PONO?

SnappingSnapping 994 Posts
edited March 2014 in Strut Central
http://www.ponomusic.com/#home



What say you strut? Anyone gonna go get a Pono?

If I want a good quality audio experience I usually just listen to my records. I can accept inferior audio quality when I'm walking the dog....

Interesting to see some of the reactions: accusing Neil Young of audio elitism, and the Pono format as overhyped and unscientific

http://thequietus.com/articles/14724-neil-young-pono-player-review

http://gizmodo.com/what-is-high-resolution-audio-1252637824/1541582373/+marioaguilar
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  Comments


  • well, it comes off as a bunch of hokum in that commercial. reminded me of that late night infomercial for bose.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,793 Posts
    Not many thoughts on the player itself. But the kickstarter campaign is REALLY impressive.

  • BeatsoupBeatsoup 510 Posts
    With all those cats vouching for it I'm interested however the specs and explanation are vague. There's talk that they have researched new technology in the conversion and electronics playing the source back as well as possible. That's great and I would like to hear it but I don't think dismissing CDs is smart.
    A lot of material has been recorded at 44.1/16, I don't believe higher sample rates are the key, converters and clocks make the difference.

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    There have been many arguments, more importantly actual blind tests to try and answer the question of whether higher bitrate audio is realy worth the trouble.

    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/do_higher_mp3_bit_rates_pay_off?page=0,0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec_listening_test

    The conclusion seems to be that most people can't really tell the difference between low bitrate MP3s and 320 mp3s, let alone lossless formats. Even with VBR 320, if you look at how much of the audio the encoding process deems necessary to convert to 320, the amount will be minimal. So the majority of the sound you're hearing won't be at 320, but you won't ever be able the hear the difference.

    That said. If I listen to something over and over in Ableton then bounce it down to wav or apple lossless and convert that to mp3 to listen to on my iPod I can hear a difference, especially with certain sounds like big reverb become squished. I think the decision on quality needs to be made on a case by case basis, but the majority of music doesn't suffer audibly at a lower bitrate. I certainly won't be shelling out 400 bucks for some ugly triangular defvice that looks like the MP3 players from a decade and a half ago.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Okem said:
    That said. If I listen to something over and over in Ableton then bounce it down to wav or apple lossless and convert that to mp3 to listen to on my iPod I can hear a difference, especially with certain sounds like big reverb become squished. I think the decision on quality needs to be made on a case by case basis, but the majority of music doesn't suffer audibly at a lower bitrate. I certainly won't be shelling out 400 bucks for some ugly triangular defvice that looks like the MP3 players from a decade and a half ago.
    blind test that sht bruv

    this thing is lol

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    DOR said:
    Not many thoughts on the player itself. But the kickstarter campaign power of celebrity endorsement is REALLY impressive.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    Snapping said:
    http://www.ponomusic.com/#home



    What say you strut? Anyone gonna go get a Pono?

    If I want a good quality audio experience I usually just listen to my records. I can accept inferior audio quality when I'm walking the dog....

    Interesting to see some of the reactions: accusing Neil Young of audio elitism, and the Pono format as overhyped and unscientific

    http://thequietus.com/articles/14724-neil-young-pono-player-review

    http://gizmodo.com/what-is-high-resolution-audio-1252637824/1541582373/+marioaguilar

    The Quietus reviewer has some serious digital vs vinyl issues going on. Not so much a review as a geriatric cloud shouting demo.

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    I can't deal with The Quietus in general.

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts

    Bolo says No No to Pono. Yolo.

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    Not gonna catch on. Look at SACD.

    DUDES ARE MAKING BEATS FROM YOUTUBE AND IM GONNA BUY A 400 LOSSLESS PLAYER?!?

    Nah. Plus... What's the release/distribution method? Digital downloads obviously, but I mean you're gonna have to make sure the source material was converted and encoded properly. This added headache hardly seems worth it for labels/artists, especially factoring in the small audiophile market that this is aiming for.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    Okem said:
    I can't deal with The Quietus in general.

    I have to deal them quite a lot and it is a struggle.

  • asstroasstro 1,752 Posts
    I thought this thread was gonna be about dirty movies, I am disappoint...


  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    asstro said:
    I thought this thread was gonna be about dirty movies, I am disappoint...


    Serious. I can't look at that word and not hear a 3 year old or a dude with a speech impediment saying porno.

    And the web address: ponomusic.

  • dukeofdelridgedukeofdelridge urgent.monkey.mice 2,439 Posts
    People listen to these things on shitty headphones, myself included. Neil Young has been old my entire life, but appears double old with this. SHOARKTANQUE: PASS.

  • toby.dtoby.d 254 Posts
    Whoever persuaded Neil Young to endorse this shit is laughing. They'll make cash off old, rich people who didn't know they wanted their music to sound like this before they read about the Porno. iPods are perfect already. Also can't you just put lossless files on your iPod? I thought it was about file size and stuff not how triangular the device is.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    I don't care. Hate headphones will never use.

    But I heard NY on the radio a few months ago, Terry Gross, and he was talking about the music service he was involved in that would launch soon. Talking about how superior it was to everything available now and how it would change the music landscape. But when asked what this service/thing was it got real vague.

    Marketing will determine if this is successful. They are going up against Apple, so they better have their act together.
    The one advantage I can see them leveraging is brick and mortar audio stores. They could be the Riga turntable of mp3 players.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    toby.d said:
    Whoever persuaded Neil Young to endorse this shit is laughing. They'll make cash off old, rich people who didn't know they wanted their music to sound like this before they read about the Porno. iPods are perfect already. Also can't you just put lossless files on your iPod? I thought it was about file size and stuff not how triangular the device is.

