David Bryne = "New York has changed"

124

  Comments


  • asstroasstro 1,754 Posts
    I'm a native NY'er who did the reverse migration thing a couple of years ago. NYC now doesn't resemble the city I grew up in and I couldn't justify spending so much money to live someplace I don't like or even recognize anymore. I know so many other natives who are facing the same decision, especially people who have young families. Unless you are fortunate enough to have family who has owned property for years or inherit a rent-controlled apt it is a massive. soul-draining effort to raise kids in a decent neighborhood with good schools. It used to be that you could justify the struggle by looking at the great culture and diversity and everything else that the city provided, but with most of that stuff priced out of my life or just gone it just wasn't worth it to me.

  • "Making the city safe" is what people are more reluctant to talk about. Byrne doesn't address it at all. Drug laws, the clean hallways initiative, stop + frisk which is just one particular aspect.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,390 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    Flomotion said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    if you want rough edges I recommend Newark.

    I don't think the "not removed, just moved around" theory holds much water. Unless by "moved around" you mean "to other cities and states"

    I'm not sure people move away from their city that easily.

    I mean, this isn't mere conjecture. You can look it up for yourself if you're so inclined. I want to say maybe two years ago, there were a bunch of articles on this stuff, where people were moving to (Atlanta and the Poconos were pretty high on the list iirc), and whether that constituted a "reverse migration". But it's an actual thing. Sure, the poor in NYC are being pushed to the perimeter but the larger issue is that people are actually leaving as it becomes more and more expensive and untenable to live here under a certain income level.

    I'll take your word for it. In London it seems the only ones leaving are the recently arrived Eastern Europeans and the middle classes who've cashed in their houses and fled, to be replaced by more of the same. A third of Londoners live in social housing and they aren't going anywhere unless this govt. succeeds in flogging their houses and shipping them out, which it's trying hard to make a reality.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    batmon said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    batmon said:
    "hi....Fresh Direct.....yeah....account number 4926...thanx,......"

    "Yes, I 'd like -

    The three pack of Nutella
    A case of Coconut water, just see the brand on my last order, thank you.
    The Vanilla Soymilk thingy
    Uhhhhh......one box of Glad forceflex w/ the Freebreez scent
    The medium pack of dried cranberries
    Three large bags of Cool Ranch Doritos
    One tub of Phildelphia Cream Cheese
    One 12 pack of Ultra soft two-ply Charmin
    Uhhhhhhh.....One bag of autumn apples
    one box of Clementimes
    Three containers of the freshly squeezed Grapefruiy juice
    Two packages of Kale
    Half dozen Green/Red Bell peppers
    One bag of Bazmati rice
    One bag of Jasmine rice
    One Pre-cooked Organic chicken
    HONEY do u want anything im ordering NOW!

    The service door is on Frederick Douglass if the driver doesnt know, Thanx a Bunch! Toodles!"
    haahahaa

    ive used fresh direct maybe 2-3 times total. im just saying for non-perishable shit that I like to stock up on, im not being the dude with 15 trader joes bags on the train (whole foods bros would have uber service) and i'm not throwing money at a cab on top of more than likely paying more for identical shit

    I hear ya....just hazin' , you Uptown newbie.
    haha, no doubt. this has made me realize that I haven't really chosen where to live yet and sadly if I had to choose it would be close to work in midtown just to shorten commute. probably move again in like a year or two and would like to buy a place but can't justify paying nyc prices and would hate living in Connecticut or jersey for a million and one reasons. 0 idea what to do in that case.

    i was waiting in line at the rite-aid on 117th and some homeless dude asked me if i spoke English (all (half-) Asians are FOB) and then asked me if could throw a candy bar onto my checkout for him. first time for everything

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    this has made me realize that I haven't really chosen where to live yet and sadly if I had to choose it would be close to work in midtown just to shorten commute. probably move again in like a year or two and would like to buy a place but can't justify paying nyc prices and would hate living in Connecticut or jersey for a million and one reasons. 0 idea what to do in that case.

