riddle me this-why are northern soul guys such uptight dorks?

kalakala 3,341 Posts
edited June 2013 in Strut Central
98% of the northern guys i have met in person and or dealt with online via record dealing are all such uptight anal retentive douche-bags.
I've yet to meet a black northern soul collector or dj???. just sayin'
I'm sure there must be a few out there.

While i am thankful for their business , I really don't "get" them or their subculture.

From the little special dances that they do,the fashion/clothing, to the fetishization of black american culture ???..it all kinda makes me sick.
It seems so phony and ???.vapid.
How certain tunes are coveted and gripped,the whole manship thing,etc is funny to me.
I realize and appreciate the lust for rare vinyl but it is douche-chill inducing.

I love nothing more than selling a rare "northern" 45 because I never feel a sense of loss like I would if it was a funk,Brazilian,reggae,ska,latin or psych 45.

So..thanks guys!

To each their own and of course there are MANY great northern 45's but I generally find the sub genre tepid and well???..weak.

While I realize this is a huge generalization and there are obviously exceptions it seems that being a dork is part of the territory.

rant over and this is not directed at anyone in particular???I swear!
tee hee
«13

  Comments


  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    kala said:
    98% of the northern guys i have met in person and or dealt with online via record dealing are all such uptight anal retentive douche-bags.

    This percentage and sentiment equally applies to the following (not exhaustive) demographs:

    Record sellers
    Record buyers
    Parking wardens
    Bank workers
    Political activists
    Cab drivers
    Customs workers
    Old bill
    Anyone who sells any kind of ticket
    Animals
    Religious zealots
    Dictators
    Seagulls

    Fwiw, sold my last grip of northern 45s to US, UK and German buyers in a 3way split, and all were the easiest bay transactions ever. No questions, instant payment, 5 star feedback.

    Maybe you might want to revisit your listing practices, communication style, and perhaps have a frank self-assessment regarding as to whether your clear antipathy to said dudes might in some small way be feeding through to them. I know it sounds ridiculous, but you never know.

    B/w post anally retentive prose or your (sic) soft.

  • kalakala 3,341 Posts
    didn't say i had any problems regarding business dealings dude
    just noting a certain trend in behavior -not limited to online stuff

  • beezerholmesbeezerholmes Edinburgh 59 Posts
    At least where you are they don't sound violent.

    I had to dj with one once, and although he is was a lovely guy in person, i was warned that he was a savage and dangerous person in his youth, prone to beating the living shit out of people for little reason. You got the vibe that he knew how to handle himself, also he seemed to be missing pretty much all his teeth.

    Likewise have you ever accidentally taken a drink on the dancefloor at a northern night? Fuck me,i thought i was about to be stabbed when i crossed the corner of the dancefloor with my drink.

    The other week i was djing at a local spot where i get free reign to play what i want and a bunch of older, football casual looking folks came in. I recognised one of them as a dj from a northern night and another from those nights. I nodded to say hi and the dj nodded back.

    I was playing 60s psych, kraut, weird funk etc, not exactly what they would have been into, but not miles away from it either.

    I had typed out the whole story, but it is kinda long winded and the short verision is they decided to just fuck with me until i asked them not to and then threatened to kill me and i had to involve the bouncer to get rid of them, who also wasn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of being beaten up by a bunch of 50+ yr old hard men.

    An easy way to wind them up is to say that jazz funk and modern soul are just another way for them to describe disco music.

    I agree with you though, they are, for the most part, cunts.

    Keb Darge is a lovely chap though.

  • kalakala 3,341 Posts
    in no way shape or form would i ever lump keb into the same category.
    with his love of jump blues and funk he is a total northern soul renegade.

    i just can't get totally into this???..


    when i know i could be listening to that!


    i realize different strokes for different folks but the difference in heat levels and dirty filth is just too obvious.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    Wait, there are gangs of psychotic fiddy something NS connoisseurs roaming clubland looking to exterminate non-believers?

    Who knew?

    ::next level::

  • JimsterJimster Twilight Zone/ Al Capone/ Rolling Stone/ Eva Perón 6,276 Posts
    skel said:
    Wait, there are gangs of psychotic fiddy something NS connoisseurs roaming clubland looking to exterminate non-believers?

    Who knew?

    ::next level::

    It's the new darts.

  • "I've yet to meet a black northern soul collector or dj???. just sayin'
    I'm sure there must be a few out there."


    being a "black" dj, collector,and funk music freak i can say that all of the black dj's i know(including myself) do not care about collecting or exclusively playing any one type of music. no disrespect but most northern soul sounds super soft to me. it's nothing that i would ever play. i personally like anything that sounds funky. no matter what it is. i feel everything you said. i think we are all weird as vinyl collectors in some way but getting violent?! that i don't tolerate.

