Golden Era Hip Hop

Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
edited August 2012 in Strut Central
I'm 36. So I was lucky enough to grow up during what I consider the prime era for hip hop. In my opinion of course. But here's the one critique I've received by more than one person: "You're stuck. Things have to progress. That era did their thing. Now it's time to move on" This is usually in response to both my allegiance to the boom bap, sample heavy 90s standards and the fact that I seek out artists today that are on the same vibe. Damu. PUTS. Lightheaded. Lootpack. Asheru etc.

To me that is hip hop. I know that's narrow minded for sure, and I'm speaking primarily about production, but the way I look at it, once you take the dusty samples, the MPCS, SP12s, ASR 10s, cuts, digging etc out of the picture, you're left with a very hollow shell. An approximation of what hip hop is.

I'm all for progression. But I also liken it to taking an essential element out of any genre. Like removing drums from funk. Or bullshit from New country.

Anyone follow what I'm saying or am I just a jaded old guy?
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  Comments



  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Extremely narrowminded. Recorded hip-hop started out with few to no samples. And then there is the whole 808 style of hip-hop as well. How can one say Mantronix isn't some of the best produced of all-time? Point being, you gotta have tunnel-vision to isolate the boom-bap era as the only true ish out there.

    Also, the golden era of hip-hop was from like 88-92 and more likley characterized by funky James Brown samples than by the darker jazz styles of the boom-bap era that overlapped with it in time.

  • EkiMEkiM 40 Posts
    same thing for me. best jungle tunes 92 / 97 ... there's still shitloads of stuff coming out now but i seem to prefer the ones that stay close to the sound i've grown to love. things are just moving a bit too fast for my own pace.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Never said anything about Mantronix. And hip hop did start with samples as the based of production. Rhyming over disco breaks etc. The sampler I guess was two turntables and later, pause tapes.

    The more 808 focused stuff, to me, was an off shoot of that.

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m71d4g0IOm1qg8c39o1_1280.png

    Still hip hop, but not technically the roots.

    Not discounting everything else that fell out of it. Just saying I prefer the sample based style I grew up with. And I'm glad that producers - Soul Strut people included - continue that tradition.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Again, just my opinion. Such a subjective thing really has no right or wrong answer I guess.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    Not discounting everything else that fell out of it. Just saying I prefer the sample based style I grew up with..

    Well then just say that and dont try to alter history by saying what YOU grew up on is the "Golden Era".

    And turntables are NOT samplers. They are two different TOOLS.

    This is 101 shit.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    To me that is hip hop. I know that's narrow minded for sure, and I'm speaking primarily about production, but the way I look at it, once you take the dusty samples, the MPCS, SP12s, ASR 10s, cuts, digging etc out of the picture, you're left with a very hollow shell. An approximation of what hip hop is.?



  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Sampling, as a method, can take many forms. Pause tapes are a form of sampling. As is going back and forth to a break. And I'm not altering history in terms of what I said at all. I just mentioned that I grew up in what "I consider" the Golden Era of hip hop. By saying "I consider" I'm not implying that this is fact. Just my opinion and experience.

    101 shit? Not necessary. Just thought I'd open up a discussion. Not gonna take it to the playground.

    I know music has to evolve. But sometimes I guess I'm not into where it ends up. I mean look at labels like Daptone and Soul Fire. They're not reinventing anything. That's their definition of funk. I'm on the same page. Same with groups like PUTS etc..I just happen to define hip hop in the same terms and can't think of an instance of when it's evolved into something I prefer. Maybe the Roots, but again, that evolution is minimal since they still adhere to the sound that producers sample.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Not sure what that proves. Other than the drum pattern they're mimicking is based on funk patterns.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Just a question. Not a statement of fact.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    So when you say hip-hop that you grew up with, let me guess the chronology.

    When you weren't bombing trains, you used to carry Kool Herc's crates to his gigs in the South Bronx.

    But then when rap records started coming out ala Kurtis Blow and Sugarhill and Bambaataa, you realized instead of samples actually being used, in-house bands were replaying all of that shit...and thus, you hated all that garbage.

    Run DMC...to hell with them, not even real hip-hop.

    But when Marley Marl started chopping up James Brown like there was no tomorrow, okay...finally after almost 10 years of dismissing anything calling itself rap, back into it bigtime.

    And then DJ Premier, oh DJ Premier...if only he could produce every single piece of conceivable rap until the end of eternity. Now, that would be fab.

    But wait, what are all of these other people doing? They seem to be having fun in 15 different ways without samples. How dare them.

    Alright, let me just slip back into this DJ Premier bath. Is that you tickling my feet, J-Dilla? Please pass me the soap, Madlib.

    See, a story best kept to yourself.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    No. A story best read in detail so to not be misinterpreted. AGAIN. I'm not discounting the way things evolved or changed. Or am I proclaiming that I was in the Bronx when it all went down. These are things that you gathered from my post, and I'm not quite sure how.

    I'm just saying that I, me, myself, gravitate towards the fundamentals. And yes, those fundamentals may differ from person-to-person, but for what I like, and know to be the basis of where it all began, dusty breaks and samples, however you want to hook them up are an essential part of hip hip. As is a DJ and an MC.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    Sampling, as a method, can take many forms. Pause tapes are a form of sampling. As is going back and forth to a break. And I'm not altering history in terms of what I said at all. I just mentioned that I grew up in what "I consider" the Golden Era of hip hop. By saying "I consider" I'm not implying that this is fact. Just my opinion and experience.

    101 shit? Not necessary. Just thought I'd open up a discussion. Not gonna take it to the playground.

    I know music has to evolve. But sometimes I guess I'm not into where it ends up. I mean look at labels like Daptone and Soul Fire. They're not reinventing anything. That's their definition of funk. I'm on the same page. Same with groups like PUTS etc..I just happen to define hip hop in the same terms and can't think of an instance of when it's evolved into something I prefer. Maybe the Roots, but again, that evolution is minimal since they still adhere to the sound that producers sample.

    How is "I consider" an opening to discussion?

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Not sure what the argument is here. Was meant to be a discussion. I could understand if I were preaching, but I'm not. I even called myself narrow minded and jaded.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Didn't know there was a strict set of rules in terms of how to initiate discourse. I consider, simply put, means I know my opinion is subjective. Without it, I'd be making a statement of fact. And I'm not.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Now officially stepping back to grade 5. Jesus. Why?

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    "So when you say hip-hop that you grew up with, let me guess the chronology.

    When you weren't bombing trains, you used to carry Kool Herc's crates to his gigs in the South Bronx.

    But then when rap records started coming out ala Kurtis Blow and Sugarhill and Bambaataa, you realized instead of samples actually being used, in-house bands were replaying all of that shit...and thus, you hated all that garbage.

    Run DMC...to hell with them, not even real hip-hop.

    But when Marley Marl started chopping up James Brown like there was no tomorrow, okay...finally after almost 10 years of dismissing anything calling itself rap, back into it bigtime.

    And then DJ Premier, oh DJ Premier...if only he could produce every single piece of conceivable rap until the end of eternity. Now, that would be fab.

    But wait, what are all of these other people doing? They seem to be having fun in 15 different ways without samples. How dare them.

    Alright, let me just slip back into this DJ Premier bath. Is that you tickling my feet, J-Dilla? Please pass me the soap, Madlib.

    See, a story best kept to yourself".

    The operative word here would be " Guess". This your interpretation of my experience. Very strange to base an observation and an argument of things you imagined, isn't it? And the bath tub thing? Just plain creepy.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    You've jumped into a bees nest here where we've suffered 15 years of lames spouting the exact same opinions as yours. It's of course your right to prefer whichever music your heart desires. But as previously mentioned, you don't need to attempt to rewrite well-established history in an effort to justify your preference. Boom-bap is great, but it's far from the end-all, be-all when it comes to hip-hop, period.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Again. No re-writing. No discounting anything. Just raising an opinion. And now, responding to an oddly interpreted and relatively hostile response. Definitely not what I had in mind. Believe me.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    You don't happen to be from Toronto, do you?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    Again. No re-writing. No discounting anything. Just raising an opinion. And now, responding to an oddly interpreted and relatively hostile response. Definitely not what I had in mind. Believe me.

    Relax

    U started a thread called Golden Era instead of MY GOLDEN ERA.

    There are Private Mind Garden preferences and there are common agreed on happenings.

    How can we talk about the ERA if its YOUR set of rules?

    The whole "its my opinion and i dont see what the problem is here" isnt conducive to convo. Dontcha think?

    Why talk about it if u know your "stuck"?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    bassie said:
    You don't happen to be from Toronto, do you?

    Rumble in the Bronx is a 1995 Hong Kong martial arts action comedy film starring Jackie Chan and Anita Mui. Released in the US in 1995, Rumble in the Bronx had a successful theater run, and brought Chan into the American mainstream. The film is set in The Bronx area of New York City but was filmed in and around Vancouver.[1]

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Not sure I follow. Isn't it the same as saying that I prefer soul/funk from 68-74? That could, in that case, be called a "golden era" if that's what you gravitate towards. In any case. I meant well. Now I'm done before I get kicked off Soulstrut. Which would suck.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Sure. I didn't call it MY golden era. But to be fair, that's not a term I coined. People know what era that stands for. My words that followed explained that u wasn't saying that it is definititively.

  • BRO, THIS IS A REALLY COOL STORY.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    Sure. I didn't call it MY golden era. But to be fair, that's not a term I coined. People know what era that stands for. My words that followed explained that u wasn't saying that it is definititively.

    No, dude. Again, the golden era is different from the boom-bap era. They overlap, so there are many connections...but they are also clearly distinct from each other.

    Juice Crew-BDP-Eric B & Rakim = Golden Era.

    Gang Starr-Black Moon-Mobb Deep = Boom Bap Era.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,473 Posts
    Like what you like and stop giving a fuck what other people think about it.

    There, isn't that easy?

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    Agreed and well put.

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    Anto99 said:
    Sampling, as a method, can take many forms. Pause tapes are a form of sampling. As is going back and forth to a break.

    So is editing a movie a form of sampling?

    And I'm not altering history in terms of what I said at all.

    Perhaps not, but you appear to be trying to twist the facts to support your argument in a way you don't actually need to. Sampling has nothing to do with pause tapes or quick-mixing. Pause tapes and quick-mixing don't even have much to do with each other. It wouldn't invalidate your argument, however, if you were to suggest that pause tapes, quick-mixing and sampling were part of the same narrative, as far as hip-hop is concerned. I'd agree with that, as it happens.

    As far as my personal preferences in hip-hop are concerned, I'm a "try the buffet" guy these days.

  • Anto99Anto99 244 Posts
    But, on one hand, you say I can't define what the "golden era" is and then you offer your own take on how it is; ie crossover between golden era and boom bap" By mentioning the existence of this era, you're agreeing that it does in fact have a definition and a clear time period. That's stating a fact. Not leaving that era open to interpretation.

    I never defined certain years. I'm speaking about elements that define what hip hop in terms of what I like. And what I consider essential elements. Like a DJ etc. It's like people looking to groups like the Black Keys who are basically recreating a more raw, less polished sound derived from the 70s. Another era that many rock heads consider classic in terms of musicianship, creativity and lack of big label influence.
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