Bitcoin - Yay or Nay

phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
edited February 2014 in Strut Central
i think the idea of a virtual, independent currency untethered by any central authority or regulatory scheme is very compelling. But the collapse of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox and China's restrictions on the currency demonstrates that it is still very volatile. Anyone invest in bitcoin? Thoughts?

B/W - Value of single bitcoin is around $588 US$ today.

  Comments




  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    My bad. Did a search but the prior threads did not come up.

  • Pure lunatic bullshit.

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
    I am an IT geek by trade and I gassed at length last year about t3h bitcoinz with a couple of mates who were interested in "Mining" them. I am by no means an expert, but my understanding, in basic terms (which are the kind of terms I like) is:

    Each Bitcoin is backed by a complex unique ID which is hard to generate and requires a lot of CPU time. Typically, days.

    Mining = generating a new Bitcoin ID with a box full of processors. More processors = more coins generated.

    Obviously, leaving a box full of processors on 24/7 consumes power, so you have to offset the cost of power with how often you generate a valid ID.

    One mate has spunked 2K sterling on a Bitcoin mining rig and reckoned he'd get his money back after 6 months.

    But this was a while back in Bitcoin terms. The thing is, the ID depends on factoring in all the other IDs of Bitcoins already generated.

    So, you really need to be shifting a lot of bits to extract coins these days. Everyday it will get harder.

    If you liken this to a gold-rush, gone are the days of picking nuggets out of the stream, you need industrial, Channel-Tunnel-style plant to get deep into the mountain to get at those scraps. So the cost of entry to the goldrush is now very high, and not likely to get cheaper. Rocking up with a shovel is not an option.

    However, if you learned anything from studying the Klondike, or putting in hours on Miner 2049er, you'll know that the men who sold shovels did very well out of it. As I don't have access to Winkelvoss-levels of capital for industrial rigs (yes, those rowing twins from The Social Network are big into the Bitcoin game), then that is what I would be doing, if I had any faith in it.

    The thing is, as has been pointed out here, Bitcoins are a commodity that doesn't actually exist. They are only worth something because enough people say they are. They are like an "Emperor's New Clothes" currency.

    And so, there's nothing to stop someone coming up to the emperor with some different invisible clothes, and getting the emperor to agree that his current sartorial selections are now worthless, and he should be sporting better invisible threads.

    Can you say DOGECOINS? ...

  • ppadilhappadilha 2,097 Posts
    J i m s t e r said:
    The thing is, as has been pointed out here, Bitcoins are a commodity that doesn't actually exist.

    isn't that true for every currency?

    Money is a construct, dude. Like time.

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
    Our Sterlings are linked to gold deposits. So, if I have a tenner on me, it entitles me to a tenner's worth of the Bank of England's gold, that's held somewhere. If they've not sold already it for silly-low money, like the mugs they are. The note is a lot easier to carry around than gold though.

    I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods. I mean, like Jobim said, Brasil is not for beginners. So maybe your currency represents coffee shares, caipirinhas or butt-ogling time down Ipanema. I am a simple man; I could ride for that also.

    No wonder you got the World Cup and the Olympics.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    J i m s t e r said:
    I am an IT geek by trade and I gassed at length last year about t3h bitcoinz with a couple of mates who were interested in "Mining" them. I am by no means an expert, but my understanding, in basic terms (which are the kind of terms I like) is:

    Each Bitcoin is backed by a complex unique ID which is hard to generate and requires a lot of CPU time. Typically, days.

    Mining = generating a new Bitcoin ID with a box full of processors. More processors = more coins generated.

    Obviously, leaving a box full of processors on 24/7 consumes power, so you have to offset the cost of power with how often you generate a valid ID.

    One mate has spunked 2K sterling on a Bitcoin mining rig and reckoned he'd get his money back after 6 months.

    But this was a while back in Bitcoin terms. The thing is, the ID depends on factoring in all the other IDs of Bitcoins already generated.

    So, you really need to be shifting a lot of bits to extract coins these days. Everyday it will get harder.

    If you liken this to a gold-rush, gone are the days of picking nuggets out of the stream, you need industrial, Channel-Tunnel-style plant to get deep into the mountain to get at those scraps. So the cost of entry to the goldrush is now very high, and not likely to get cheaper. Rocking up with a shovel is not an option.

    However, if you learned anything from studying the Klondike, or putting in hours on Miner 2049er, you'll know that the men who sold shovels did very well out of it. As I don't have access to Winkelvoss-levels of capital for industrial rigs (yes, those rowing twins from The Social Network are big into the Bitcoin game), then that is what I would be doing, if I had any faith in it.

    The thing is, as has been pointed out here, Bitcoins are a commodity that doesn't actually exist. They are only worth something because enough people say they are. They are like an "Emperor's New Clothes" currency.

    And so, there's nothing to stop someone coming up to the emperor with some different invisible clothes, and getting the emperor to agree that his current sartorial selections are now worthless, and he should be sporting better invisible threads.

    Can you say DOGECOINS? ...

    Spot on run down in my opinion. It's too late in the game to get into mining, at this point, IMO.

    Dogecoins and Coinyes ftw....because they are hilarious.



    I love the nefarious shit people can do (supposedly anonymously) with bitcoin. Did yall hear about cryptolocker? It's a fantastic bit of malware that will encrypt a users data (all data on their computer and all discoverable drives connected to said computer at the time of infection). You want the key to decrypt yo' shit, son? Well pay up...in bitcoin. My favorite part of the story...the dude's behind cryptolocker hired a legit 3rd party customer service phone company to assist infected users in how to pay up anonymously...think about that. "Fuck I've been infected...how do I pay up? Oh, apparently the hackers have set up customer fucking support to assist me with paying"....and apparently the customer support on the other end was quite helpful...and had no idea who they were working for, of course.