    How long is too long for a commute to u?

    If your subwayin' it from (lower)Harlem to mid-town, do you desire an even less travel time?

    Walking to work sounds like some super-lucky luxury shit.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    not sure, anything from 10-20 mins whether it's walking, subway, or cab. i would love to have all the commute time to catch up on reading but i'm not trying to wake up an hour earlier than i do now; usually get up around 4:30 or 5.

    i really gotta see how much i dig the new commute. i'm really determined to jog to work once i sort out some health shit but still need to be able to get to work in a reasonable amount of time. wouldn't care about any of this if i didn't work so early but still in the dues paying phase i guess.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    not sure, anything from 10-20 mins whether it's walking, subway, or cab. i would love to have all the commute time to catch up on reading but i'm not trying to wake up an hour earlier than i do now; usually get up around 4:30 or 5.

    i really gotta see how much i dig the new commute. i'm really determined to jog to work once i sort out some health shit but still need to be able to get to work in a reasonable amount of time. wouldn't care about any of this if i didn't work so early but still in the dues paying phase i guess.



    "Haff an hour to work?!....Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeit!"

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    GET OFF MY SIDEWALK!

    I never realized how good of a mayor Bloomberg is. Completely eliminated poverty in NYC.








    BTW - I'm only kidding.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    batmon said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    not sure, anything from 10-20 mins whether it's walking, subway, or cab. i would love to have all the commute time to catch up on reading but i'm not trying to wake up an hour earlier than i do now; usually get up around 4:30 or 5.

    i really gotta see how much i dig the new commute. i'm really determined to jog to work once i sort out some health shit but still need to be able to get to work in a reasonable amount of time. wouldn't care about any of this if i didn't work so early but still in the dues paying phase i guess.



    "Haff an hour to work?!....Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeit!"
    man, the only thing i value now is sleep. 20 mins extra sleep is huge for me. not trying to lengthen a commute that early

  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    The gravitational pull I felt from New York peaked right after 9-11. The seriousness of music and nightlife cultures became less isolationist, and actually took on a feeling of urgency. The "this might be our last night on earth" vibe was strong. People who lived through that day became helpful and caring. The classic New York selfishness gave way to a short-lived era of community and pride. The arms-folded smirk of indy rap turned into a smile on a dancefloor, and some buy-backs from a friendly bartender.

    The blackout in 2003 was the perfect barometer for this. The city turned into a giant party. Bodega owners were giving away food and beer. People with generators shared them with their neighbors. People were too busy having fun to rob and loot for the most part. If that same blackout were to occur today, we would have a much worse outcome.

    I'm not sure if others were drawn for the same reasons I was, but I was obviously not alone. In the 11 years I've been here, I went from paying $450 in rent to $1050. If I wanted anything to eat after 10pm, I was pretty much out-of-luck. Now I have tons of choices ranging from Balinese to what some might even consider half-decent Mexican. I used to get robbed by pack of kids on bikes. Now I get stopped and frisked by cops on bikes. I could buy a microwave from a junkie for $20, now that's how much I usually spend on lunch.

    I am enjoying all of the amenities gentrification has brought with it, but i was fine without them as well. One thing's for sure, I don't have to avoid gunfire outside my door the way I did in Richmond, VA or Washington DC, and that's completely fine by me.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    This is the same David Byrne who provided the soundtrack to which yuppiedom first flowered.

    He has something to answer for, IMHO.

  • And you may ask yourself
    Where is the L train?
    And you may tell yourself
    This is not my beautiful rent controlled apartment.

