I'm not opening that gigantic can of worms. No matter what I list, you'll find fault and this whole thing will open up again. Kinda getting a but old, isn't it?
Awww...cmon dude. U did nothing wrong. Lets play.
There has to be an era before the Golden era right.
Well there had to be some joints that caused the paradigm shift for cats to realize that the game was killing it.
U can either give the usual joints or come with your own shit. Dont matter.
Fair enough. I'll break it down from my experience.
For me, it started with breakdancing- strictly my history here.
I was 6 after all but old enough to be curious about other music. From there, the late 80s brought me into PE, Eric B and Rakim, BDP etc. but, it was always a matter of learning new shit then looking back to see what else I may had been missing. Like discovering a label like Black Jazz and finding out more about the entire catalogue.
So from that as a real starting point in terms of hip hop, I collected pretty much everything until I found the sound I liked. JVC Force,K/Solo, Das Efx even tongue twista. I had a shit load of tapes - some of which I wish I still had and others not so much. Like the k9 Posse for instance.
And though I'll name some of the go-to records, given that I was 15 in 92, that's just how it is.
So PE opened up my eyes to politically charged lyrics and the Bomb Squad. Which in got me into James Briwn and family.
Marley Marl continued the JB theme and showed a different side of production.
Then I heard 3ft high and rising and loved the samples, the weirdness and pure creativity.
This intern, led me to start digging even more to things outside JB.
Pete Rock , Premo and Extra P did the same thing. Main Source was big in TO at the time.
Illnatic was and is the best blend of mcing and deejaying that I've ever heard.
Ultra magnetic opened up my ears quite a bit too.
Tribe, Native Tongues in general. All soulful. You've asked me to summarize 25 years of what I've listened to. Impossible. But I will say, that's what I grew up knowing as hip hop. And today, I still feel that way. As do many current artists. From Stones Throw to Def Jux etc. And now, rather than looking at the experience as a whole, you'll isolate specific references rather than the common theme: Soul. Pick away.
If I had time or really felt the need to "prove myself" I would. But each artist listed with exception of the ones I mentioned as I joke have seminal albums. Do u need me to say "It takes a nation of millions or Mecca and The Soul Brother? In this forum. On Soul Strut? I didn't think so.
If I had time or really felt the need to "prove myself" I would. But each artist listed with exception of the ones I mentioned as I joke have seminal albums. Do u need me to say "It takes a nation of millions or Mecca and The Soul Brother? In this forum. On Soul Strut? I didn't think so.
So if i was your kid and i asked you daddy what albums ushered in the so called Golden age u would jus give your personal history or would you give history?
"Well son what i liked is what it is. What people know as the Golden Age might be K9 Posse."
And check! Just as I called it. Instead of addressing the entire post, you isolate a JOKE and use that as a rebuttle attached to a point you fabricated. Folks, it just doesn't get any weaker than that.
For a quick play by play of where I predicted he'd go with this, check the very end of my long, boring useless attempt at proving myself to a complete stranger on the Internet,
And check! Just as I called it. Instead of addressing the entire post, you isolate a JOKE and use that as a rebuttle attached to a point you fabricated. Folks, it just doesn't get any weaker than that.
To me, it's kinda like how funk, as a whole, started losing its stride a bit in the late 70's early 80s.
OK, I see where you are heading at and you are right for Funk. Funk has to be gritty and fucked up recorded in a garage with shitty mics.
But here is the difference.
Every musical genre got its boundaries. Try to develope new Rock music. Its hard because if you leave the basic drums-bass-guitar formula you quickly off to something else than Rock.
But unfortunatly you choosed to love the only musical genre that exists which is boundarieless.
To me Dubstep/Brostep or whatever you want to call it, Glitch Hop, Wonky even Techno and House are more or less HipHop. Some are more distant relatives some are nearer.
But if a DJ is cutting those genres up, and a MC is spitting on it, its HipHop period.
HipHop is like Borg, "your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"
So I get what you are saying regarding Funk, but HipHop music is universal and I'm really apreciating that all these new developments are happening because if I check for a 90s backpacker party all I get to hear are these 200 classics that a chimpanse could rock a crowd with.
These classics are played to death by DJs that are afraid to play something diffrent.
I'll love to slap DJs that spin "Next Episode" or "Simon Says" or "Shimmy Shimmy Ya".
And the crowd at those partys ??
Play "Brooklyn Zoo" to avoid playing "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and a idiot will walk up to the booth and show you his mobile with the text "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" written on display.
