYI cats of yesteryear.
It takes a alot of money to rock that program and most are rich kids just fuckin' around, burn in they parents money.
There's an Art Industry that funnels the talent right into the gallery/museum/grant game..
not sure if this is the same space as it was 2006 or so. big dingy cool elevator work/loft space in the 140's west side. I went to that Columbia MFA graduate show at least twice. one year this young woman who had shown at Anton Kern was handng out photocopied flyers at the door that said "Thank You Mom & Dad". at the time it irritated me but now i appreciate her kooky honesty.
re: the inept Byrne piece, a really amazing 16mm avant garde filmmaker once told me it's not true artist vs. scenester vs. gentrifier it's about what you put into a neighborhood vs what you take out.
My Center hosts the Columbia MFA show. These kids arent the desperate DYI cats of yesteryear.
It takes a alot of money to rock that program and most are rich kids just fuckin' around, burn in they parents money.
There's an Art Industry that funnels the talent right into the gallery/museum/grant game..
not sure if this is the same space as it was 2006 or so. big dingy cool elevator work/loft space in the 140's west side. I went to that Columbia MFA graduate show at least twice. one year this young woman who had shown at Anton Kern was handng out photocopied flyers at the door that said "Thank You Mom & Dad". at the time it irritated me but now i appreciate her kooky honesty.
Nah..they left that space for where im at in Dutch Kills.
The problem is that the kids who can afford to move to NYC these days are mostly all squares.
It's not just that they're squares, it's that their whole existence is subsidized by their parents. Their creativity is confined to instagramming their tasting menu dishes.
They aren't driven or inspired, except to seek greater comfort for themselves.
Comments
it's not entirely to blame, but I know student loans fucked a whole lot of people into giving up whatever dreams they had in order to pay them down. I went to college in NYC, and many highly creative and intelligent friends (not even necessarily of the artsy variety) got jobs in finance straight out of school just so they could pay their loans. Within my field of work (filmmaking) I know a number of people who took up bullshit work on reality tv and things like that because they couldn't pay the bills working on more exciting projects. I remember one girl I hired as an assistant editor on a doc once, she was super excited to be working on what would've been her first big project, but two weeks into it she told me she'd been offered a crappy full-time job on the Ricki Lake Show and she had to take it because she had over 100K in student loans to pay off. That shit can kill whatever impulses one might have for taking risks in any line of work. The only thing that kept me from whoring myself out completely was the fact that I lucked out and had a cheap apartment, where I spent almost 10 years paying $600/month on rent. It may not be entirely the financial industry's fault (although they feed a lot of these problems), but I think there's a very direct relationship between the costs of living in a place like NYC and the creative risks people are willing to take.
do u not like artisanal pickles and old timey sodas?
also, David Byrne wondering if he should move up the Hudson just proves he's getting old. Maybe he's just running out of friends in the NYC art world.
I agree, that's a(nother) huge issue that we face and it's not limited to NYC.
i mean, im not really a hyper cosmopolitan dude, but i like to be 10-15 minutes from it. i am what is helping kill toronto. it used to be me living in the core but I gave it up in lieu of a backyard and 3 parking spots. 95% of the people moving in in my place appear to be 25-35 year olds hell bent on staying 21 forever.
Basically this.
The thing is, I can totally accept the transformation of different architecture/culture in said neighborhoods - but what I think is of concern is that the normal churn that this city goes through each year to augment the "actual/real" New Yorkers, seems to be moving in a more monotonous manner these days. Young/energetic/hungry kid from [insert state] moves here, older/worn-out/yuppie living in [insert trendy borough] moves out.
But these days, not sure how much the hungry/energetic kids are moving into NYC with the same gusto. Since I am closer to the old guy these days, I may be just out-of-the-loop, but I do wonder if the lack of even semi-affordable housing plays a role. Or perhaps its an industry thing....15 years ago some kid moves up here with a journalism degree and gets a job working for a magazine/publisher/record label - but now those industries are dealing with huge transformations to their economic model. Not to play the Wall Street boogie man (especially since I work at one of them), but finance/law & technology seem to be the main drivers in this city these days (beside real estate). Media still is huge, but probably to a much lesser extent then 15-20yrs ago. The service industry is obviously still alive and kicking - but that model requires a cost of living that makes sense, and I am not sure NYC offers that anywhere like it used to.
So yeah, no easy answer, and since I am probably part of the problem - I'm not really trying to get too involved in this dispute - but I do see where David Bryne is coming from. Even in my old age I still bemoan the "lack of grit" I saw even just 8-9 years ago, let alone those of you who were living here in the 90's.
Nobody lives there any more, too expensive.
Remember when there were only New Yorkers in NYC?
I remember 20 years ago when all the people were young and stayed out all night like me, now everyone is old and boring.