  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    " Where do you live if you're a young aspiring artists, writers or musicians?"

    baltimore




    ps

    there is still plenty of gully underground cool shit in and around nyc
    but you gotta know about it and it ain't broadcast or obvious

  • I have lived my entire 40+ years in Manhattan so I feel like the most qualified to tackle these weighty issues...aw fuck it. It's all been said/written on this thread and a 1000 other places already. 1% occupying previously unthinkable areas of NYC; chain stores ruining unique neighborhoods etc etc. It all comes down to cheap rent. When there were affordable (although horrible) places to live in NYC, creative people could live here or move here and make art/music/movies etc. that didn't have to immediately appeal to the mainstream for them to continue living here and creating. It isn't really possible anymore. Creative people either leave, or make more mainstream (lame) art in order to cash in. I'm not sure most of the people doing interesting things in the 60s/70s/80s even considered that they would make any real money, even though some did. They were artists who were compelled to create and were inspired by the vibe of NYC, as hard as it was to live here. And for those of you not raised here in the 70s, it was fucking hard. You left your house as a kid ASSUMING you would probably be mugged that day (although truth be told, I was only ever mugged twice in my life). As other people have remarked, the only constant is change, and although I agree the current version of NYC sucks ass in many ways, there are still lots of cool, interesting people here, although for me at least, most of them are in their 40s and 50s. Maybe that's the problem. This current generation just generally sucks.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    New York restaurant has no-talking menu



    Posted: Oct 09, 2013 5:24 AM CST Updated: Oct 09, 2013 7:15 AM CST

    The latest in New York City dining? Eating in silence.

    A restaurant in Brooklyn's trendy Greenpoint neighborhood is serving up a four-course meal of organic, locally-sourced food, but isn't allowing any chit-chat.

    'Eat' restaurant chef Nicholas Nauman says he was inspired to put on the occasional 'No Talking' affairs after spending time with Buddhist monks in India.

    Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/Story/23643866/nyc-menu-offers-something-new-silence#ixzz2hGut6R2Q

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    kala said:
    there is still plenty of gully underground cool shit in and around nyc
    but you gotta know about it and it ain't broadcast or obvious

    I'd say 'plenty' is a bit of an overstatement, at least compared to the 70's/80's.

    And what little there is, is way more broadcast than it was back before the innernets/social media etc.

    Still, there is some, and Byrne's viewpoint is at least a little bit of a product of his being disconnected to what undercurrents there are.

  • Horseleech said:
    Byrne's viewpoint is at least a little bit of a product of his being disconnected

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,901 Posts
    This touches on some of the changes I enjoy in NYC as of late. You may hate it. But I would LOVE my city to take some of these actions. Instead we have a mayor potentially running our town into the shitter.


  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    DocMcCoy said:

    I read this and have some disagreement. First off, Classical music, which he uses as his example of evolving culture, has always been steeped in a wealthy fan base. Secondly I think he mised Byrne's point completely and I would use a different analogy to make the point.

    Traditional blues music has always been based in a culture of poverty. The disadvantage of poverty and the lifestyle it affords is what shaped the very nature of the music. As blues "evolved" and attracted middle/upper class musicians the music didn't simply "evolve", it was for all intent and purposes ruined.

    I was there in NYC in the mid to late 70's when the cultural scene that Byrne contributed to was going on. It was anchored in a street smart, street level and hand to mouth culture(with a dash of Surburbanites go to Urban Art School thrown in). Across town Rap and Hip-Hop were rising from similar, if not even less affluent beginnings. These creative forces could not have happened in upper middle class surburban surroundings nor will they happen where these wealthy and entitled folks move to.

    The place of the well off has always been to support the arts, not create them.