  • kalakala 3,341 Posts
    skel said:
    Wait, there are gangs of psychotic fiddy something NS connoisseurs roaming clubland looking to exterminate non-believers?

    Who knew?

    ::next level::


    ayyyy keep the faith

  • beezerholmesbeezerholmes Edinburgh 59 Posts
    kala said:
    in no way shape or form would i ever lump keb into the same category.
    with his love of jump blues and funk he is a total northern soul renegade.

    i realize different strokes for different folks but the difference in heat levels and dirty filth is just too obvious.

    Yeah i agree with you about Keb, his music knowledge and appreciation far exceeds that of any Northern Soul collector, but i mentioned him because it is not exactly a secret that he started out playing and digging for Northern. He actually played an allnighter up around my way a couple of years ago.

    To be fair you're more likely to hear things like Anne Sexton - You've Been Gone Too Long, Voices Of East Harlem - Cashing In, and bizarrely Rare Pleasure - Let Me Down Easy, than your old barn recorded stompers like Dobie Gray these days. I should also mention i am not a Northern Soul expert, that was just the records i remember hearing last time i went, i think i actually requested the Anne Sexton one now i think about it.

    It is an interesting scene to look at from the outside, but i can imagine your life would start to feel like a Ken Loach movie after while if you bought into the lifestyle too hard.

    One time when i was at one of these gigs some guy recognised me from the record shop i worked in and started giving me a hard time for the benefit of his mates "Cunts like you driving up the price of our modern soul records, i bet you didn't know that on the other side of your beloved 'Last night saved it all' is a classic soul record that you'll never appreciate, i bet you didn't even know about it did you?" etc...

    I replied "how would i know blud? my copies are glued to a 12 inch so i can rock doubles of them better" (I didn't actually say that though i wish i had just to wind him up)

    I'm glad they are still 'keeping the faith' but i do worry at what cost it comes in at.

  • beezerholmes said:
    At least where you are they don't sound violent.

    I had to dj with one once, and although he is was a lovely guy in person, i was warned that he was a savage and dangerous person in his youth, prone to beating the living shit out of people for little reason. You got the vibe that he knew how to handle himself, also he seemed to be missing pretty much all his teeth.

    Likewise have you ever accidentally taken a drink on the dancefloor at a northern night? Fuck me,i thought i was about to be stabbed when i crossed the corner of the dancefloor with my drink.

    The other week i was djing at a local spot where i get free reign to play what i want and a bunch of older, football casual looking folks came in. I recognised one of them as a dj from a northern night and another from those nights. I nodded to say hi and the dj nodded back.

    I was playing 60s psych, kraut, weird funk etc, not exactly what they would have been into, but not miles away from it either.

    I had typed out the whole story, but it is kinda long winded and the short verision is they decided to just fuck with me until i asked them not to and then threatened to kill me and i had to involve the bouncer to get rid of them, who also wasn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of being beaten up by a bunch of 50+ yr old hard men.

    An easy way to wind them up is to say that jazz funk and modern soul are just another way for them to describe disco music.

    I agree with you though, they are, for the most part, cunts.

    Keb Darge is a lovely chap though.

    Yeah, I've been to a couple of Northern nights in Edinburgh where I could easily have imagined it kicking off but never had any trouble personally.

    Not my type of thing musicwise really, just went along to accompany a couple of mates who are into it.

  • If you have never been on the northern scene you will never understand it, so don't bother trying to work it out. One thing it definitely is not is violent, one of the friendliest and most devoted scenes out there. This entire thread shows ignorance of a group of people who love collecting and dancing to predominantly 60's music. In fact it's the biggest load of bollocks i've read in years. People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it. As Edwin Starr said "northern soul is what it is and there is no need for it to change".

  • JimsterJimster Twilight Zone/ Al Capone/ Rolling Stone/ Eva Perón 6,276 Posts
    I was travelling home from work one time and took the scenic route. The roads are usually quiet but there was a car in front that had the plate N5OUL or something very similar. It had a load of "Keep the Faith" stickers on etc. Made me chuckle.

    We went along over hill and dale for about 10 miles and then the road widened out at a junction and we ended up alongside. He looked over and I went to do the fist gesture, but because I am a fcuktard, the way I did it looked like I wanted to fight him. He wound the window down and gave me a "You-f*cking-what?" look. Yes, white skinhead.