You can bemoan it all you want, but ten years ago you could live it a place like Williamsburg (which typically was considered 1-3 subway stops away from city) for a decent rent -- now you gotta live like 8-10 stops out to get the same price. And aside from some pockets, not sure there is much in Manhattan that is affordable these days. Queens still has good deals, but I know LIC and Astoria rents are getting higher
Point being, a lot of the exciting people who would move to NYC back in the days did so because they wanted to live IN NYC. Not sure if that demand still exists if the only place you can afford is Lefferts Gardens, Jersey City or Middle Village. Not knocking those neighborhoods - but the days of moving to the city with a few grand in your pocket and finding some apartment in the E. Village seem to be fewer and fewer.
Good point about the student loan payments a few of you made - I am sure that is one hell of a burden that a lot of kids are dealing with these days.
But you can go through life not hearing them often at all, if you so choose
Any city for a big part depends on new people moving there and who bring new ideas and do exciting shit. The problem is that the kids who can afford to move to NYC these days are mostly all squares. I get to visit various metropolitan cities all over the world every year and even when leaving the bang for buck ratio completely out of it, there's hardly any other city its size that's as over-regulated and painfully boring as NYC. But of course if you're too busy to sleep, commute, work, commute and sleep you won't notice. Only constant thing is change -for the worse.
Real Talk.
A little off topic but I was anticipating a creative surge in NYC after 9-11.
Whether it be a musical response, or some multi-media reflex. Or maybe I'm old and was looking for some new "Punk" attitude to emerge.
Did I miss something?
My Center hosts the Columbia MFA show. These kids arent the desperate DYI cats of yesteryear.
It takes a alot of money to rock that program and most are rich kids just fuckin' around, burn in they parents money.
There's an Art Industry that funnels the talent right into the gallery/museum/grant game. The Art is still being made but under different conditions. The money & culture pool from 70's Soho and 80's East Village squeezed out some other shit.
It is what it is.
I just babysat my buddies kids last weekend. He and his wife left their Westchester home at 11pm to go to the Meat Packing District. He was like "I dunno Dave, it somewhere on Gansevoort or whatever". They are out of the loop on that end of the game, so i just eye-rolled that they would even hit up a place like that. When he got to the door the guard wouldnt let him(no dudes protocol) in until the wife showed up.
I told him we are both too old and too seasoned NYC cats to even deal w/ shit like that. Let your Jersey friends chase that bullshit.
Fuck that New York.
And I don't know what they pay for Donatello
this is totally true...
a friend of mine lives in harlem and she was telling me a story about how a bunch of white women at the local dog run called the cops on a middle class looking black teenager b/c he refused to leave the dog run after they said his mid sized dog was aggressive... his defense to them was he had been coming to that dog run forever and no one had ever had a prob w/ his dog before and they had no right to ask him to leave... they called the cops and the cop made him leave... :( which is to say, welcome to nyc 2013, where locals are more and more outnumbered by transplants who refuse to fit in and want to remake the city in their image...
on a different and more SS related note, sometimes i feel like every time i DJ and play "no, no, no" or "set it off" (the house tune, not kane) or "apache" or jadakiss or dipset and ignore requests for wack middle american pop music, i feel like am fighting a musical gentrification war... in the sense that if i am djing for a roomful of mostly native new yorkers, those tunes kill it, but if it's mostly transplants, it's crickets...
:face_melt:
Fairway > Whole Foods
seriously, in battery park city, there are every 2 blocks and none in queens or the bronx... they are made only for tourists to ride across the brooklyn bridge to dumbo and wall street dudes to ride from murray hill to work...
i have ridden these bikes in montreal, toronto, boston, and DC, and as far as i know, the only place they have a corp name as opposed to one reflecting the city itself is NYC... wack...
This is fucked. Marcus Garvey Park? I'm out there every day with my kid and totally refuse to abide that kind of behavior. I have cursed these idiots out in my building and more recently have been using my leverage to weed this bullshit out of my daughter's daycare too. Man, everything ain't for everybody...
There are none in Harlem. Prime market, too.
I shop at Fairway strictly. Since 1996 lugging cans of pomodoro up to Convent Ave.
No Doubt....that walk from the water is long as fuck. I'd take the bus sometimes..to and forth.
But ever since they opened up on 86th I go there way more often. The 4 line is faster for me and two blocks over.
Im curious what Columbia is gonna erect in couple of years over there. Fuckin mini city/campus extension.
not sure if this is the same space as it was 2006 or so. big dingy cool elevator work/loft space in the 140's west side. I went to that Columbia MFA graduate show at least twice. one year this young woman who had shown at Anton Kern was handng out photocopied flyers at the door that said "Thank You Mom & Dad". at the time it irritated me but now i appreciate her kooky honesty.
re: the inept Byrne piece, a really amazing 16mm avant garde filmmaker once told me it's not true artist vs. scenester vs. gentrifier it's about what you put into a neighborhood vs what you take out.
Nah..they left that space for where im at in Dutch Kills.
It's not just that they're squares, it's that their whole existence is subsidized by their parents. Their creativity is confined to instagramming their tasting menu dishes.
They aren't driven or inspired, except to seek greater comfort for themselves.