That was a bunch of stuff again that didn't address anything I actually asked. I'm thinking about giving up.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Gary said:
That was a bunch of stuff again that didn't address anything I actually asked. I'm thinking about giving up.
Yes, please give up thinking that I am your puppet.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
But as far as your bs comparison between religion and "conspiracy theory"...religion, at least the Christian religion, is based off of a book of fiction that represents a synthesis of mythic stories from the ancient past whereas "conspiracy theory" is based off of actual historical events. Again, when you see the evildoers do a, b, c, d, e, and f the same way, then you conclude even without access to any evidence that g must follow suit...that's not faith, but scientific analysis.
Yeah, faith is just as much a part of rationalism as it's part of religion or conspiracy theory. Science and history hang doggedly onto plausible theories until a new, better one comes along but while that theory's still in play doubters are given short shrift. In politics truth is a pretty malleable commodity so how much do you choose to believe? That's the key difference between conspiracists and the majority but it's totally subjective line. It's not a simple case of nutjobs over here, normals over there, is it? Conspiracy theories work on the same model of optimal plausibility as any other thesis, they're just usually starting from a radically different angle. Trying to probe why people are susceptible to conspiracy theories seems like a hiding to nothing. My 31 cents.
You have faith in the explanations and science provided by others. Enough that you play apologist for the end result of worldwide carnage. I just say that the explanations and science are nothing but a smoke screen that I simply shoo away to continue focusing on the end result of war, imprisonment, exploitation, manipulation, theft, etc. In other words, whether you say it's coming from legitimate sources or whatever, I think you are getting conned, however you want to slice and dice it. I mean, you tell me why you aren't calling for the complete overhaul of the system, from the way laws are made by a "2-party" dialectic to the way money is created out thin air to the way that unjust lies lead to unjust bombings to the way that we are the most incarcerated civilization ever to the way our public schools are failing to the way that all of our manufacturing jobs have been exported to the way this new health care package is a total sham, etc. It's like you are looking at a big steaming pile of shit, but saying well, science tells me that this giant terd actually doesn't stink that bad. Yet, it does. It stinks to high heaven. You've just found ways to excuse it is all. You'd rather appear to be "right" by way of approval from a compromised peanut gallery than to position yourself to actually do the right thing. We need to be angry enough to be motivated to action, but your methods which have been handed down to you as a means to keep you complacent are doing just that.
That you wouldn't put it past our government to engage in false flags and to stage fake news events only tells me that you haven't been paying attention to the past 50 years. Shit ain't new and your denial of its prevalence helps nobody.
But hey, you get to feel like big man looking down on others, and since in America that's what it's all about...right on, brother. Right on.
I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of the above, and in fact it sounds quite reasonable, even if I don't agree with ALL of it.
But to even suggest that Sandy Hook was staged is beyond incredibly insensitive and enough to set me off. More than that--it actually sounds insane. Like, literally insane.
I would love to hear how you can conclude that Sandy Hook is, or might be a staged event. Or, that you were misunderstood altogether, people took things out of context, and you're not actually crazy.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
parallax said:
HarveyCanal said:
You have faith in the explanations and science provided by others. Enough that you play apologist for the end result of worldwide carnage. I just say that the explanations and science are nothing but a smoke screen that I simply shoo away to continue focusing on the end result of war, imprisonment, exploitation, manipulation, theft, etc. In other words, whether you say it's coming from legitimate sources or whatever, I think you are getting conned, however you want to slice and dice it. I mean, you tell me why you aren't calling for the complete overhaul of the system, from the way laws are made by a "2-party" dialectic to the way money is created out thin air to the way that unjust lies lead to unjust bombings to the way that we are the most incarcerated civilization ever to the way our public schools are failing to the way that all of our manufacturing jobs have been exported to the way this new health care package is a total sham, etc. It's like you are looking at a big steaming pile of shit, but saying well, science tells me that this giant terd actually doesn't stink that bad. Yet, it does. It stinks to high heaven. You've just found ways to excuse it is all. You'd rather appear to be "right" by way of approval from a compromised peanut gallery than to position yourself to actually do the right thing. We need to be angry enough to be motivated to action, but your methods which have been handed down to you as a means to keep you complacent are doing just that.
That you wouldn't put it past our government to engage in false flags and to stage fake news events only tells me that you haven't been paying attention to the past 50 years. Shit ain't new and your denial of its prevalence helps nobody.
But hey, you get to feel like big man looking down on others, and since in America that's what it's all about...right on, brother. Right on.
I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of the above, and in fact it sounds quite reasonable, even if I don't agree with ALL of it.
But to even suggest that Sandy Hook was staged is beyond incredibly insensitive and enough to set me off. More than that--it actually sounds insane. Like, literally insane.