    I started laughing and did "The fist" properly, and he laughed. He was lost. I asked him if was he going to the Northern night in Ilkeston (he was). I told him his sat nav needed sacking, and the quick way there.

    How we laughed.

    Carry on.

  • beezerholmesbeezerholmes Edinburgh 59 Posts
    soulcitizen said:
    If you have never been on the northern scene you will never understand it, so don't bother trying to work it out. One thing it definitely is not is violent, one of the friendliest and most devoted scenes out there. This entire thread shows ignorance of a group of people who love collecting and dancing to predominantly 60's music. In fact it's the biggest load of bollocks i've read in years. People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it. As Edwin Starr said "northern soul is what it is and there is no need for it to change".

    No need to be such an uptight dork about it dude...

  • crazypoprockcrazypoprock 1,037 Posts
    because they spent over a thousand dollars on a mediocre rare soul 45 that is VG-?

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    Leave Northern Soul Alone

  • The-gafflerThe-gaffler 2,190 Posts
    soulcitizen said:
    People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.

    I believe they did celebrate it during the time and period of its creation.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    skel said:
    Leave Northern Soul Alone

  • ppadilhappadilha 1,962 Posts
    I used to go to some Northern Soul type parties in NYC, but they usually involved rockabilly bands and Northern Soul DJs, so I'm not sure that counts. I only went occasionally but they could be fun, although it was weird that it was always the same people at every party. Reminds me of a friend who's a burlesque dancer in the 1920s retro-revival whatever the fuck you call that scene. She has always complained that every event always has the exact same crowd and she doesn't have many friends in that scene because the majority of them are douches. I guess that's what you get when you start putting too many rules and codes as to what constitutes your "scene."

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Was in NY a few weeks ago and met a Jamaican dude who is a big Northern Soul dealer and has been slinging records for 40+ years.

    He was a real down to earth dude who gave me real good deals on some Ska & Reggae LP's.

    Pulled me aside before I left and told me "Don't give that fucking Wop a finders fee" about the Italin guy who had brought me to his house as he was already hitting him up for 10% and wanted to make sure he didn't "double dip".

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,690 Posts
    ppadilha said:
    I used to go to some Northern Soul type parties in NYC, but they usually involved rockabilly bands and Northern Soul DJs, so I'm not sure that counts. I only went occasionally but they could be fun, although it was weird that it was always the same people at every party. Reminds me of a friend who's a burlesque dancer in the 1920s retro-revival whatever the fuck you call that scene. She has always complained that every event always has the exact same crowd and she doesn't have many friends in that scene because the majority of them are douches. I guess that's what you get when you start putting too many rules and codes as to what constitutes your "scene."

    The lack of new entries into the established northern soul canon is the only thing I find troubling
    There are some really great songs in there tho and the dancing is fun

  • DanteDante 371 Posts
    what is happening to northern soul right now is what happened to doo wop a while ago. Typical SoulStrut Dude doesn't get it, which is totally fine and understandable. the specific appreciation of soul music that we know as northern soul emerged over 40 years ago in working class cities in the north of england, how could we get it? the diggeur generation (which I consider the main frame of SS) is a different phenomenon, with different tastes, aesthetics, cultural backgrounds and references, etc. whatever, shit happens.

    but the whole they're a bunch of assholes thing seems a bit too much to me and reeks of class elitism. i could be wrong, though. there are some shady dudes out there, definitely. but i've also met northern types who are some of the friendliest most generous dudes ever. just as in the digalot scene, i suppose.

  • kalakala 3,341 Posts
    :holygrail: one thing i conveniently left out,some of the deepest funk 45's in my collection came from trading with northern guys.
    so they ain't all bad
    ;-) :holygrail:

  • GamleOleGamleOle 508 Posts
    98% of the northern guys i have met in person and or dealt with online via record dealing are all such uptight anal retentive douche-bags.

    Calling them ???uptight anal retentive douche-bags??? is too easy. I think it needs to be supported by some examples that illustrate why.

    I live in a small town so I rarely deal with anyone in person, but I have dealt with loads of people online. My experience is the complete opposite when dealing with northern soul. Grading standards often tend to be lower among UK dealers, so I rarely receive any complaints about my grading. Northern collectors are used to records being expensive, and they are willing to shell out. They also not so obsessed with trying to find the absolutely cheapest copy around. I have sold a lot of records through soul-source, and it is hassle free 99 % of the time. No one is asking questions for days without buying, and I always receive friendly messages which are straight to the point. Very polite and understanding people in there. I run into many more crazy customers on eBay, where I mostly sell everything else besides northern soul.

