People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.
GamleOle said:
I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.
I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?
yea
this is exactly the kind of stuff i am talking about.
the whole"we know your music better than you" thing.
also many northern guys have come over from the UK and sourced super rare 45's from the OG artists,at a mere pittance,flipped it for thousands and or bootlegged it.
this happens in every genre funk included, but I have read some pretty snide examples of this over the years on uk soul forums .
Is this thread eventually going to come around to Frank sourcing cheap African grails?
Or Egon, or whoever bought records from the artist for less than the maximum popsike value?
I don't like the Northern sound, but respect the scene for it's dedication. It's great that they're passionate about the music.
no because frank pays his agents quite well,gives them laptops,jobs and is reviving the scene in africa etc
egon usually reissues what he is sourcing
I don't like the Northern sound, but respect the scene for it's dedication. It's great that they're passionate about the music.
Agreed.
I don't get the pointing out of white & black in the post either. Is Kala white and it pisses him off. Or black and it pisses him off? Why is this even a factor? Next up. Post on how white dudes are ruining hip hop since they are the majority of people buying it.
From my time in the UK. I was always impressed with the amount of interest with that community in the music by not just the collectors and DJs, but the people going to the gigs.
But that's the UK on a whole IMO. Never have I come across the general public with a passion of music on a whole, than men and women in the UK. Tho, the last time I was there was about 8 years ago. Things could be changing.
I don't like the Northern sound, but respect the scene for it's dedication. It's great that they're passionate about the music.
Agreed.
I don't get the pointing out of white & black in the post either. Is Kala white and it pisses him off. Or black and it pisses him off? Why is this even a factor? Next up. Post on how white dudes are ruining hip hop since they are the majority of people buying it.
From my time in the UK. I was always impressed with the amount of interest with that community in the music by not just the collectors and DJs, but the people going to the gigs.
But that's the UK on a whole IMO. Never have I come across the general public with a passion of music on a whole, than men and women in the UK. Tho, the last time I was there was about 8 years ago. Things could be changing.
i am mixed race and i was merely pointing out that it is primarily a white thing in the UK,run by white dudes exclusively
not mad at anyone
I occasionally go to Northern nights in the UK as I enjoy the music but I have to say those dudes really need to loosen up a bit.
I've never met a NS dude with a sense of humor of any sort (or a Mod for that matter) & they definitely look down on anyone outside that seen.
If you mention Funk or Hip Hop they seem to have some kind of brain & facial seizure.
I know Keb Darge openly hates on Hip Hop even though to my mind it has been a major contribution to his DJ success with his "Heavy Funk" comps etc
On a side note whats with a lot of previously Hip Hop DJ's in NYC pretty much only playing Northern Soul parties these days? albeit a better & more relaxed vibe than UK events imo.
If you have never been on the northern scene you will never understand it, so don't bother trying to work it out. One thing it definitely is not is violent, one of the friendliest and most devoted scenes out there. This entire thread shows ignorance of a group of people who love collecting and dancing to predominantly 60's music. In fact it's the biggest load of bollocks i've read in years. People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it. As Edwin Starr said "northern soul is what it is and there is no need for it to change".
No need to be such an uptight dork about it dude...
That's the best you can come up with as a response LOL
It's a scene, not a style or genre. Get on a plane, boat or train and go to some all-nighter events then you will understand it, not by reading about it on the internet or listening to what people class as 'northern'. Give it a try, you might like it. Then again the reality that it's predominantly a roomful of blokes the wrong side of 40 who can dance better than you & tell you more about rare soul than you have days left to live might be a little... dorkish for you
People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.
GamleOle said:
I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.
I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?
They've visited quite a lot of places over the years, all the above plus shops, warehouses, rubbish tips, shacks, farms, trailers, everywhere. and they bought up most of the 45's from the late 60s and shipped them to the UK in the process. The 'insular dances' is a pointless dig, seeing as they're based on performers like Jackie Wilson in the first instance. What is so wrong a bunch of people, thousands of them, absolutely loving collecting and dancing to predominantly to black american music from the late 60's to the point where its not even hero worship, it's a lifestyle and borderline religion. They're happy, you don't understand it, why bother trying to. I don't understand people being into the metal or hard rock scenes. So what. no big deal, let them get on with it.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.
GamleOle said:
I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.
I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?