I would love to hear how you can conclude that Sandy Hook is, or might be a staged event. Or, that you were misunderstood altogether, people took things out of context, and you're not actually crazy.
As much as you'd like to deny this to people but there us still the option of believing neither, the government, the mainstream media nor infowars or whatever poisonous wingnut propaganda sources are out there. To me it's all just different shades of stupid. But to believe that government agencies would stage incidents like the Sandy Hook shooting or the Boston Marathon bombing definitely takes the kookoo cake in my book. Clogging the arteries of information even if located deep within the underbelly of the web with totally absurd stuff like this just helps "them" to get away with the shit "they" actually do perpetrate. So no, it's not science it's the conspiracy fantasies that are the smoke screen.
Yes, the Gulf of Tonkin, the sinking of the Maine, and WMDs were distorted to reach a desired result. That result, the why and how, are not shrouded in great mystery. They are simple power grabs made by men.
To jump from there to Georgia fedex shooting to shadow government to big banks to pyramids to Atlantis to aliens, just distracts.
Our country is dissolving into a kleptocracy. There is a lot to be alarmed about. But these theories just draw attention away from the culprits, and offer no solutions.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Yes, because the way y'all are handling things from within the opponent's arena is helping anything in any way whatsoever. Y'all are so mad that like-minded people who don't wish to even engage with the crooks that you coddle get organized and start showing force. You can't see that they are helping because you don't want to see it. It's like the way Americans treat Haiti. Rather than ever celebrating it as the first black republic of the new world, established by slave rebellion against an imperial power led by Napoleon no less...you choose to view Haiti through the eyes of their oppressor, the American pig who has for 200 years done everything possible to stifle their neighbor who is no threat to America in any way. It's a choice to step outside of the matrix, if you will. And it's a choice that has very little to do with the internet or Alex Jones or any of the side dishes y'all keep crying about. Real life dictates your path...and beyond the rhetoric, I'd much rather be with those who skip to the chase instead of spending a lifetime of hemming and hawing. There's nothing wrong with over-demonizing your enemy when that enemy has established itself as a legitimate threat to your well being. It's essential in fact. Many of y'all will need to decide what side you are going to be on and I'm afraid to tell you, my friends, that at this point you just might be on the wrong one.
Yes, because the way y'all are handling things from within the opponent's arena is helping anything in any way whatsoever. Y'all are so mad that like-minded people who don't wish to even engage with the crooks that you coddle get organized and start showing force. You can't see that they are helping because you don't want to see it. It's like the way Americans treat Haiti. Rather than ever celebrating it as the first black republic of the new world, established by slave rebellion against an imperial power led by Napoleon no less...you choose to view Haiti through the eyes of their oppressor, the American pig who has for 200 years done everything possible to stifle their neighbor who is no threat to America in any way. It's a choice to step outside of the matrix, if you will. And it's a choice that has very little to do with the internet or Alex Jones or any of the side dishes y'all keep crying about. Real life dictates your path...and beyond the rhetoric, I'd much rather be with those who skip to the chase instead of spending a lifetime of hemming and hawing. There's nothing wrong with over-demonizing your enemy when that enemy has established itself as a legitimate threat to your well being. It's essential in fact. Many of y'all will need to decide what side you are going to be on and I'm afraid to tell you, my friends, that at this point you just might be on the wrong one.
I'm not trying to be cute when I say this, Harv. It's an honest question:
If you hate 'mericuh so much, why do you live there?
You come off sounding righteous and indignant regarding shady gov't tactics, and your words seem to speak of a future uprising in which people will "have to choose what side they're on"...but you live there and you don't have to. No one is forcing you. Or is it that you enjoy the first world comforts but hate the means by which it exists?
Yes, because the way y'all are handling things from within the opponent's arena is helping anything in any way whatsoever. Y'all are so mad that like-minded people who don't wish to even engage with the crooks that you coddle get organized and start showing force.
What exactly is it that you are doing besides firing off scolding rants on half-dead message boards about records?
HarveyCanal said:
You can't see that they are helping because you don't want to see it.
Who's "they" and how exactly are they helping anybody?
HarveyCanal said:
It's like the way Americans treat Haiti. Rather than ever celebrating it as the first black republic of the new world, established by slave rebellion against an imperial power led by Napoleon no less...you choose to view Haiti through the eyes of their oppressor, the American pig who has for 200 years done everything possible to stifle their neighbor who is no threat to America in any way.
It's nice that you did read up on the history of one country outside of the US but as interesting and multi faceted its tragic history is, Haiti barely has much significance to any other place. The number of victimized countries on this planet is pretty vast and it is the hard toll of all of them that give the so called "developed world" their relative level of comfort and security a level of comfort and security that you too enjoy. TIp off this cruel balance (which inevitably is going to happen at some point) and you'll be very sorry you wished for it. If you're still around and living where you are now that is.