    They do have a fetish for the music, but black American culture in general? I???m not sure about that. Maybe you equate music with culture? In my view, they integrate the music into their own culture. I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today? It???s not like they are trying to portray themselves as black American, and they have also largely refrained from trying to copy the music. Instead, it has remained a dj culture.

    I???m not into the dancing part, and I don???t go to soul nights, but I don???t have any grudges against these things either. Maybe you just need to be part of the environment to understand why it???s special. What fascinates me is the music. There is a fair amount of boring tunes around but also plenty of gems to discover continuously. It???s a broad category with stuff to explore for years. I???m also fascinated by the fans??? tremendous dedication that has lasted from the 60s and until today. A lot of valuable information on record pressings and artists has been archived due to the dedication of fans. If it wasn???t for the northern scene, obscure soul would have been even more obscure.

  • GatorToofGatorToof 582 Posts
    the real gangsters are here.

    :balla:

  • GamleOleGamleOle 508 Posts
    These are some reasons why I like the genre:

    Margie Joseph "One More Chance"


    Darrell Banks "I'm the one who loves you"


    BARBARA MASON "YOU BETTER STOP IT"


    The Precisions "if This Is Love"


    "Consider The Source" Leon Haywood


    The O'Jays "I'll Never Forget You"


    Carl Carlton "I Can Feel It"


    The Creations - "A Dream"

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    soulcitizen said:
    People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.

    GamleOle said:
    I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.

    I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    It's not a genre. It's a mixtape title at best.

  • kalakala 3,341 Posts
    bassie said:
    soulcitizen said:
    People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.

    GamleOle said:
    I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.

    I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?

    yea
    this is exactly the kind of stuff i am talking about.
    the whole"we know your music better than you" thing.
    also many northern guys have come over from the UK and sourced super rare 45's from the OG artists,at a mere pittance,flipped it for thousands and or bootlegged it.
    this happens in every genre funk included, but I have read some pretty snide examples of this over the years on uk soul forums .

  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,266 Posts
    kala said:
    bassie said:
    soulcitizen said:
    People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.

    GamleOle said:
    I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.

    I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?

    yea
    this is exactly the kind of stuff i am talking about.
    the whole"we know your music better than you" thing.
    also many northern guys have come over from the UK and sourced super rare 45's from the OG artists,at a mere pittance,flipped it for thousands and or bootlegged it.
    this happens in every genre funk included, but I have read some pretty snide examples of this over the years on uk soul forums .

    Is this thread eventually going to come around to Frank sourcing cheap African grails?

    Or Egon, or whoever bought records from the artist for less than the maximum popsike value?


    I don't like the Northern sound, but respect the scene for it's dedication. It's great that they're passionate about the music.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,028 Posts
    GamleOle said:
    98% of the northern guys i have met in person and or dealt with online via record dealing are all such uptight anal retentive douche-bags.

    Calling them ???uptight anal retentive douche-bags??? is too easy. I think it needs to be supported by some examples that illustrate why.

    I live in a small town so I rarely deal with anyone in person, but I have dealt with loads of people online. My experience is the complete opposite when dealing with northern soul. Grading standards often tend to be lower among UK dealers, so I rarely receive any complaints about my grading. Northern collectors are used to records being expensive, and they are willing to shell out. They also not so obsessed with trying to find the absolutely cheapest copy around. I have sold a lot of records through soul-source, and it is hassle free 99 % of the time. No one is asking questions for days without buying, and I always receive friendly messages which are straight to the point. Very polite and understanding people in there. I run into many more crazy customers on eBay, where I mostly sell everything else besides northern soul.

    They do have a fetish for the music, but black American culture in general? I???m not sure about that. Maybe you equate music with culture? In my view, they integrate the music into their own culture. I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today? It???s not like they are trying to portray themselves as black American, and they have also largely refrained from trying to copy the music. Instead, it has remained a dj culture.

    I???m not into the dancing part, and I don???t go to soul nights, but I don???t have any grudges against these things either. Maybe you just need to be part of the environment to understand why it???s special. What fascinates me is the music. There is a fair amount of boring tunes around but also plenty of gems to discover continuously. It???s a broad category with stuff to explore for years. I???m also fascinated by the fans??? tremendous dedication that has lasted from the 60s and until today. A lot of valuable information on record pressings and artists has archived due to the dedication of fans. If it wasn???t for the northern scene, obscure soul would have been even more obscure.

    Dang, this guy got it!
    Props sir
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