They've visited quite a lot of places over the years, all the above plus shops, warehouses, rubbish tips, shacks, farms, trailers, everywhere. and they bought up most of the 45's from the late 60s and shipped them to the UK in the process. The 'insular dances' is a pointless dig, seeing as they're based on performers like Jackie Wilson in the first instance. What is so wrong a bunch of people, thousands of them, absolutely loving collecting and dancing to predominantly to black american music from the late 60's to the point where its not even hero worship, it's a lifestyle and borderline religion. They're happy, you don't understand it, why bother trying to. I don't understand people being into the metal or hard rock scenes. So what. no big deal, let them get on with it.
It's not a pointless dig because it's not a dig. As specific as the interest/scene is, it's bound to be so. It would be a little strange for me, a poster on Soul Strut, to make a dig at something being insular, don't you think?
Your fight is not with me. I have not said one thing to doubt or ridicule passion, dedication or good times. If you revisit what I did write, my question is about the perplexing Christopher Columbus attitude demonstrated in the two quotes.
People in the USA should have woken up to the great music on their doorsteps decades ago instead of whining about the people that bought it up and celebrated it.
GamleOle said:
I also don???t see why it???s a problem for white Europeans to embrace the music just because (black) Americans have forgotten about it today?.
I am not understanding this. How many American living rooms have these folks visited? Or juke joints? Or family house parties? People need to have bumper stickers, music forum avatars, personalized license plates, insular dances and a $4K bill in their Inbox to prove how much it means to them?
They've visited quite a lot of places over the years, all the above plus shops, warehouses, rubbish tips, shacks, farms, trailers, everywhere. and they bought up most of the 45's from the late 60s and shipped them to the UK in the process. The 'insular dances' is a pointless dig, seeing as they're based on performers like Jackie Wilson in the first instance. What is so wrong a bunch of people, thousands of them, absolutely loving collecting and dancing to predominantly to black american music from the late 60's to the point where its not even hero worship, it's a lifestyle and borderline religion. They're happy, you don't understand it, why bother trying to. I don't understand people being into the metal or hard rock scenes. So what. no big deal, let them get on with it.
It's not a pointless dig because it's not a dig. As specific as the interest/scene is, it's bound to be so. It would be a little strange for me, a poster on Soul Strut, to make a dig at something being insular, don't you think?
Your fight is not with me. I have not said one thing to doubt or ridicule passion, dedication or good times. If you revisit what I did write, my question is about the perplexing Christopher Columbus attitude demonstrated in the two quotes.
i'm not fighting with anyone believe me.
I am interested to know when most people in the USA first became aware of the northern soul scene, because if you want to use the Christopher Columbus attitude, then it's true that is what happened in the period with those records. They were worthless in the USA, and many are now worth hundreds and thousands of dollars each. I'd hazard a guess that most people in the USA became aware via the internet, and the horse had bolted well over a decade before by that point, and those records were in the UK in their millions. The dealers & shops didn't know about it on the whole, or the artists when someone found their name in a local phone book and knocked on their door saying 'hello, i'm from England and i'm a big fan of your records' that they'd forgotten about after they flopped. I'm not part of the northern scene anymore through personal choice, but to see misinformation and negativity bandied around about it just didn't seem fair to the people that are on it. Not that they'd be that bothered as it's happened for years LOL
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I liked it much better when all 45's were uniformly worth one dollar a piece. Y'all done fucked up the game. But yeah, we're now supposed to thank you for it? And while this has become a recurring theme across threads, go spend some time in New Orleans (then or now) and then come back still talking that no one has the same enthusiasm/appreciation as us. Seriously, die with that utter bullshit already.
Are we discussing the small percentage of assholes that Kala met or the entire steez?
I been to a handfull of NS parties BITD that were held in the East Village.
They were cool and yet it seemed to be kinda like the Rockabilly scene. 5 veterans, 30 fans, and 20 casuals.
Shit aint no diff from Star Trek Conventions, Breakdance revivalism, Rennaissance Fairs, or Golden Age Hip Hop DJ Curators (talmbout choppin up Walk On By for an internet competition). Lets do the time warp agaaaaaaaaain........
I don't remember anyone asking to be thanked, i'm not judging what is right or wrong, just saying what happened that's all. I'm out too this is going nowhere other than personal and pointless.
Are we discussing the small percentage of assholes that Kala met or the entire steez?
I been to a handfull of NS parties BITD that were held in the East Village.
They were cool and yet it seemed to be kinda like the Rockabilly scene. 5 veterans, 30 fans, and 20 casuals.