FU
In the future someone will say "it was better back in the days", and he will mean today.
Prefuse 73 is a good example of a dude that used the basic elements but evolved them. Still true to a certain firm but updated and fresh. Well at the time I guess. Even that was a while ago. Quasimodo too. Nice take on an old formula.
These responses are quite popular underneath videos like 'Shimmy Shimmy Ya', 'Simon Says' and probably everyone of your favourite classic golden age hip hop songs on youtube.
"thanks for posting! nice to remember a time when music was real! not like today with all the Lady Gagas and Justin Biebers, the kids just don't know any more"
Nor have I implied that all of the hip hop coming out today sucks. There's just more general support for the cookie cutter shit Puff Daddy ushered in. Lightheaded. Puts. Quantic. Time Machine. Ohmega Watts. Danny Breaks. Amon Tobin. Just a few in a long list of cats that are keeping it soulful. Moody Mann on the house tip also. Moonstaar. Four Hero. LTJ Bukem. Tons of good shit in 2012.
Question: Does the stuff that you dig today still have elements of 90s style shit? If so what? And if not, what's missing/different?
this is such a dumb question.... i hate how these type dudes always ry to frame the conversation as if its as simple/obvious as Illmatic vs Flo-rida and LMFAO or some shit. there's so much shit in between. straight garbage from your "golden era" and straight bangers from 2012.... and vice versa. styles change and evolve, but, believe there is a loooot of good music being put out right now
and what does "elements of 90s style shit" even mean. there's tons of hot new shit that is sample based w/ hard drums and nice flow. or do u not like what teh rappers rap about now....
you are absolutely entitled to like what you like. I'd just avoid placing value judgements on your own subjective preferences. I teach a lot of kids music production, and some of them only really like 90's hip hop. Thats totally chill. Its a different sound for the most part than whats popular in the mainstream today, and if thats what floats your boat? Awesome.
Where folks get into trouble is suggesting that anything else is "Hollow" or "cookie cutter". Just because its not your thing, can't you just not listen to it? Do you have to object to its existence? Do you have to challenge its artistic credibility?
The older I get, the less I understand this kind of thinking. Of course you like what you like. No one is suggesting that you have to be into anything that you're not, but wheres the problem with allowing things to change and develop and adress them as they come.
Not discounting anything. In fact, my last post listed at least 10 artists from today that I'm feeling. I could fill a page. Or ten. And least half of them would have no relation to the elements I appreciate in hip hop.
What are 90s style elements u ask? Do I really need to answer that? I shouldn't. So when people say Damu sounds like the 90s, what do YOU think they mean? Or Thes One? Enlighten me. Apparently I have no idea what I'm talking about.
We're actually debating different things as most of what I've said has been reinterpreted to fit some sort of narrow minded way of thinking, and not what I originally said. Not at all.
I rest my case, because at thus point my "case" isn't mine at all. Your manipulated version is. And that is when a logical debate becomes useless banter.
Let's take a quick look at where this started and how "judgemental" and "narrow-minded I'm being": (Brackets) around admitting this is not fact, but in fact a possible flaw in the way I look at things.
I'm 36. So I was lucky enough to grow up during what( I consider )he prime era for hip hop. (In my opinion of course). But here's the one critique I've received by more than one person: "You're stuck. Things have to progress. That era did their thing. Now it's time to move on" This is usually in response to both my allegiance to the boom bap, sample heavy 90s standards and the fact that I seek out artists today that are on the same vibe. Damu. PUTS. Lightheaded. Lootpack. Asheru etc.
To me that is hip hop. (I know that's narrow minded for sure), and I'm speaking primarily about production, but the way I look at it, once you take the dusty samples, the MPCS, SP12s, ASR 10s, cuts, digging etc out of the picture, you're left with a very hollow shell. An approximation of what hip hop is.
I'm all for progression. But I also liken it to taking an essential element out of any genre. Like removing drums from funk. Or bullshit from New country.
(Anyone follow what I'm saying or am I just a jaded old guy?)
Does this really sound like I'm stating a fact or asking a question? Admitting a potential flaw in the way I look at things? Cuz that's what I'm reading.
To me that is hip hop. (I know that's narrow minded for sure), and I'm speaking primarily about production, but the way I look at it, once you take the dusty samples, the MPCS, SP12s, ASR 10s, cuts, digging etc out of the picture, you're left with a very hollow shell. An approximation of what hip hop is.
