News flash. Veterans do not vote overwhelmingly for Republicans.
Veterans who are older white males tend to be about as republican or democrat as other older white males.
Younger vets tend to vote about the same as other young people.
When predicting how a group votes other variables, such as age, race, income, education are much better predictors than military service. Vets vote more or less the same as others in their demographic group.
Despite the stereotypes that many have of veterans.
News flash. Veterans do not vote overwhelmingly for Republicans.
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I guess that depends on how you define overwhelmingly...in the 2008 election where Obama spanked McCain, veterans voted for McCain 55% vs. 45%.
In a Gallup poll earlier this year.....
PRINCETON, NJ -- U.S. veterans, about 13% of the adult population and consisting mostly of older men, support Mitt Romney over Barack Obama for president by 58% to 34%, while nonveterans give Obama a four-percentage-point edge.
[Problem is Romney said half the green compaines are out of business. That's a lie.
This statement was a lie.........We all know about Solyndra and the Chevy Volt(and the other 11 green companies that went under)
What are one or two of the biggest successes of the government sponsored green energy companies?
30 out of 36 = 11 now? Check your figures.
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There are at least 11 that can not be defined as anything but abject failures...I'll list them here if you insist, but only if you defend any of them specifically as not being failures. (Yeah, even the one that was bought and bailed out by an Oil Company).
[Problem is Romney said half the green compaines are out of business. That's a lie.
This statement was a lie.........We all know about Solyndra and the Chevy Volt(and the other 11 green companies that went under)
What are one or two of the biggest successes of the government sponsored green energy companies?
30 out of 36 = 11 now? Check your figures.
.
There are at least 11 that can not be defined as anything but abject failures...I'll list them here if you insist, but only if you defend any of them specifically as not being failures. (Yeah, even the one that was bought and bailed out by an Oil Company).
You can list them if you like, Rock. But, if any of them have not filed for bankruptcy, you're list would be wrong. Still in business means still in business.
And, I'd like to revise my figure from 30/36, to 30/33. Thanks in advance.
[Problem is Romney said half the green compaines are out of business. That's a lie.
This statement was a lie.........We all know about Solyndra and the Chevy Volt(and the other 11 green companies that went under)
What are one or two of the biggest successes of the government sponsored green energy companies?
30 out of 36 = 11 now? Check your figures.
.
There are at least 11 that can not be defined as anything but abject failures...I'll list them here if you insist, but only if you defend any of them specifically as not being failures. (Yeah, even the one that was bought and bailed out by an Oil Company).
You can list them if you like, Rock. But, if any of them have not filed for bankruptcy, you're list would be wrong. Still in business means still in business.
And, I'd like to revise my figure from 30/36, to 30/33. Thanks in advance.
I love matching my little pea brain against dudes with law degrees...it makes me look for the loopholes.
Yes, a company can file for bankrupcy or bankrupcy protection and still be in business.
I love matching my little pea brain against dudes with law degrees...it makes me look for the loopholes.
Yes, a company can file for bankrupcy or bankrupcy protection and still be in business.
Haha! I'm merely going by the standard that Romney put forward, that the companies had "gone out of business". You're changing the standard, that's even more dastardly than what the Prosecutor in my courtroom does sometimes. I'm going by the bankrutpcy standard of say, a Solyndra.
If they haven't even filed for bankruptcy protection, it's too soon to declare them a failure, let alone an "abject failure", IMO
Maybe I'm not being clear, so let's go with: if any on your list are still in business, it's not correct. Fair?
At the end of the day, to my knowlege, 3 out of 33 companies that received federal loans have failed. The money received was around 2% of all the money lent. That's not too shabby.
I love matching my little pea brain against dudes with law degrees...it makes me look for the loopholes.
Yes, a company can file for bankrupcy or bankrupcy protection and still be in business.
Haha! I'm merely going by the standard that Romney put forward, that the companies had "gone out of business". You're changing the standard, that's even more dastardly than what the Prosecutor in my courtroom does sometimes. I'm going by the bankrutpcy standard of say, a Solyndra.
If they haven't even filed for bankruptcy protection, it's too soon to declare them a failure, let alone an "abject failure", IMO
Maybe I'm not being clear, so let's go with: if any on your list are still in business, it's not correct. Fair?
