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Freestyle Fellowship diss at unkut.com = strutnip?

SnappingSnapping 995 Posts
edited August 2013 in Strut Central
http://www.unkut.com/2013/08/that-shit-i-dont-like-freestyle-fellowship-innercity-griots/#comments

Robbie at unkut.com makes a bunch of blanket statements about disliking "coffee shop art rap", and the Innercity Griots album specifically, and his comments section goes bananas. His statements are pretty much consistent with his "conservative rap coalition" views. But honestly I am finding myself sympathetic with some of the commentors.
There are a lot of layers of cultural understanding and misunderstanding revealed here. For a white dude from Australia to pass judgement on what is and is not real hip-hop is a little laughable. But Freestyle Fellowship were trying to do something different. Authenticity was not their goal. And ultimately it should not be an artist's goal. I like the interviews on unkut.com, but I think think he showed his ass a little on this one. As one commentor said "vanilla is great ice-cream but at least respect the other flavors"
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  Comments

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    I have no idea who that guy is, but I'd never trust the opinion of someone who speaks in such extremes, positive or negative.

    It's not your thing? Move on. The Australian Crusades for Real Rap and shit.
  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    Gtfo with the Australian angle. Firstly alot of cats on here are white middle class and still pass judgement on black music everyday so how is that different? And i recall alot of dudes giving unkut props over the years. You dont agree with Robbie cool but being Australian has no relevance here. 90% of you fall in the same bracket as him.
  • disco_chedisco_che 1,115 Posts
    So you're saying somewhere in the internets people are having beef over a rap album that came out 20 years ago?

    I'm superexcited to find out more about it. (Cancelling all plans for today.)
  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    LokoOne said:
    Gtfo with the Australian angle. Firstly alot of cats on here are white middle class and still pass judgement on black music everyday so how is that different? And i recall alot of dudes giving unkut props over the years. You dont agree with Robbie cool but being Australian has no relevance here. 90% of you fall in the same bracket as him.
    nah im pretty sure being Australian (or being a non-American actually) diminishes one of having any sort of rapp credibility
  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    Snapping said:
    For a white dude from Australia to pass judgement on what is and is not real hip-hop is a little laughable.

    A point fractiously debated at considerable length in this latter-day classique.

    Personally, if Unkut dude believes OF to be the logical conclusion of what Sage Francis was doing, then it's no wonder he struggles with getting his head around what FF were aiming at. His rant just reads like a less well-articulated version of some of the shit that used to pop off on here about seven years ago. Full of the same sort of wanky ad-hominems as well - are we quite sure dude doesn't/didn't post here?

    Also, people always try to make these things about "white middle class" dudes "passing judgment" on black music. Well, I wonder did it ever occur to anyone that the objection might have more to do with Americans (sometimes African-Americans) taking issue with non-Americans who try to claim a more nuanced understanding of an African-American artform, simply because of their adherence to a very rigid, fundamentalist aesthetic that only really developed in the first place as a reaction to the Bad Boy era, when Fifth Avenue rap swept all before it and some people got really upset about other people not having the "correct" response to music. In the absence of too much first-hand experience, many of these guys have since fooled themselves into believing that this is how it was all the time back in the day, to the point that they've turned a simple matter of personal preference into a manifesto.

    It's possible, of course, that the guy isn't being entirely serious. However, I've found that having a sense of humour and a relaxed attitude about this shit often comes a long, long way behind "representing that real hip-hop" for a certain strain of rap blogger.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Ivory: It???s a shame with a lot of people not from New York, because they have good ideas, some of the production???s alright, but???.they just can???t rap! I mean Outkast ??? everything about them???s so right, they???re so individual and they couldn???t give a fuck. I really like everything about Outkast, but they can???t rap! They just can???t put it down like New Yorkers. It???s such a shame, ???cause that???s how hip-hop should be???kinda weird, dress how you want???they???re really spiritual and standing alone. When everyone was really up on Outkast with the early stuff I was like ???No, no, no???, but lately, I???ve thought to myself ???Yeah, they???re everything hip-hop should be ??? apart from the sound???. The beats are alright, the singings alright, but if they sounded like Tragedy ???

    Robbie: That???d be some hot shit.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    The Good Life Cafe was "harder than all y'all n*ggas"...

  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
    who's 'Robbie?'

    what's 'unkut.com?'
  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
    DocMcCoy said:
    Snapping said:
    For a white dude from Australia to pass judgement on what is and is not real hip-hop is a little laughable.

    A point fractiously debated at considerable length in this latter-day classique.

    .

    Oh man that was a doozy.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Wack
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    rootlesscosmo said:
    who's 'Robbie?'

    what's 'unkut.com?'

    Robbie is the cat who does the unkut interviews, many of which are really dope. He's dead wrong on this one, but dude puts in work. I enjoy his shit.
  • caicai spacecho 362 Posts
    That Volume 10 album should have been in the SS100!
  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    who's 'Robbie?'

    what's 'unkut.com?'

    Robbie is the cat who does the unkut interviews, many of which are really dope. He's dead wrong on this one, but dude puts in work. I enjoy his shit.

    it's not so much that he's wrong about Innercity Griots being good (obviously he's glaringly, laughably wrong about that), it's that his "critique" is just crap.

    He strikes me as someone who never really listened to the album (indeed, he nearly admits as much in this little piece of his). Which makes it doubly wack that he'd write a post about it.

    On an unrelated note, I'm thrilled that he's been able to secure interviews with some really interesting hip hop people over the years, and managed to ask them halfway decent questions.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    yeah, I agree. I just didn't want to tarnish the other stuff he does which I find legitimately awesome.
  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    If he agrees that Outkast can't rap then fuck him and anything he's ever touched.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    That was DJ Ivory of the P Bros that said that, I'm not gonna put words in Robbie's mouth.


    But I mean, it's not like I never heard that sentiment when I moved to NY.


    That shit is not his lane, nor should it be. Which is why the FF piece is weak, he's out of his depth.
  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    Dude can't find the level of difficulty in theeeeisss.
  • drbrownscelraydrbrownscelray 648 Posts
    The interviews on Unkut are some of the best knowledge that the internets contain on rap music (read the Silver Fox interview for just one truly outstanding example), but every time dude bigs up some modern day music or discusses current rap in any context it's cringeworthy. b/w why are you australians so perpetually butt-hurt about your place in the rap-fan pantheon? This is like a nonstop issue around these parts.
  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    Explain to me how Robbie being aussie makes his opinion more or less valid? And also im also from australia (via argentina) and i actually am a big FF fan and like most of the artist that robbie disses, as do heaps of ppl down under, matter of fact Hot Potato was a minor hit here when it dropped. So how does that fit into your analysis?
  • SnappingSnapping 995 Posts
    It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
    It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.
  • caicai spacecho 362 Posts
    I don't want to feed into this re-run but I have to say I find it strange when strutters from outside America post in support of this boring "people not from the US who comment on hip hop have invalid opinions" argument. Isn't that what you have done for years on this board?
  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    Snapping said:
    It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
    It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.

    So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?

    for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).

    but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
  • AndreBretonAndreBreton 344 Posts
    So even though I enjoyed and participated in the 90's West Coast Hip-Hop scene, someone who wasn't here knows no less than me about the cultural relevance and nuances?

    Good to know.
  • pimlicosquirrelpimlicosquirrel 772 Posts
  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    LokoOne said:
    Snapping said:
    It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
    It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.

    So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?

    for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).

    but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
    I think its because you didn't learn anything from that beast of a thread doc linked earlier
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    LokoOne said:
    "coffee house rap"

  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    AndreBreton said:
    So even though I enjoyed and participated in the 90's West Coast Hip-Hop scene, someone who wasn't here knows no less than me about the cultural relevance and nuances?

    Good to know.

    Then share your insights but am I to assume every dude here (or every us hip hop fan) did the same?

    no one is arguing lots of cats here would have been closer and more involved in certain elementsscenes but to have to accept every us dudes word on rap as gospel is bullshit,

    and my point is a simple one (clown all you want btw) arguing that robbies opinion is wackinvalidwrong JUST cus hes aussie is weak. Why not just state your view n thoughts and show his wrong?
  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    LokoOne said:
    Snapping said:
    It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
    It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.

    So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?

    for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).

    but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
    I think its because you didn't learn anything from that beast of a thread doc linked earlier

    oohh no internet bullies i should run in fear. ;) seems likea few seppos got their raw nerves touched more like it
  • LokoOneLokoOne 1,823 Posts
    batmon said:
    LokoOne said:
    "coffee house rap"


    I think that quote belongs to your compatriot champ ;)

    And you dont dig the digables? I would have thought theyd be your cup of tea... Oops i mean coffee
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    LokoOne said:
    batmon said:
    LokoOne said:
    "coffee house rap"


    I think that quote belongs to your compatriot champ ;)

    And you dont dig the digables? I would have thought theyd be your cup of tea... Oops i mean coffee

    Why would u think they would be my cup of coffee?
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