  • ppadilhappadilha 2,241 Posts
    I moved out to NYC in 1998 to go to NYU, and during the first few weeks there I started looking for part time work. My roommate and I had decided we weren't getting office jobs, so he started applying for things like the mascot at the Central Park Zoo, while I ended up landing a job working for a breeder of exotic animals in DUMBO. The owner was that special category of finance people: the dude who sold his soul for some years, made a ton of dough, then got the fuck out in order to "pursue his dream." Over the years I met a bunch of people like this, most of them failed actor types. But this guy's dream was to become a breeder of exotic animals in the middle of New York City. He had a gigantic loft in one those industrial buildings in DUMBO, and that area back then was just starting to change into what it is now. The place had no hot water, no kitchen, and no shower, but he lived there with his girlfriend. They would bathe in a bucket, make lunch on a hotplate, and sleep on a lofted bed in a room they shared with four macaws. He assured me this was a temporary situation, and that they had bought a loft in Manhattan that was being renovated. I would go in a few days a week and my duties consisted of cleaning bird cages and feeding most of the animals. Their pet conure, Lil' Bit, would perch on my shirt collar and keep me company as I went about my duties. Beside the aforementioned macaws, there were parrots, parakeets, cockatoos, cockatiels, a pigeon they had rescued that was on the mend, ferrets, sugar gliders, fennec foxes, spring hares, pygmy deer, some sort of small sloth type animal, an insanely aggressive wild cat, and hundreds of siberian gerbils that were being bred to have a specific pattern on their fur (apparently that's like a signature in the animal breeder community). As winter crept in, the furnace in the building was on full blast and the windows had to be kept open, so I'd get a horrible cold from the temperature shocks. The job didn't last long because I couldn't handle being sick every week, but sales were also slow so they couldn't afford to keep paying me. One or two years later I went back to DUMBO and was blown away by how that little area had changed, and I assumed Mammals, Etc. had long moved elsewhere. I wish I had kept in touch with that guy though.

    a few years later, as graduation approached, I was once again looking for work, this time not only to pay the bills but also trying to break into the film world. While trying to get my foot in the door, as they say, I applied to be an artist assistant to a video artist named Brock Enright. He was just starting up a project called Videogames Adventure Services, which was a company that would have people pay to be kidnapped by them. The idea was that the company itself was Brock's work of art, and people were essentially paying to take part in it. He would try to create elaborate scenarios for each person's adventure, but there was nothing particularly scary about them. The intensity of each adventure would depend on how much the client threw themselves into it, but the set ups were largely playful, usually involving senseless games, odd pranks, and other bizarre behavior. Most of the people in the crew were Brock's childhood friends from Virginia Beach who grew up being into punk rock and skate videos, so the whole thing had a Jackass-meets-The Game kind of vibe. At the beginning the kidnappings would last less than a day, although the "adventure" itself would be a 3-day window during which the kidnapping could happen at any moment. I would usually film everything, starting with following the client around the city as they went about their business, all the way until they were released. This was at the height of post-9/11 paranoia, yet we were jumping out of vans wearing balaklavas and pulling people off the streets and never got into any trouble. One time we carried a guy out of his house into a van in a dufflebag right in front of a cop car, but I think the fact that we had cameras kept people from questioning what was going on. We never made any money from the work at the time, the money charged would only cover things like van rentals and locations. The only way this went on for so long is that Brock lived in a rent-controlled loft in Soho that belonged to an old professor of his, and everyone else had part time jobs.

    I worked with Brock for several years, all the while working mind-numbing jobs (cashier at a high-end audio store, stock manager at a book store, video editor at a market research company, general bitch at a large post-production house, etc). For a long time this was my escape valve, I'd be fine working a job I hated knowing that when the weekend came around I'd spend the next 72 hours in a completely different world. Over the years the adventures got increasingly elaborate, and the kidnappings went from hours to days. As a result, we all started to burn out from them. We'd do a week-long adventure, then spend a month without seeing each other. The last one I did, we kept someone in the basement of Mass MoCA, up in the Berkshires, for a week, as part of a group exhibition. It was awesome and exhausting. The whole project slowed down around then, Brock eventually had a child and the pressures of fatherhood made him change his practice a bit. He started working as an assistant to a highly respected artist and went back to making art he could actually sell. Practically every friend I made during that time is still making art, most of them in NYC. One of them even became David Byrne's assistant for a while.