HarveyCanal said:
It's a choice to step outside of the matrix, if you will. And it's a choice that has very little to do with the internet or Alex Jones or any of the side dishes y'all keep crying about. Real life dictates your path...and beyond the rhetoric, I'd much rather be with those who skip to the chase instead of spending a lifetime of hemming and hawing.
Who led your steps outside of the matrix? And who are those others who you are with?
HarveyCanal said:
There's nothing wrong with over-demonizing your enemy when that enemy has established itself as a legitimate threat to your well being.
??? of course, there are several things that are deeply wrong with over-demonizing a (perceived) enemy. Doesn't the word "over-demonizing" already kind of sound like a not so smart thing to do? When you are in any sort of conflict with another party, wouldn't it be most important to still know what's real and what's not? Or do you feel like you need to launch yourself into a fit of burning rage in order to fight even harder, feel no pain and unleash total hell onto your enemy?
HarveyCanal said:
It's essential in fact. Many of y'all will need to decide what side you are going to be on and I'm afraid to tell you, my friends, that at this point you just might be on the wrong one.
Why would anybody have to feel like they have to chose a side to be on?
Any conflict that includes powers beyond my personal reach, especially if they appear demon-like and evil I would chose to decisively stay out of.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
parallax said:
I'm not trying to be cute when I say this, Harv. It's an honest question:
If you hate 'mericuh so much, why do you live there?
You come off sounding righteous and indignant regarding shady gov't tactics, and your words seem to speak of a future uprising in which people will "have to choose what side they're on"...but you live there and you don't have to. No one is forcing you. Or is it that you enjoy the first world comforts but hate the means by which it exists?
b/w
You sound like Adbusters on shrooms.
This is my home. Actually been thinking a lot lately about moving elsewhere. But I've got a daughter here, so unless her mom simultaneously decides with me that moving is in order, I'm dug in.
Plus, I do live in a slightly foreign country to America called Texas. Granted, Texas politics are appalling, but there are so many other great reasons to live here. Totally worth fighting for.
But yeah, America is run by murderous crooks. Stand by them and their corporate sponsors too long and you become them.
The us would be those who actually want the drastic change needed and aren't afraid to take the lumps that come with that.
This is my home. Actually been thinking a lot lately about moving elsewhere. But I've got a daughter here, so unless her mom simultaneously decides with me that moving is in order, I'm dug in.
Plus, I do live in a slightly foreign country to America called Texas. Granted, Texas politics are appalling, but there are so many other great reasons to live here. Totally worth fighting for.
But yeah, America is run by murderous crooks. Stand by them and their corporate sponsors too long and you become them.
The us would be those who actually want the drastic change needed and aren't afraid to take the lumps that come with that.
Choose your side wisely.
Harvey, out of curiosity, where are you thinking you could move to? I have lived and traveled abroad and I seriously interested in where you think that a government is more in line with your beliefs and ideals.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Saracenus said:
HarveyCanal said:
This is my home. Actually been thinking a lot lately about moving elsewhere. But I've got a daughter here, so unless her mom simultaneously decides with me that moving is in order, I'm dug in.
Plus, I do live in a slightly foreign country to America called Texas. Granted, Texas politics are appalling, but there are so many other great reasons to live here. Totally worth fighting for.
But yeah, America is run by murderous crooks. Stand by them and their corporate sponsors too long and you become them.
The us would be those who actually want the drastic change needed and aren't afraid to take the lumps that come with that.
Choose your side wisely.
Harvey, out of curiosity, where are you thinking you could move to? I have lived and traveled abroad and I seriously interested in where you think that a government is more in line with your beliefs and ideals.
It wouldn't be the government that drives me away from here nor attracts me to another place. It comes down to people. And here in Austin which to me was one of the last bastions of free thought in America, things have quickly gone south the past few years, with too many suburban generic uncultured mall people flooding out the remaining real people. I'm going to check out Costa Rica next month, not necessarily to move there...but I do have an old friend that's lived there for quite some time so if there's any opportunity for me down there, I'll certainly look into it.
give me a shout before you get here, maybe we can visit one of these yoga camps together... might mellow both of us out a bit.
Will do. I'll be staying at Playa Manzanillo.
You're talking about the Manzanillo on the Nicoya Peninsula and not the one on the Caribbean coast, right?
I'm not trying to bait you and I swear I'm not making this up but an old friend of ours, who's also from Texas by the way, just recently bought some property on the Nicoya, not far from Manzanillo. When he told us about what makes him want to leave the US behind and when he mentioned chemtrails I immediately had to think of you. Just after starting constructions on his house, workers arrived and not 400 yards away from what was going to be his front porch, began erecting an electrical tower for a new high voltage line. I swear this is a true story.
If you clear out your inbox I can pm you so we can try and hook up.