That's the problematic paragraph for me. "that is hip-hop" just doesnt sound right. Its an opinion, but its phrased in a way that makes it sound as something not completely subjective. Plus, you hear the refrain of the "golden era gone by" in songs from 93-95 all the time. Dudes talking about how its not the same anymore... Every generation says the same thing.. There are youtube comments commenting on like late 90's jiggy-era stuff sayin the SAME THING.
Im fine with drums taken out of funk btw. If its sounds dope.
In regards to your question, you can check out my album - DJ Alibi - "One Day" from 2007 - Lots of boombap and the fippage of the crustiest of braekz.
Just like a movie review that says " Great Film" but chops out the part of the sentence before it that said " This could have been a" you omitted the parts of my post that framed my statement as a question, not a statement. An opinion that I admit and question as being flawed.
So, my car has been broken down and been at my girls house for a few months. While I was in the hospital my girlfriend's brilliant roommate Betty decided to do this to my car in a drunken stupor. Thats shaving cream/rock salt/cigarette snipes and ash on the paint. In the interior she poured rock salt all in the console and shifter and threw a bag of trash in there also. I have no idea why she did this and neither does my girl. Shes always been nice to me and vice versa. Can I get her arrested for property damage? or maybe vandalism? I really don't even care but I feel like I should teach her a lesson.
Question: Does the stuff that you dig today still have elements of 90s style shit?
This is all to small for me. I'm listening to so much diffrent music that I have to answer yes and no. I still listen to stuff thats deeply rooted in a 90s fashion. Roc Marciano is best, but theres not much beside him in the states I like. Here in Germany there is a scene of people who do stuff beat wise which is some of the best 90s productions I know of. You wont get the lyrics, but check those beats:
Comments
Awww...cmon dude. U did nothing wrong. Lets play.
There has to be an era before the Golden era right.
Well there had to be some joints that caused the paradigm shift for cats to realize that the game was killing it.
U can either give the usual joints or come with your own shit. Dont matter.
Join the club. Dont be afraid to get clowned.
For me, it started with breakdancing- strictly my history here.
I was 6 after all but old enough to be curious about other music. From there, the late 80s brought me into PE, Eric B and Rakim, BDP etc. but, it was always a matter of learning new shit then looking back to see what else I may had been missing. Like discovering a label like Black Jazz and finding out more about the entire catalogue.
So from that as a real starting point in terms of hip hop, I collected pretty much everything until I found the sound I liked. JVC Force,K/Solo, Das Efx even tongue twista. I had a shit load of tapes - some of which I wish I still had and others not so much. Like the k9 Posse for instance.
And though I'll name some of the go-to records, given that I was 15 in 92, that's just how it is.
So PE opened up my eyes to politically charged lyrics and the Bomb Squad. Which in got me into James Briwn and family.
Marley Marl continued the JB theme and showed a different side of production.
Then I heard 3ft high and rising and loved the samples, the weirdness and pure creativity.
This intern, led me to start digging even more to things outside JB.
Pete Rock , Premo and Extra P did the same thing. Main Source was big in TO at the time.
Illnatic was and is the best blend of mcing and deejaying that I've ever heard.
Ultra magnetic opened up my ears quite a bit too.
Tribe, Native Tongues in general. All soulful. You've asked me to summarize 25 years of what I've listened to. Impossible. But I will say, that's what I grew up knowing as hip hop. And today, I still feel that way. As do many current artists. From Stones Throw to Def Jux etc. And now, rather than looking at the experience as a whole, you'll isolate specific references rather than the common theme: Soul. Pick away.
So if i was your kid and i asked you daddy what albums ushered in the so called Golden age u would jus give your personal history or would you give history?
"Well son what i liked is what it is. What people know as the Golden Age might be K9 Posse."
I know.
OK, I see where you are heading at and you are right for Funk. Funk has to be gritty and fucked up recorded in a garage with shitty mics.
But here is the difference.
Every musical genre got its boundaries. Try to develope new Rock music. Its hard because if you leave the basic drums-bass-guitar formula you quickly off to something else than Rock.
But unfortunatly you choosed to love the only musical genre that exists which is boundarieless.
To me Dubstep/Brostep or whatever you want to call it, Glitch Hop, Wonky even Techno and House are more or less HipHop. Some are more distant relatives some are nearer.
But if a DJ is cutting those genres up, and a MC is spitting on it, its HipHop period.