    I guess this is just to say there's still some crazy shit happening in the city, or at least I feel like I got a taste of it. The thing is, it doesn't happen in the heart of the city anymore like Soho was during the 70s and 80s, when David Byrned moved out there. Most aspiring artists are out in places like Bushwick now because it's where you can still get decent studio space, and they still have to work a full time job on top of doing their own work. You could say a number of those artists and musicians are uncreative douchebags, and I wouldn't disagree, but I think we'd be saying the same thing about the majority of people in the NYC art scene of the 70s and 80s.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    kala said:
    there is still plenty of gully underground cool shit in and around nyc
    but you gotta know about it and it ain't broadcast or obvious

    I'd say 'plenty' is a bit of an overstatement, at least compared to the 70's/80's.

    And what little there is, is way more broadcast than it was back before the innernets/social media etc.

    Still, there is some, and Byrne's viewpoint is at least a little bit of a product of his being disconnected to what undercurrents there are.

    Basically the point I was trying to make a few pages back. I realize it's a private garden here, but in the past year two NY Strutters have put out their own music releases, and that's the ones we know about. So yes, people are still creating.
    Pop up stores, galleries and music events abound.
    It's weird to expect an underground when everything is online...and even then, who can keep up with it all? So there will always be something on the periphery.
    Maybe underground has been replaced with a more accurate DIY. It is a given now, so much so that it doesn't even make sense to call anything that.

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    The place of the well off has always been to support the arts, not create them.

    This is an interesting point. It's been a belief of mine for a while now that we're firmly on the road back to the patronage system of centuries past, where art and creativity only really flourish according to the largesse of whoever pays the piper (and, by extension, calls the tune). What kind of art we're likely to end up with as a consequence is anyone's guess.

  • skullsnaps said:
    chain stores ruining unique neighborhoods

    Ruined?
    So people don't shop at these chain stores?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    DocMcCoy said:
    Rockadelic said:
    The place of the well off has always been to support the arts, not create them.

    This is an interesting point. It's been a belief of mine for a while now that we're firmly on the road back to the patronage system of centuries past, where art and creativity only really flourish according to the largesse of whoever pays the piper (and, by extension, calls the tune). What kind of art we're likely to end up with as a consequence is anyone's guess.

    Those who jump on bandwagons can rarely create a bandwagon.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    ppadilha said:
    You could say a number of those artists and musicians are uncreative douchebags, and I wouldn't disagree, but I think we'd be saying the same thing about the majority of people in the NYC art scene of the 70s and 80s.

    You would say the majority of the NYC art scene in the 70's were uncreative douchbags?

    What form of measurement would u use?

    The 70's is one of the most fertile times in NYC art and u got this era having the same number uncreative douchebags?

    I dont see it.

    The various hipster hoods of now didnt even exist in the 70's.

    How many NYU students were moving to, staying, creating shops and boutiques on the Heroin infested LES in 1975 after graduation?

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    BallzDeep said:
    skullsnaps said:
    chain stores ruining unique neighborhoods

    Ruined?
    So people don't shop at these chain stores?

    Only after they've forced the competition out of business.

  • DelayDelay 4,530 Posts
    batmon said:
    ppadilha said:
    You could say a number of those artists and musicians are uncreative douchebags, and I wouldn't disagree, but I think we'd be saying the same thing about the majority of people in the NYC art scene of the 70s and 80s.

    You would say the majority of the NYC art scene in the 70's were uncreative douchbags?

    What form of measurement would u use?

    The 70's is one of the most fertile times in NYC art and u got this era having the same number uncreative douchebags?

    I dont see it.

    The various hipster hoods of now didnt even exist in the 70's.

    How many NYU students were moving to, staying, creating shops and boutiques on the Heroin infested LES in 1975 after graduation?
    I think he's saying that there's always been bad art.

    I know for a fact that a TON of rich kids from the upper west side were all city writers in the 80s. They were also in a bunch in bands at CB.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Delay said:

    I know for a fact that a TON of rich kids from the upper west side were all city writers in the 80s. They were also in a bunch in bands at CB.

    In regards to art......
    Rich kids rebelling against their parents wealth > Rich kids taking full advantage of their parents wealth



  • DEAL WITH IT
Sign In or Register to comment.