"An unfortunate and sometimes callous tendency of a die hard conspiracy buff is to instantly claim that a tragedy, be it a shooting, bombing, suicide, or stubbing their toe in the morning, is by some way fabricated by or the fault of the government. This is often done as a form of confirmation bias, motivated primarily by the earnest fervor and outrage that typically dominates a conspiracy theorist's life. Sometimes, such claims are also made cynically, either for political or financial profit.
"An even more unfortunate corollary of this is that any attempts at alternative explanations or deviations from orthodoxy are easily smeared as "conspiracy theories", and an overwhelming sentiment thus obtains where tragedies such as mass shootings, bombings, or suicides are "sacred" or "forbidden", and any discussion, whether in good faith or not, is fundamentally disrespectful. This line of reasoning is much more often used cynically by political figures to stifle discussion which could potentially reveal their incompetence, malfeasance, or general scumminess. "
It's almost as if somebody has been reading this thread!
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Frank said:
HarveyCanal said:
Frank said:
HarveyCanal said:
I'm going to check out Costa Rica next month...
give me a shout before you get here, maybe we can visit one of these yoga camps together... might mellow both of us out a bit.
Will do. I'll be staying at Playa Manzanillo.
You're talking about the Manzanillo on the Nicoya Peninsula and not the one on the Caribbean coast, right?
I'm not trying to bait you and I swear I'm not making this up but an old friend of ours, who's also from Texas by the way, just recently bought some property on the Nicoya, not far from Manzanillo. When he told us about what makes him want to leave the US behind and when he mentioned chemtrails I immediately had to think of you. Just after starting constructions on his house, workers arrived and not 400 yards away from what was going to be his front porch, began erecting an electrical tower for a new high voltage line. I swear this is a true story.
If you clear out your inbox I can pm you so we can try and hook up.
Yep, that's the Playa Manzanillo. I've got an old high school friend that's been living down there for about a dozen or so years now. Will be staying in one of the bungalows he rents out with another friend that traveling with me. My inbox here has been jacked since forever, so please send me an email at r2g2_53@hotmail.com
give me a shout before you get here, maybe we can visit one of these yoga camps together... might mellow both of us out a bit.
Will do. I'll be staying at Playa Manzanillo.
You're talking about the Manzanillo on the Nicoya Peninsula and not the one on the Caribbean coast, right?
I'm not trying to bait you and I swear I'm not making this up but an old friend of ours, who's also from Texas by the way, just recently bought some property on the Nicoya, not far from Manzanillo. When he told us about what makes him want to leave the US behind and when he mentioned chemtrails I immediately had to think of you. Just after starting constructions on his house, workers arrived and not 400 yards away from what was going to be his front porch, began erecting an electrical tower for a new high voltage line. I swear this is a true story.
If you clear out your inbox I can pm you so we can try and hook up.
Yep, that's the Playa Manzanillo. I've got an old high school friend that's been living down there for about a dozen or so years now. Will be staying in one of the bungalows he rents out with another friend that traveling with me. My inbox here has been jacked since forever, so please send me an email at r2g2_53@hotmail.com
Cool. Never been to the Nicoya myself but quite often to the Caribbean Mazanillo. We had dinner there once when a SWAT team rolled through and later found out that a couple hundred meters away a drug boat from Colombia had beached with nearly 2 tons of cocaine on board with the carew making a run for it into the jungle...
Yeah, that's a good example on how conspiracy theories are being used to ridicule genuine and well founded concern over some truly evil and most and for all completely unnecessary shit. The highly subsidized farming industry in the US already not only fucks up all the small farmers there but makes it completely impossible for 3rd world countries to compete in the world market. For example cotton is one of the main crops in Benin in West Africa, cotton farmers in the US are so highly subsidized that they can throw their shit on the world market at such a low price that they're literally taking much needed money out of the pockets of one of the poorest countries on the planet.
For the most part, the genetical engineering is done so crops can be produced more efficiently, specifically in the climates of the Northern US and Europe. Easy to see what this will lead to.
Corn in the US has been modified to contain more and more sugar, I couldn't eat this shit if I wanted. Last time I tried I had to throw it out after the first mouthful, sickingly sweet and disgusting. You can keep your mutant corn cobs and put them where the sun don't shine.
- The American Association For the Advancement of Science (or AAAS): ÔÇ£The science is quite clear: crop improvement by the modern molecular techniques of biotechnology is safe.ÔÇØ
- American Medical Association, the premier body of physicians in the US: ÔÇ£There is no scientific justification for special labeling of genetically modified foods. Bioengineered foods have been consumed for close to 20 years, and during that time, no over consequences on human health have been reported and/or substantiated in the peer-reviewed literature.ÔÇØ
- World Health Organization (or WHO) is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations system. They state: ÔÇ£No effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of GM foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved.ÔÇØ
- The National Academy of Sciences is a non-profit organization in the United States. It is the premier scientific body in the US. They state: ÔÇ£To date more than 98 million acres of genetically modified crops have been grown worldwide. No evidence of human health problems associated with the ingestion of these crops or resulting food products have been identified.ÔÇØ
- The Royal Society of Medicine is EnglandÔÇÖs top medical society and is an independent educational organization for doctors, dentists, scientists and others involved in medicine and health care. They state: ÔÇ£Foods derived from GM crops have been consumed by hundreds of millions of people across the world for more than 15 years, with no reported ill effects (or legal cases related to human health), despite many of the consumers coming from that most litigious of countries, the USA.ÔÇØ
- The European Commission (or EC) is the executive body of the European Union. They state: ÔÇ£The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that biotechnology, and in particular GMOs, are no more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies.ÔÇØ
- American Council on Science and Health: ÔÇØ[W]ith the continuing accumulation of evidence of safety and efficiency, and the complete absence of any evidence of harm to the public or the environment, more and more consumers are becoming as comfortable with agricultural biotechnology as they are with medical biotechnology.ÔÇØ
- American Dietetic Association: ÔÇØIt is the position of the American Dietetic Association that agricultural and food biotechnology techniques can enhance the quality, safety, nutritional value, and variety of food available for human consumption and increase the efficiency of food production, food processing, food distribution, and environmental and waste management.ÔÇØ
- American Phytopathological Society: ÔÇØThe American Phytopathological Society (APS), which represents approximately 5,000 scientists who work with plant pathogens, the diseases they cause, and ways of controlling them, supports biotechnology as a means for improving plant health, food safety, and sustainable growth in plant productivity.ÔÇØ
- American Society for Cell Biology: ÔÇØFar from presenting a threat to the public health, GM crops in many cases improve it. The ASCB vigorously supports research and development in the area of genetically engineered organisms, including the development of genetically modified (GM) crop plants.ÔÇØ
- American Society for Microbiology: ÔÇØThe ASM is not aware of any acceptable evidence that food produced with biotechnology and subject to FDA oversight constitutes high risk or is unsafe. We are sufficiently convinced to assure the public that plant varieties and products created with biotechnology have the potential of improved nutrition, better taste and longer shelf-life.ÔÇØ
- American Society of Plant Biologists: The risks of unintended consequences of this type of gene transfer are comparable to the random mixing of genes that occurs during classical breeding The ASPB believes strongly that, with continued responsible regulation and oversight, GE will bring many significant health and environmental benefits to the world and its people.
- International Seed Federation: The development of GM crops has benefited farmers, consumers and the environment Today, data shows that GM crops and foods are as safe as their conventional counterparts: millions of hectares worldwide have been cultivated with GM crops and billions of people have eaten GM foods without any documented harmful effect on human health or the environment.
- Council for Agricultural Science and Technology: ÔÇØOver the last decade, 8.5 million farmers have grown transgenic varieties of crops on more than 1 billion acres of farmland in 17 countries. These crops have been consumed by humans and animals in most countries. Transgenic crops on the market today are as safe to eat as their conventional counterparts, and likely more so given the greater regulatory scrutiny to which they are exposed.ÔÇØ
- Crop Science Society of America: ÔÇØThe Crop Science Society of America supports education and research in all aspects of crop production, including the judicious application of biotechnology.ÔÇØ
- International Society of African Scientists: ÔÇØAfrica and the Caribbean cannot afford to be left further behind in acquiring the uses and benefits of this new agricultural revolution.ÔÇØ
- Federation of Animal Science Societies: ÔÇØMeat, milk and eggs from livestock and poultry consuming biotech feeds are safe for human consumption.ÔÇØ
- Society for In Vitro Biology: ÔÇØThe SIVB supports the current science-based approach for the evaluation and regulation of genetically engineered crops. The SIVB supports the need for easy public access to available information on the safety of genetically modified crop products. In addition, the SIVB feels that foods from genetically modified crops, which are determined to be substantially equivalent to those made from crops, do not require mandatory labeling.ÔÇØ
- Consensus document on GMOs Safety (14 Italian scientific societies): ÔÇØGMOs on the market today, having successfully passed all the tests and procedures necessary to authorization, are to be considered, on the basis of current knowledge, safe to use for human and animal consumption.ÔÇØ
- Society of Toxicology: ÔÇØScientific analysis indicates that the process of GM food production is unlikely to lead to hazards of a different nature than those already familiar to toxicologists. The level of safety of current GM foods to consumers appears to be equivalent to that of traditional foods.ÔÇØ
- Transgenic Plants and World Agriculture ÔÇô Prepared by the Royal Society of London, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Indian National Science Academy, the Mexican Academy of Sciences, and the Third World Academy of Sciences:ÔÇ£Foods can be produced through the use of GM technology that are more nutritious, stable in storage, and in principle health promoting ÔÇô bringing benefits to consumers in both industrialized and developing nations.ÔÇØ
- French Academy of Science: ÔÇØAll criticisms against GMOs can be largely rejected on strictly scientific criteria.ÔÇØ
- Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities: ÔÇØFood derived from GM plants approved in the EU and the US poses no risks greater than those from the corresponding conventional food. On the contrary, in some cases food from GM plants appears to be superior with respect to health.ÔÇØ
- International Council for Science: ÔÇØCurrently available genetically modified crops ÔÇô and foods derived from them ÔÇô have been judged safe to eat, and the methods used to test them have been deemed appropriate.ÔÇØ
Of course they could all be shills for Monsanto.
But if you clarify what you mean by "good" then your question would be easier to answer. Safe to eat? Yes. Safe for bees? I don't know I guess I will look it up.
Comments
Yes, please give up thinking that I am your puppet.
But yeah, you really should give up.
I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of the above, and in fact it sounds quite reasonable, even if I don't agree with ALL of it.
But to even suggest that Sandy Hook was staged is beyond incredibly insensitive and enough to set me off. More than that--it actually sounds insane. Like, literally insane.
I would love to hear how you can conclude that Sandy Hook is, or might be a staged event. Or, that you were misunderstood altogether, people took things out of context, and you're not actually crazy.
Clearly, there would not be any convincing you.
Yes, the Gulf of Tonkin, the sinking of the Maine, and WMDs were distorted to reach a desired result. That result, the why and how, are not shrouded in great mystery. They are simple power grabs made by men.
To jump from there to Georgia fedex shooting to shadow government to big banks to pyramids to Atlantis to aliens, just distracts.
Our country is dissolving into a kleptocracy. There is a lot to be alarmed about. But these theories just draw attention away from the culprits, and offer no solutions.
I'm not trying to be cute when I say this, Harv. It's an honest question:
If you hate 'mericuh so much, why do you live there?
You come off sounding righteous and indignant regarding shady gov't tactics, and your words seem to speak of a future uprising in which people will "have to choose what side they're on"...but you live there and you don't have to. No one is forcing you. Or is it that you enjoy the first world comforts but hate the means by which it exists?
b/w
You sound like Adbusters on shrooms.
What exactly is it that you are doing besides firing off scolding rants on half-dead message boards about records?
Who's "they" and how exactly are they helping anybody?
It's nice that you did read up on the history of one country outside of the US but as interesting and multi faceted its tragic history is, Haiti barely has much significance to any other place. The number of victimized countries on this planet is pretty vast and it is the hard toll of all of them that give the so called "developed world" their relative level of comfort and security a level of comfort and security that you too enjoy. TIp off this cruel balance (which inevitably is going to happen at some point) and you'll be very sorry you wished for it. If you're still around and living where you are now that is.
Who led your steps outside of the matrix? And who are those others who you are with?
??? of course, there are several things that are deeply wrong with over-demonizing a (perceived) enemy. Doesn't the word "over-demonizing" already kind of sound like a not so smart thing to do? When you are in any sort of conflict with another party, wouldn't it be most important to still know what's real and what's not? Or do you feel like you need to launch yourself into a fit of burning rage in order to fight even harder, feel no pain and unleash total hell onto your enemy?
Why would anybody have to feel like they have to chose a side to be on?
Any conflict that includes powers beyond my personal reach, especially if they appear demon-like and evil I would chose to decisively stay out of.
Honest question Dizzy. Did you try and visit that link on a Government controlled network?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/army-blocks-the-guardian_n_3515374.html
This is my home. Actually been thinking a lot lately about moving elsewhere. But I've got a daughter here, so unless her mom simultaneously decides with me that moving is in order, I'm dug in.
Plus, I do live in a slightly foreign country to America called Texas. Granted, Texas politics are appalling, but there are so many other great reasons to live here. Totally worth fighting for.
But yeah, America is run by murderous crooks. Stand by them and their corporate sponsors too long and you become them.
The us would be those who actually want the drastic change needed and aren't afraid to take the lumps that come with that.
Choose your side wisely.
Harvey, out of curiosity, where are you thinking you could move to? I have lived and traveled abroad and I seriously interested in where you think that a government is more in line with your beliefs and ideals.
It wouldn't be the government that drives me away from here nor attracts me to another place. It comes down to people. And here in Austin which to me was one of the last bastions of free thought in America, things have quickly gone south the past few years, with too many suburban generic uncultured mall people flooding out the remaining real people. I'm going to check out Costa Rica next month, not necessarily to move there...but I do have an old friend that's lived there for quite some time so if there's any opportunity for me down there, I'll certainly look into it.
give me a shout before you get here, maybe we can visit one of these yoga camps together... might mellow both of us out a bit.
Will do. I'll be staying at Playa Manzanillo.
You're talking about the Manzanillo on the Nicoya Peninsula and not the one on the Caribbean coast, right?
I'm not trying to bait you and I swear I'm not making this up but an old friend of ours, who's also from Texas by the way, just recently bought some property on the Nicoya, not far from Manzanillo. When he told us about what makes him want to leave the US behind and when he mentioned chemtrails I immediately had to think of you. Just after starting constructions on his house, workers arrived and not 400 yards away from what was going to be his front porch, began erecting an electrical tower for a new high voltage line. I swear this is a true story.
If you clear out your inbox I can pm you so we can try and hook up.
"Latching to tragedy
"An unfortunate and sometimes callous tendency of a die hard conspiracy buff is to instantly claim that a tragedy, be it a shooting, bombing, suicide, or stubbing their toe in the morning, is by some way fabricated by or the fault of the government. This is often done as a form of confirmation bias, motivated primarily by the earnest fervor and outrage that typically dominates a conspiracy theorist's life. Sometimes, such claims are also made cynically, either for political or financial profit.
"An even more unfortunate corollary of this is that any attempts at alternative explanations or deviations from orthodoxy are easily smeared as "conspiracy theories", and an overwhelming sentiment thus obtains where tragedies such as mass shootings, bombings, or suicides are "sacred" or "forbidden", and any discussion, whether in good faith or not, is fundamentally disrespectful. This line of reasoning is much more often used cynically by political figures to stifle discussion which could potentially reveal their incompetence, malfeasance, or general scumminess. "
It's almost as if somebody has been reading this thread!
Yep, that's the Playa Manzanillo. I've got an old high school friend that's been living down there for about a dozen or so years now. Will be staying in one of the bungalows he rents out with another friend that traveling with me. My inbox here has been jacked since forever, so please send me an email at r2g2_53@hotmail.com
Cool. Never been to the Nicoya myself but quite often to the Caribbean Mazanillo. We had dinner there once when a SWAT team rolled through and later found out that a couple hundred meters away a drug boat from Colombia had beached with nearly 2 tons of cocaine on board with the carew making a run for it into the jungle...
Yeah, that's a good example on how conspiracy theories are being used to ridicule genuine and well founded concern over some truly evil and most and for all completely unnecessary shit. The highly subsidized farming industry in the US already not only fucks up all the small farmers there but makes it completely impossible for 3rd world countries to compete in the world market. For example cotton is one of the main crops in Benin in West Africa, cotton farmers in the US are so highly subsidized that they can throw their shit on the world market at such a low price that they're literally taking much needed money out of the pockets of one of the poorest countries on the planet.
For the most part, the genetical engineering is done so crops can be produced more efficiently, specifically in the climates of the Northern US and Europe. Easy to see what this will lead to.
Corn in the US has been modified to contain more and more sugar, I couldn't eat this shit if I wanted. Last time I tried I had to throw it out after the first mouthful, sickingly sweet and disgusting. You can keep your mutant corn cobs and put them where the sun don't shine.
So you are saying you are clinging to your personal beliefs that GMOs are good, despite the evidence?
Did you not read my earlier post?
I guess it just seems hard for me (a non-scientist) to disagree with these people:
http://oldpiano.org/?p=400
- The American Association For the Advancement of Science (or AAAS): ÔÇ£The science is quite clear: crop improvement by the modern molecular techniques of biotechnology is safe.ÔÇØ
- American Medical Association, the premier body of physicians in the US: ÔÇ£There is no scientific justification for special labeling of genetically modified foods. Bioengineered foods have been consumed for close to 20 years, and during that time, no over consequences on human health have been reported and/or substantiated in the peer-reviewed literature.ÔÇØ
- World Health Organization (or WHO) is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations system. They state: ÔÇ£No effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of GM foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved.ÔÇØ
- The National Academy of Sciences is a non-profit organization in the United States. It is the premier scientific body in the US. They state: ÔÇ£To date more than 98 million acres of genetically modified crops have been grown worldwide. No evidence of human health problems associated with the ingestion of these crops or resulting food products have been identified.ÔÇØ
- The Royal Society of Medicine is EnglandÔÇÖs top medical society and is an independent educational organization for doctors, dentists, scientists and others involved in medicine and health care. They state: ÔÇ£Foods derived from GM crops have been consumed by hundreds of millions of people across the world for more than 15 years, with no reported ill effects (or legal cases related to human health), despite many of the consumers coming from that most litigious of countries, the USA.ÔÇØ
- The European Commission (or EC) is the executive body of the European Union. They state: ÔÇ£The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that biotechnology, and in particular GMOs, are no more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies.ÔÇØ
- American Council on Science and Health: ÔÇØ[W]ith the continuing accumulation of evidence of safety and efficiency, and the complete absence of any evidence of harm to the public or the environment, more and more consumers are becoming as comfortable with agricultural biotechnology as they are with medical biotechnology.ÔÇØ
- American Dietetic Association: ÔÇØIt is the position of the American Dietetic Association that agricultural and food biotechnology techniques can enhance the quality, safety, nutritional value, and variety of food available for human consumption and increase the efficiency of food production, food processing, food distribution, and environmental and waste management.ÔÇØ
- American Phytopathological Society: ÔÇØThe American Phytopathological Society (APS), which represents approximately 5,000 scientists who work with plant pathogens, the diseases they cause, and ways of controlling them, supports biotechnology as a means for improving plant health, food safety, and sustainable growth in plant productivity.ÔÇØ
- American Society for Cell Biology: ÔÇØFar from presenting a threat to the public health, GM crops in many cases improve it. The ASCB vigorously supports research and development in the area of genetically engineered organisms, including the development of genetically modified (GM) crop plants.ÔÇØ
- American Society for Microbiology: ÔÇØThe ASM is not aware of any acceptable evidence that food produced with biotechnology and subject to FDA oversight constitutes high risk or is unsafe. We are sufficiently convinced to assure the public that plant varieties and products created with biotechnology have the potential of improved nutrition, better taste and longer shelf-life.ÔÇØ
- American Society of Plant Biologists: The risks of unintended consequences of this type of gene transfer are comparable to the random mixing of genes that occurs during classical breeding The ASPB believes strongly that, with continued responsible regulation and oversight, GE will bring many significant health and environmental benefits to the world and its people.
- International Seed Federation: The development of GM crops has benefited farmers, consumers and the environment Today, data shows that GM crops and foods are as safe as their conventional counterparts: millions of hectares worldwide have been cultivated with GM crops and billions of people have eaten GM foods without any documented harmful effect on human health or the environment.
- Council for Agricultural Science and Technology: ÔÇØOver the last decade, 8.5 million farmers have grown transgenic varieties of crops on more than 1 billion acres of farmland in 17 countries. These crops have been consumed by humans and animals in most countries. Transgenic crops on the market today are as safe to eat as their conventional counterparts, and likely more so given the greater regulatory scrutiny to which they are exposed.ÔÇØ
- Crop Science Society of America: ÔÇØThe Crop Science Society of America supports education and research in all aspects of crop production, including the judicious application of biotechnology.ÔÇØ
- International Society of African Scientists: ÔÇØAfrica and the Caribbean cannot afford to be left further behind in acquiring the uses and benefits of this new agricultural revolution.ÔÇØ
- Federation of Animal Science Societies: ÔÇØMeat, milk and eggs from livestock and poultry consuming biotech feeds are safe for human consumption.ÔÇØ
- Society for In Vitro Biology: ÔÇØThe SIVB supports the current science-based approach for the evaluation and regulation of genetically engineered crops. The SIVB supports the need for easy public access to available information on the safety of genetically modified crop products. In addition, the SIVB feels that foods from genetically modified crops, which are determined to be substantially equivalent to those made from crops, do not require mandatory labeling.ÔÇØ
- Consensus document on GMOs Safety (14 Italian scientific societies): ÔÇØGMOs on the market today, having successfully passed all the tests and procedures necessary to authorization, are to be considered, on the basis of current knowledge, safe to use for human and animal consumption.ÔÇØ
- Society of Toxicology: ÔÇØScientific analysis indicates that the process of GM food production is unlikely to lead to hazards of a different nature than those already familiar to toxicologists. The level of safety of current GM foods to consumers appears to be equivalent to that of traditional foods.ÔÇØ
- Transgenic Plants and World Agriculture ÔÇô Prepared by the Royal Society of London, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Indian National Science Academy, the Mexican Academy of Sciences, and the Third World Academy of Sciences:ÔÇ£Foods can be produced through the use of GM technology that are more nutritious, stable in storage, and in principle health promoting ÔÇô bringing benefits to consumers in both industrialized and developing nations.ÔÇØ
- French Academy of Science: ÔÇØAll criticisms against GMOs can be largely rejected on strictly scientific criteria.ÔÇØ
- Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities: ÔÇØFood derived from GM plants approved in the EU and the US poses no risks greater than those from the corresponding conventional food. On the contrary, in some cases food from GM plants appears to be superior with respect to health.ÔÇØ
- International Council for Science: ÔÇØCurrently available genetically modified crops ÔÇô and foods derived from them ÔÇô have been judged safe to eat, and the methods used to test them have been deemed appropriate.ÔÇØ
Of course they could all be shills for Monsanto.
But if you clarify what you mean by "good" then your question would be easier to answer. Safe to eat? Yes. Safe for bees? I don't know I guess I will look it up.