    Back to the point...if anyone is just now wrapping their heads around bitcoin...stay away from it...you'll get buried.

    EDIT: This just came to me via a newsfeed that I check on occasionally... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/business/apparent-theft-at-mt-gox-shakes-bitcoin-world.html?hp&_r=0 when the reliability/legitimacy/existence of a currency's most prominent/reliable exchange is called into question...it might be time to enact your 'escape with your pants on' plan.

  • ppadilhappadilha 2,097 Posts
    J i m s t e r said:
    Our Sterlings are linked to gold deposits. So, if I have a tenner on me, it entitles me to a tenner's worth of the Bank of England's gold, that's held somewhere. If they've not sold already it for silly-low money, like the mugs they are. The note is a lot easier to carry around than gold though.

    I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods. I mean, like Jobim said, Brasil is not for beginners. So maybe your currency represents coffee shares, caipirinhas or butt-ogling time down Ipanema. I am a simple man; I could ride for that also.

    No wonder you got the World Cup and the Olympics.

    I thought they made away with the gold thing back in the 50s. Isn't that what allows the US Fed to print money like crazy and call it Quantitative Easing? Brazil used to do that in the 80s, except they would change the name of the currency and slash three 0's off the value, so when an apple cost 5,000 Cruzados they would change the currency to Cruzado Novo and the apple would cost 5 of those. Maybe it's a bit more complicated than that, but it certainly left the feeling that money is fake, and having the current currency named Real doesn't help matters.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    you really posting on this shit and don't even know if your currency is really linked to gold?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,388 Posts
    All these sites have been 'hacked' and have lost everyone's bitcoins and there's no legal comeback . It's a currency tailor-made for embezzlers. There's a whole new swathe of Bitcoin scammers out there fighting over Sunseekers and Caribbean real estate...

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
    Money is a construct, dude. Like time.

    Down in Brazil
    It takes a day to walk a mile
    Time just stands still
    - Franks

    Time won't give me time
    And time makes lovers feel
    Like they've got something real
    But you and me
    We know we've got
    Nothin' but time
    - George

    Wow. See, now I'm conflicted. Brasil is defo not for beginners. But I am prepared to walk that mile with a cafe-au-lait girl in high-heeled shoes. It sounds a profound gas.

    Just to be clear, she's wearing the shoes.

    I'll have them flip-flops on.

    I already have the girl and the flip-flops.

  • jjfad027jjfad027 1,594 Posts
    J i m s t e r said:
    Money is a construct, dude. Like time.

    Down in Brazil
    It takes a day to walk a mile
    Time just stands still
    - Franks

    Time won't give me time
    And time makes lovers feel
    Like they've got something real
    But you and me
    We know we've got
    Nothin' but time
    - George

    Wow. See, now I'm conflicted. Brasil is defo not for beginners. But I am prepared to walk that mile with a cafe-au-lait girl in high-heeled shoes. It sounds a profound gas.

    Just to be clear, she's wearing the shoes.

    I'll have them flip-flops on.

    I already have the girl and the flip-flops.

    :lol:


  • just to be clear, this "new form of currency" vehemently opposed any regulation by government, and now seeks bankruptcy protection within it?

    LOL

    this just keeps getting better.

    idiots.

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    vintageinfants said:
    just to be clear, this "new form of currency" vehemently opposed any regulation by government, and now seeks bankruptcy protection within it?

    LOL

    this just keeps getting better.

    idiots.

    Yes, the irony is delicious. But that is what happens when you entrust your "money" to a young Chris Farley.

    http://valleywag.gawker.com/bitcoin-kingpin-admits-everyones-money-is-gone-1533315083

    Seriously though, how the f*ck does $350M in virtual currency disappear?

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Seriously though, how the f8ck are people surprised that $350m in virtual currency has disappeared?
    Is it the 'virtual' part or the 'currency' part that had people convinced it was a good investment?

  • jjfad027jjfad027 1,594 Posts
    Anarchists love anarchy until their house gets robbed

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
    Meanwhile...

    http://descrier.co.uk/world/2014/03/singapore-police-investigate-apparent-suicide-bitcoin-exchange-ceo-autumn-radtke/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=singapore-police-investigate-apparent-suicide-bitcoin-exchange-ceo-autumn-radtke

    Police in Singapore are investigating the "unnatural" death of Autumn Radtke, the CEO of virtual currency trading firm First Meta Pte Ltd.

    Radtke, 28, was found dead in her home in the city last week in an apparent suicide. Officials are hoping that toxicology reports will help determine her exact cause of death.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    What do yall think? Is this thee dude?



    http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html

    Interesting read. Not sure if it's him or if it matters at this point.

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
    BUMP.

    We should have bought.

  • I mean, I guess, to get rich, but I'm happy to not be involved. It's kind of a symbol of the shortsightedness of humanity. We've doomed our grandchildren to kill each other like rats crawling up out of a sinking ship for what - our own inability to connect a "speculative asset" with its real-world consequences. Bitcoin is not the only example but is perhaps the most obvious. Somebody analogized it well as "solved sudokus you generate by leaving your car running in your driveway". It's just a earth-suicide-accelerator now. If anyone's left to judge in the end, the consequences of this kind of thing will be on a level with "I invested in Nazi industry" or something so I don't lose sleep over the lost $$$.

  • That sounds way doomer... I don't view the future as totally set in stone to be that terrible! Just think bitcoin and the like most resemble harbingers of that kind of future.

  • foefoe turo de la peira 189 Posts
    everyone that tries to make me buy bitcoin gives off MLM vibes. trying to do some pump and dump. 

  • JimsterJimster Let go me ting, duppy, let go me hand 6,538 Posts
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