I'll let you be the judge ....which of these are not an abject failure, and why?
1) Solar Trust of America: - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012
2) Bright Source: - . Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying.
3) Solyndra.
4)LSP Energy LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012
5) Energy Conversion Devices - On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy
6) Abound Solar: - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from the government then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy.
7) SunPower: - SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony?
8) Beacon Power: ??? Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after they received a $43 million Government loan guarantee.
9) Ecotality: ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees.
10) A123 Solar:- A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to Department of Energy loan guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M after a loss of $400M.
11) UniSolar - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers.
12) Azure Dynamics - Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in ???Stimulus??? money and received abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits. Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US. Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.
13) Evergreen Solar - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money and filed bankruptcy in late 2011.
14) Ener1 - Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant to make electric-car batteries but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.
15) Amonix Solar: ??? manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal tax credits and grants has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened
Still in business means not an abject failure. Again, these are long-term investments that will take time to bear fruit. We can resume this discussion in another 4 years.
Still in business means not an abject failure. Again, these are long-term investments that will take time to bear fruit. We can resume this discussion in another 4 years.
10 of them filed for bankrupcy which is a sign of great success.
b/w
More than half are not on this list because they are successful/not bankrupt.
Still in business means not an abject failure. Again, these are long-term investments that will take time to bear fruit. We can resume this discussion in another 4 years.
10 of them filed for bankrupcy which is a sign of great success.
Agree wholeheartedly with the point you're making here. Too soon to label them abject failures, though. Long term investments.
Romney called Tesla one of the losers in the debate.
What was that about?
I don't think Romney mentioned Tesla in the debates. I spoke of him in reference to the topic of solar energy because, even though Tesla was a scientist there is an economic lesson to be learned from him.
They're a Swedish company. Besides, their HQ is in Charlotte. Come on, Pat!
As I understand the story. Electrolux was a green energy failure on the Republicans side. (too be fair) th situation was Republicans offered the swedish company 5 buildings as a break to kick start them in the US ("longterm"). They could only get set up in two and eventually moved to Mexico.
Hence: "winners and losers, versus just the losers." comment.
Romney called Tesla one of the losers in the debate.
What was that about?
I don't think Romney mentioned Tesla in the debates. I spoke of him in reference to the topic of solar energy because, even though Tesla was a scientist there is an economic lesson to be learned from him.
They're a Swedish company. Besides, their HQ is in Charlotte. Come on, Pat!
As I understand the story. Electrolux was a green energy failure on the Republicans side. (too be fair) th situation was Republicans offered the swedish company 5 buildings as a break to kick start them in the US ("longterm"). They could only get set up in two and eventually moved to Mexico.
Hence: "winners and losers, versus just the losers." comment.
You sure about that?
Companies Shun Violent Mexico
Unrest Deters Electrolux, Whirlpool, Others Who Have Considered New South-of-the-Border Plants
They're a Swedish company. Besides, their HQ is in Charlotte. Come on, Pat!
As I understand the story. Electrolux was a green energy failure on the Republicans side. (too be fair) th situation was Republicans offered the swedish company 5 buildings as a break to kick start them in the US ("longterm"). They could only get set up in two and eventually moved to Mexico.
Hence: "winners and losers, versus just the losers." comment.
You sure about that?
Companies Shun Violent Mexico
Unrest Deters Electrolux, Whirlpool, Others Who Have Considered New South-of-the-Border Plants
Still in business means not an abject failure. Again, these are long-term investments that will take time to bear fruit. We can resume this discussion in another 4 years.
10 of them filed for bankrupcy which is a sign of great success.
b/w
More than half are not on this list because they are successful/not bankrupt.
But bankruptcy is successful, just ask the former CEO of Bain capital
Ok, I didn't know that. Yet, the point remains the same. You do the math.
Did you have a point? It seems that if you did, your point was that Electrolux moved to Mexico. They haven't.
No, it is that "green" initiatives have not paid off. Both parties have lost investments in their attempts to go green. Obama's campaign has benefited from some of the worst losses and Romney has a path that is safer, includes more jobs, and will help balance the budget.
Comments
Veterans who are older white males tend to be about as republican or democrat as other older white males.
Younger vets tend to vote about the same as other young people.
When predicting how a group votes other variables, such as age, race, income, education are much better predictors than military service. Vets vote more or less the same as others in their demographic group.
Despite the stereotypes that many have of veterans.
I guess that depends on how you define overwhelmingly...in the 2008 election where Obama spanked McCain, veterans voted for McCain 55% vs. 45%.
In a Gallup poll earlier this year.....
PRINCETON, NJ -- U.S. veterans, about 13% of the adult population and consisting mostly of older men, support Mitt Romney over Barack Obama for president by 58% to 34%, while nonveterans give Obama a four-percentage-point edge.
There are at least 11 that can not be defined as anything but abject failures...I'll list them here if you insist, but only if you defend any of them specifically as not being failures. (Yeah, even the one that was bought and bailed out by an Oil Company).
You can list them if you like, Rock. But, if any of them have not filed for bankruptcy, you're list would be wrong. Still in business means still in business.
And, I'd like to revise my figure from 30/36, to 30/33. Thanks in advance.
I love matching my little pea brain against dudes with law degrees...it makes me look for the loopholes.
Yes, a company can file for bankrupcy or bankrupcy protection and still be in business.
Haha! I'm merely going by the standard that Romney put forward, that the companies had "gone out of business". You're changing the standard, that's even more dastardly than what the Prosecutor in my courtroom does sometimes.
If they haven't even filed for bankruptcy protection, it's too soon to declare them a failure, let alone an "abject failure", IMO
Maybe I'm not being clear, so let's go with: if any on your list are still in business, it's not correct. Fair?
At the end of the day, to my knowlege, 3 out of 33 companies that received federal loans have failed. The money received was around 2% of all the money lent. That's not too shabby.
I'll let you be the judge ....which of these are not an abject failure, and why?
1) Solar Trust of America: - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012
2) Bright Source: - . Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying.
3) Solyndra.
4)LSP Energy LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012
5) Energy Conversion Devices - On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy
6) Abound Solar: - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from the government then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy.
7) SunPower: - SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony?
8) Beacon Power: ??? Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after they received a $43 million Government loan guarantee.
9) Ecotality: ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees.
10) A123 Solar:- A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to Department of Energy loan guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M after a loss of $400M.
11) UniSolar - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers.
12) Azure Dynamics - Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in ???Stimulus??? money and received abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits. Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US. Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.
13) Evergreen Solar - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money and filed bankruptcy in late 2011.
14) Ener1 - Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant to make electric-car batteries but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.
15) Amonix Solar: ??? manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal tax credits and grants has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened
10 of them filed for bankrupcy which is a sign of great success.
b/w
More than half are not on this list because they are successful/not bankrupt.
Close the thread now!
Game Over
Agree wholeheartedly with the point you're making here. Too soon to label them abject failures, though. Long term investments.
They're a Swedish company. Besides, their HQ is in Charlotte. Come on, Pat!
What was that about?
He was lying?
I don't think Romney mentioned Tesla in the debates. I spoke of him in reference to the topic of solar energy because, even though Tesla was a scientist there is an economic lesson to be learned from him.
There's no way this guy is PatrickCrazy.
As I understand the story. Electrolux was a green energy failure on the Republicans side. (too be fair) th situation was Republicans offered the swedish company 5 buildings as a break to kick start them in the US ("longterm"). They could only get set up in two and eventually moved to Mexico.
Hence: "winners and losers, versus just the losers." comment.
Were his lips moving?
You're probably right, but I'm not 100% sold. At the end of the day, it makes no difference to me.
You sure about that?
Companies Shun Violent Mexico
Unrest Deters Electrolux, Whirlpool, Others Who Have Considered New South-of-the-Border Plants
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703395204576023811983098994.html
Fixed
Ok, I didn't know that. Yet, the point remains the same. You do the math.
But bankruptcy is successful, just ask the former CEO of Bain capital
Did you have a point? It seems that if you did, your point was that Electrolux moved to Mexico. They haven't.
GatorToof is BearClaw.
Do not engage.
No, it is that "green" initiatives have not paid off. Both parties have lost investments in their attempts to go green. Obama's campaign has benefited from some of the worst losses and Romney has a path that is safer, includes more jobs, and will help balance the budget.
I prefer apple fritters, thank you.
Duly noted.