    Neil Young isn't 'endorsing' this - the whole thing was his idea, he's been working on it for years.

    I actually know some of the people involved and cash is definitely not the motive.

    This is not really intended to compete with Apple or Ipods either, they are well aware of the differences in the market for both. Basically they are hoping this will be a viable way for people to have 'analog' quality without a physical media. Whether it accomplishes this or not I have no idea, but I am a little perplexed by the backlash, especially because it's coming from people who have never heard it or don't understand the science behind it - the Quietus article being a perfect example.

  • BeatsoupBeatsoup 510 Posts
    The PonoPlayer was designed with a ÔÇ£no compromisesÔÇØ approach to sound quality. We partnered with the engineering team at Ayre (www.ayre.com) to include some of their world-class audio technology in our PonoPlayer. The Ayre team describes their contribution to the PonoPlayer design as follows:

    ÔÇó The digital filter used in the PonoPlayer has minimal phase, and no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made (including music) always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural" and harsh.

    ÔÇó All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra-linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

    ÔÇó The DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter) chip being used is widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as one of the best sounding DAC chips available today.

    ÔÇó The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the PonoPlayer delivers perfectly flat frequency response and wide volume range using virtually any set of headphones

    If you guys missed it, this part does sound legit and possible to improve the sound. Ipod, phones, mp3 players ect generally arn't boasting or even mentioning these aspects.

  • toby.dtoby.d 254 Posts
    I can't see how a company selling a portable music player aren't (intended or otherwise) competing with Apple or motivated by making money. However, I don't know anyone involved, I haven't heard it and I only have a basic understanding of the science so I'm happy to put my knee jerk reaction on ice until at least one of those change. In a time when it's becoming more common to see people listening to music on the go via their phones than an MP3 player even, it just seems a strange move. I guess going in completely the opposite direction is the point though, we will see.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Who is the person that will plug into this instead of putting on a record? Who is going to think this is cool?

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    I think a lot of people confuse the allure of vinyl with the hunt for audio fidelity. Yes. Records cut from analog masters might sound better than the same release on a digital format. But the popularity of vinyl, in my experience, is more about the physicality of the medium. Records are big. The amount of music is finite. You have to actually interact with them instead if double clicking on a file name.

    Does anyone know a human being that would buy a $400 dedicated player and begin re-purchasing all their music on lossless pono-releases?

    Maybe I'm wrong, and there are more audiophiles out there than I think. But I just don't see anyone adopting this. That person would already have a whole listening room with vintage gear at home for their music collection. They are already experiencing high fidelity music, or they wouldn't care about Pono at all to begin with.

    Although... They probably also have $$$ to burn on new toys.

    Maybe the player just isn't sexy enough?

    I don't know... but I am willing to bet that this will not become ubiquitous or even popular.

  • johnblackjohnblack 147 Posts
    Even from a purely visual / aesthetic point of view it feels like they have already goofed a bit... that thing is not pretty.
    Maybe they really wanted to push the function over form aspect? There is a reason for the status quo with the form factor though, it works for portable devices.

    Sound-wise... no idea, but i'm sure there is a market with some disposable income ready to give it a try.
    I wonder how much you would need to spend on headphones to make it even remotely worth it?

  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    This will be a dud. Book it.

    It's ugly, it's expensive, and the marginal upgrade on fidelity won't be enough to sway the largely ambient-deaf critical mass.

    I'm stunned that there were enough people that deemed it a good idea worth investing in to bring it to market.

    b/w

    Where VYNLST at?

  • jaysusjaysus 787 Posts
    Is this really a tetrahedron digital player? If you were serious, a rack would at least lend you a semblance of respectability.

  • parallax said:
    Where VYNLST at?

    remember we kept asking that osandi character what his project was all about and he kept giving these really convoluted, buzz word laden, explanations? turns out they are merely selling extremely tacky, overpriced record tchotckes.

    http://www.vnylst.com/collectibles/

  • dukeofdelridgedukeofdelridge urgent.monkey.mice 2,439 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    Who is the person that will plug into this instead of putting on a record? Who is going to think this is cool?

    No shit. The 37 very old people who are into Neil Young I guess? Neil Young's friends? (Are those the same people?)

    It's most definitely competing with iPod, and is therefore dead in the water.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    why do people think this competes with the ipod

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    dukeofdelridge said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    Who is the person that will plug into this instead of putting on a record? Who is going to think this is cool?

    No shit. The 37 very old people who are into Neil Young I guess? Neil Young's friends? (Are those the same people?)

    It's most definitely competing with iPod, and is therefore dead in the water.

    It's competing with the ipod only in the same way that Lamborghini is in competition with Hyundai. It's also portable for those people who don't always carry an audiophile record deck with them.


  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    Okay, this is bizarre but the more I read about this thing the less resistance I actually feel.
    - I don't own an ipod or an MP3 device other than my phone so have no issues with starting again or transferring a library.
    - I really hate the tyranny of Apple's retail and DRM systems and I can't imagine this would be any worse
    - I like the idea of a really high quality player that will do justice to some of the vinyl rips I have
    - I'm not totally offended by goofy shape.
    - It only costs marginally more than an ipod classic ($330 vs $400) if you live in the UK
    - I'm enjoying watching Neil Young trying to disguise his usual chaotic, misanthropic self when he's promoting this piece of tat

    That said:
    - I am not paying $20-$40 for an album even if Neil Young personally delivers it to my house
    - I don't have any triangular pockets
    - I don't have ears, let alone headphones, that would do justice to the level of audio quality he's promising
    - I'd probably plug it into my amp. Right next to my deck. And then put a record on instead.

    But I'm not hating...
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