Shit aint no diff from Star Trek Conventions, Breakdance revivalism, Rennaissance Fairs, or Golden Age Hip Hop DJ Curators (talmbout choppin up Walk On By for an internet competition). Lets do the time warp agaaaaaaaaain........
Please tell me they don't have Rennaissance Faires in NYC.
b/w
Employment opportunities for ex Dead Heads and Rainbow Peoples.
I liked it much better when all 45's were uniformly worth one dollar a piece. Y'all done fucked up the game. But yeah, we're now supposed to thank you for it? And while this has become a recurring theme across threads, go spend some time in New Orleans (then or now) and then come back still talking that no one has the same enthusiasm/appreciation as us. Seriously, die with that utter bullshit already.
There's a tremendous concentration of passionate soul fans in the UK, and I think it's fair to acknowledge their contribution to keeping soul music alive. Personally, I learned a lot about soul music from the northern soul scene. But I agree that it would be arrogant to say that the northern scene single-handedly kept 60s/70s soul music alive, or that they have a unique passion for the music that no one else can match.
I also agree that prices are silly, but they will decline at some point. The average northern soul collector, who is probably +50 years old, vastly outnumbers the younger generation who is just entering the game of collecting soul 45s. The old generation of collectors will begin to sell off their collections for different reasons within the next decade or so. Some probably expect a nice retirement with the money they can make from selling their collections, and others may prefer to sell their records while they are still alive instead of leaving the job to family members. Generally speaking, I think prices have already declined over the past 5-8 years, but I think that we have only seen the beginning of this decline. Hopefully, soul records will be more affordable in the future.
That's the best you can come up with as a response LOL
It's a scene, not a style or genre. Get on a plane, boat or train and go to some all-nighter events then you will understand it, not by reading about it on the internet or listening to what people class as 'northern'. Give it a try, you might like it. Then again the reality that it's predominantly a roomful of blokes the wrong side of 40 who can dance better than you & tell you more about rare soul than you have days left to live might be a little... dorkish for you
Apologies, i couldn't resist.
I don't think you maybe read my comments though, i do regularly go to northern nights and i know some djs, i have sold records to them and dj'd with them on occasion. My first experiences djing was actually with ex northern djs.
I think you're just defending something that obviously means a lot to you, which is sweet and definitely honourable and i meant my comments in a light-hearted way, even though they obviously rustled your jimmies.
Though, i will say that if you gave up on the scene a while back, whereas i still attend events... doesn't that make me more qualified to comment on it than you? :p
I am interested to know when most people in the USA first became aware of the northern soul scene
I can assure you that most people in the USA have never heard of the Northern soul scene.
That includes fans of Jackie Wilson and Deon Jackson.
The only people who have heard of the scene are record sellers, djs and online record buyers.
Many of those people know nothing about the scene or the people in it, only that certain records labeled Northern sell for a lot of money.
I have nothing but good things to say about the people I have met and dealt with who are part of the scene.
But many of them are purists and are as annoying as a folky who can't abide electric guitars, or a blues fans that will only listen to people who picked cotton, or a hip hop fan who only likes music that acknowledges the 4 elements or the jazz fan who hates electric keyboards.
Like any other purist pursuit it baffles and amuses me.
The records that are worth thousands are only worth thousands to the first few buyers.
Like other purists they like some music which is not very good because it shares key conventions with actual good records.
All I know about the scene is that it is comprised of highly opinionated, nerdy, obsessive men who like to dance all night to their favorite records.
Which also describes me so I'm not complaining.
Your comments that Americans don't care about their own culture are wrong.
That is what has some people here upset.
I suppose that answers the OPs original question.
I always got the same impression as the OP about the NS scene but it doesn't bother me too much because I don't make an effort to try to be apart of it either. There are some great records in that genre but the asking prices can be quite silly. Whether it's the value of the song or scarcity of what remains of the release that drives prices, I don't know.
What I will say is, I love stumbling across NS sellers on ebay because usually what 'I' find of value - they are willing to sell me for dirt cheap. Win/Win I suppose?
I prefer the raw sound of the Creations version, but the later release on Shock is also great. Despite credited to the Creations, the Zodiac release is in fact also by Brothers of Soul. The story goes....:
Allegedly, the Chicago group THE CREATIONS travelled to Detroit to cut this record, and three of the singers (Charles Boyd, Eugene Amos and Michael Wiggins) woke up in the morning with no voices due to having colds! Only Gerald Dickerson appears on the record, and the other voices heard are those of the Detroit group BROTHERS OF SOUL (Fred Bridges, Richard Knight & Robert Eaton), whose members also wrote the song!
This classic Keb Darge interview (posted on here before) puts the scene into perspective I think. In some ways, it was punk before punk. And Keb n them were basically breaking at the start of breaking as well, unbeknownst to them. Keb Darge interview
I was at one of the nights of small soul weekender this past saturday, they're playing disco, crossover, some latin soul and so on. I don't think that many soul collectors are strictly about the classic amphetamine northern stuff anymore. Purists are generally annoying, humorless assholes no matter the genre or style.
I was at one of the nights of small soul weekender this past saturday, they're playing disco, crossover, some latin soul and so on. I don't think that many soul collectors are strictly about the classic amphetamine northern stuff anymore. Purists are generally annoying, humorless assholes no matter the genre or style.
The one at Lighthouse in Stockholm? Heard it was dope!
I was at one of the nights of small soul weekender this past saturday, they're playing disco, crossover, some latin soul and so on. I don't think that many soul collectors are strictly about the classic amphetamine northern stuff anymore. Purists are generally annoying, humorless assholes no matter the genre or style.
The one at Lighthouse in Stockholm? Heard it was dope!
Yup, that's the one!
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Reynaldo said:
At least they dance, unlike some record dudes.
You really want any of those dudes to be dancing? The Brits with their pork-pie hats and the American crusties with their stained t-shirts. No thank you on both counts.
Comments
Why are you trolling dude?
shhhhh
no because frank pays his agents quite well,gives them laptops,jobs and is reviving the scene in africa etc
egon usually reissues what he is sourcing
Agreed.
I don't get the pointing out of white & black in the post either. Is Kala white and it pisses him off. Or black and it pisses him off? Why is this even a factor? Next up. Post on how white dudes are ruining hip hop since they are the majority of people buying it.
From my time in the UK. I was always impressed with the amount of interest with that community in the music by not just the collectors and DJs, but the people going to the gigs.
But that's the UK on a whole IMO. Never have I come across the general public with a passion of music on a whole, than men and women in the UK. Tho, the last time I was there was about 8 years ago. Things could be changing.
i am mixed race and i was merely pointing out that it is primarily a white thing in the UK,run by white dudes exclusively
not mad at anyone
I've never met a NS dude with a sense of humor of any sort (or a Mod for that matter) & they definitely look down on anyone outside that seen.
If you mention Funk or Hip Hop they seem to have some kind of brain & facial seizure.
I know Keb Darge openly hates on Hip Hop even though to my mind it has been a major contribution to his DJ success with his "Heavy Funk" comps etc
On a side note whats with a lot of previously Hip Hop DJ's in NYC pretty much only playing Northern Soul parties these days? albeit a better & more relaxed vibe than UK events imo.
That's the best you can come up with as a response LOL
It's a scene, not a style or genre. Get on a plane, boat or train and go to some all-nighter events then you will understand it, not by reading about it on the internet or listening to what people class as 'northern'. Give it a try, you might like it. Then again the reality that it's predominantly a roomful of blokes the wrong side of 40 who can dance better than you & tell you more about rare soul than you have days left to live might be a little... dorkish for you
They've visited quite a lot of places over the years, all the above plus shops, warehouses, rubbish tips, shacks, farms, trailers, everywhere. and they bought up most of the 45's from the late 60s and shipped them to the UK in the process. The 'insular dances' is a pointless dig, seeing as they're based on performers like Jackie Wilson in the first instance. What is so wrong a bunch of people, thousands of them, absolutely loving collecting and dancing to predominantly to black american music from the late 60's to the point where its not even hero worship, it's a lifestyle and borderline religion. They're happy, you don't understand it, why bother trying to. I don't understand people being into the metal or hard rock scenes. So what. no big deal, let them get on with it.
It's not a pointless dig because it's not a dig. As specific as the interest/scene is, it's bound to be so. It would be a little strange for me, a poster on Soul Strut, to make a dig at something being insular, don't you think?
Your fight is not with me. I have not said one thing to doubt or ridicule passion, dedication or good times. If you revisit what I did write, my question is about the perplexing Christopher Columbus attitude demonstrated in the two quotes.
i'm not fighting with anyone believe me.
I am interested to know when most people in the USA first became aware of the northern soul scene, because if you want to use the Christopher Columbus attitude, then it's true that is what happened in the period with those records. They were worthless in the USA, and many are now worth hundreds and thousands of dollars each. I'd hazard a guess that most people in the USA became aware via the internet, and the horse had bolted well over a decade before by that point, and those records were in the UK in their millions. The dealers & shops didn't know about it on the whole, or the artists when someone found their name in a local phone book and knocked on their door saying 'hello, i'm from England and i'm a big fan of your records' that they'd forgotten about after they flopped. I'm not part of the northern scene anymore through personal choice, but to see misinformation and negativity bandied around about it just didn't seem fair to the people that are on it. Not that they'd be that bothered as it's happened for years LOL
I been to a handfull of NS parties BITD that were held in the East Village.
They were cool and yet it seemed to be kinda like the Rockabilly scene. 5 veterans, 30 fans, and 20 casuals.
Shit aint no diff from Star Trek Conventions, Breakdance revivalism, Rennaissance Fairs, or Golden Age Hip Hop DJ Curators (talmbout choppin up Walk On By for an internet competition). Lets do the time warp agaaaaaaaaain........
Please tell me they don't have Rennaissance Faires in NYC.
b/w
Employment opportunities for ex Dead Heads and Rainbow Peoples.
There's a tremendous concentration of passionate soul fans in the UK, and I think it's fair to acknowledge their contribution to keeping soul music alive. Personally, I learned a lot about soul music from the northern soul scene. But I agree that it would be arrogant to say that the northern scene single-handedly kept 60s/70s soul music alive, or that they have a unique passion for the music that no one else can match.
I also agree that prices are silly, but they will decline at some point. The average northern soul collector, who is probably +50 years old, vastly outnumbers the younger generation who is just entering the game of collecting soul 45s. The old generation of collectors will begin to sell off their collections for different reasons within the next decade or so. Some probably expect a nice retirement with the money they can make from selling their collections, and others may prefer to sell their records while they are still alive instead of leaving the job to family members. Generally speaking, I think prices have already declined over the past 5-8 years, but I think that we have only seen the beginning of this decline. Hopefully, soul records will be more affordable in the future.
Apologies, i couldn't resist.
I don't think you maybe read my comments though, i do regularly go to northern nights and i know some djs, i have sold records to them and dj'd with them on occasion. My first experiences djing was actually with ex northern djs.
I think you're just defending something that obviously means a lot to you, which is sweet and definitely honourable and i meant my comments in a light-hearted way, even though they obviously rustled your jimmies.
Though, i will say that if you gave up on the scene a while back, whereas i still attend events... doesn't that make me more qualified to comment on it than you? :p
Only kidding, keep fighting the good fight.
I can assure you that most people in the USA have never heard of the Northern soul scene.
That includes fans of Jackie Wilson and Deon Jackson.
The only people who have heard of the scene are record sellers, djs and online record buyers.
Many of those people know nothing about the scene or the people in it, only that certain records labeled Northern sell for a lot of money.
I have nothing but good things to say about the people I have met and dealt with who are part of the scene.
But many of them are purists and are as annoying as a folky who can't abide electric guitars, or a blues fans that will only listen to people who picked cotton, or a hip hop fan who only likes music that acknowledges the 4 elements or the jazz fan who hates electric keyboards.
Like any other purist pursuit it baffles and amuses me.
The records that are worth thousands are only worth thousands to the first few buyers.
Like other purists they like some music which is not very good because it shares key conventions with actual good records.
All I know about the scene is that it is comprised of highly opinionated, nerdy, obsessive men who like to dance all night to their favorite records.
Which also describes me so I'm not complaining.
Your comments that Americans don't care about their own culture are wrong.
That is what has some people here upset.
I suppose that answers the OPs original question.
What I will say is, I love stumbling across NS sellers on ebay because usually what 'I' find of value - they are willing to sell me for dirt cheap. Win/Win I suppose?
Dope. Didn't know there was an older version of this
aka the sample for this
From: http://dereksdaily45.blogspot.dk/2011/05/creations-dream-bw-footsteps.html
The flip is a killer as well
Loving this too. Gonna have to check the whole album.
Keb Darge interview
I was at one of the nights of small soul weekender this past saturday, they're playing disco, crossover, some latin soul and so on. I don't think that many soul collectors are strictly about the classic amphetamine northern stuff anymore. Purists are generally annoying, humorless assholes no matter the genre or style.
The one at Lighthouse in Stockholm? Heard it was dope!
Yup, that's the one!
You really want any of those dudes to be dancing? The Brits with their pork-pie hats and the American crusties with their stained t-shirts. No thank you on both counts.