HipHop is like Borg, "your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile"
So I get what you are saying regarding Funk, but HipHop music is universal and I'm really apreciating that all these new developments are happening because if I check for a 90s backpacker party all I get to hear are these 200 classics that a chimpanse could rock a crowd with.
These classics are played to death by DJs that are afraid to play something diffrent.
I'll love to slap DJs that spin "Next Episode" or "Simon Says" or "Shimmy Shimmy Ya".
And the crowd at those partys ??
Play "Brooklyn Zoo" to avoid playing "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and a idiot will walk up to the booth and show you his mobile with the text "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" written on display.
FU
In the future someone will say "it was better back in the days", and he will mean today.
Peace
Hawkeye
"thanks for posting! nice to remember a time when music was real! not like today with all the Lady Gagas and Justin Biebers, the kids just don't know any more"
this is such a dumb question.... i hate how these type dudes always ry to frame the conversation as if its as simple/obvious as Illmatic vs Flo-rida and LMFAO or some shit. there's so much shit in between. straight garbage from your "golden era" and straight bangers from 2012.... and vice versa. styles change and evolve, but, believe there is a loooot of good music being put out right now
and what does "elements of 90s style shit" even mean. there's tons of hot new shit that is sample based w/ hard drums and nice flow. or do u not like what teh rappers rap about now....
:lalala:
you are absolutely entitled to like what you like. I'd just avoid placing value judgements on your own subjective preferences. I teach a lot of kids music production, and some of them only really like 90's hip hop. Thats totally chill. Its a different sound for the most part than whats popular in the mainstream today, and if thats what floats your boat? Awesome.
Where folks get into trouble is suggesting that anything else is "Hollow" or "cookie cutter". Just because its not your thing, can't you just not listen to it? Do you have to object to its existence? Do you have to challenge its artistic credibility?
The older I get, the less I understand this kind of thinking. Of course you like what you like. No one is suggesting that you have to be into anything that you're not, but wheres the problem with allowing things to change and develop and adress them as they come.
Its just music.
What are 90s style elements u ask? Do I really need to answer that? I shouldn't. So when people say Damu sounds like the 90s, what do YOU think they mean? Or Thes One? Enlighten me. Apparently I have no idea what I'm talking about.
We're actually debating different things as most of what I've said has been reinterpreted to fit some sort of narrow minded way of thinking, and not what I originally said. Not at all.
I rest my case, because at thus point my "case" isn't mine at all. Your manipulated version is. And that is when a logical debate becomes useless banter.
I'm 36. So I was lucky enough to grow up during what( I consider )he prime era for hip hop. (In my opinion of course). But here's the one critique I've received by more than one person: "You're stuck. Things have to progress. That era did their thing. Now it's time to move on" This is usually in response to both my allegiance to the boom bap, sample heavy 90s standards and the fact that I seek out artists today that are on the same vibe. Damu. PUTS. Lightheaded. Lootpack. Asheru etc.
To me that is hip hop. (I know that's narrow minded for sure), and I'm speaking primarily about production, but the way I look at it, once you take the dusty samples, the MPCS, SP12s, ASR 10s, cuts, digging etc out of the picture, you're left with a very hollow shell. An approximation of what hip hop is.
I'm all for progression. But I also liken it to taking an essential element out of any genre. Like removing drums from funk. Or bullshit from New country.
(Anyone follow what I'm saying or am I just a jaded old guy?)
Does this really sound like I'm stating a fact or asking a question? Admitting a potential flaw in the way I look at things? Cuz that's what I'm reading.
That's the problematic paragraph for me. "that is hip-hop" just doesnt sound right. Its an opinion, but its phrased in a way that makes it sound as something not completely subjective. Plus, you hear the refrain of the "golden era gone by" in songs from 93-95 all the time. Dudes talking about how its not the same anymore... Every generation says the same thing.. There are youtube comments commenting on like late 90's jiggy-era stuff sayin the SAME THING.
Im fine with drums taken out of funk btw. If its sounds dope.
In regards to your question, you can check out my album - DJ Alibi - "One Day" from 2007 - Lots of boombap and the fippage of the crustiest of braekz.
FUUUUSK!!!
This is all to small for me. I'm listening to so much diffrent music that I have to answer yes and no. I still listen to stuff thats deeply rooted in a 90s fashion. Roc Marciano is best, but theres not much beside him in the states I like. Here in Germany there is a scene of people who do stuff beat wise which is some of the best 90s productions I know of. You wont get the lyrics, but check those beats:
But at the same time I'm listening to this:
Rapwise I'm listening to this right now: