How about you saying fuck you to the Catholic Church for raping thousands of kids and covering it up?
The boy scouts just had a child molestation scandal as well and don't forget the Penn State football coach case. I don't think raping kids and covering it up is a problem of religion. Yes the Catholic Church was fucked up, but am I willing to condemn religion because of it? No.
You can't go on and on about all the good they do without at least acknowledging the bad and considering whether the trade-off is worth it.
The Boy Scout and Penn State scandals really don't compare to the Church since the Church has been involved in a wide variety of other genuinely sick activities over the centuries as well. And continues to do so every day.
At the very least we should start taxing the bastards.
The problem with this thread is that almost every single argument made against religion actually has very little to do with religion. The main argument is that if a person or society does something bad and they believe in religion then religion is the culprit. Hence you get dumb ass arguments like Christianity caused the genocide of the Indians because the Spanish were Catholics and they brought germs, which were obviously special Christian germs. This morning I was listening to this woman being interviewed. Her father was a Marxist lawyer who defended Black Panthers and went to protests in the 1960s but beat the shit out of his wife. Does that mean Marxism leads to domestic abuse? No, but if he was a Christian people in this thread would probably say yes. Conversely the other major argument is that if religion supported something bad like the colonization of the Americas than religion is the thing that's really bad rather than the monarchies that funded the conquest, administered the colonies, and got most of the money.
If people brought up actual examples of religious persecution or religious wars they would do a lot better. Shit has no one heard of almost a 100 years of religious wars in Europe between Catholics and Protestants? The Spanish and Portuguese Missions in the New World treated the Indians pretty brutally by making them serfs/semi-slaves. Sudan anyone? Instead this thread is full of tons of crap arguments, and when they get pushed on the facts it's yeah, well there were other factors but religion still sucks!
Again, I'll repeat my main point. Religion is but one of many identities that exist in the world that can bring people together or divide them. It's like fire it can warm you up or burn your house down. That doesn't mean people shouldn't use fire or condemn it.
The problem with this thread is that almost every single argument made against religion actually has very little to do with religion. The main argument is that if a person or society does something bad and they believe in religion then religion is the culprit. Hence you get dumb ass arguments like Christianity caused the genocide of the Indians because the Spanish were Catholics and they brought germs, which were obviously special Christian germs.
oh look, I found the first reply I made to your question:
ppadilha said:
motown67 said:
And was the conquering of the Americas driven by religion or greed and the desire for empire?
you think religion and greed are mutually exclusive? Wasn't their religion used to justify their greed and desire for empire? And didn't the Catholic Church benefit immensely from this greed and desire for empire?
You chose to ignore it and go on a dumb ass rant, disregarding what anyone else has been saying. I guess I could pull the Bon Vivant and ask why you never answered my question.
motown67 said:
the church's justifications for the conquest of the Americas and also the debate about how to treat the Indians there happened largely AFTER the Americas were already taken over.
motown67 said:
The Spanish and Portuguese Missions in the New World treated the Indians pretty brutally by making them serfs/semi-slaves.
Unknowingly you've just come around to my point and agreed with me. Good job!
ppadilha, any institutionalized power structure can be used to justify any sort of atrocity. This is not exclusive to religion.
I said before in this thread that my beef is with organized religion, not religion in general. I think there's a special kind of hypocrisy at play when you claim to be saving someone's soul while in reality you're fucking them over. That kind of thing is exclusive to religious institutions.
ppadilha, any institutionalized power structure can be used to justify any sort of atrocity. This is not exclusive to religion.
I said before in this thread that my beef is with organized religion, not religion in general. I think there's a special kind of hypocrisy at play when you claim to be saving someone's soul while in reality you're fucking them over. That kind of thing is exclusive to religious institutions.
Government around the world does the exact same thing.
Comments
Fixed.
Glad that's all been taken care of.
Do your parents know you're such a yutz?
The problem with this thread is that almost every single argument made against religion actually has very little to do with religion. The main argument is that if a person or society does something bad and they believe in religion then religion is the culprit. Hence you get dumb ass arguments like Christianity caused the genocide of the Indians because the Spanish were Catholics and they brought germs, which were obviously special Christian germs. This morning I was listening to this woman being interviewed. Her father was a Marxist lawyer who defended Black Panthers and went to protests in the 1960s but beat the shit out of his wife. Does that mean Marxism leads to domestic abuse? No, but if he was a Christian people in this thread would probably say yes. Conversely the other major argument is that if religion supported something bad like the colonization of the Americas than religion is the thing that's really bad rather than the monarchies that funded the conquest, administered the colonies, and got most of the money.
If people brought up actual examples of religious persecution or religious wars they would do a lot better. Shit has no one heard of almost a 100 years of religious wars in Europe between Catholics and Protestants? The Spanish and Portuguese Missions in the New World treated the Indians pretty brutally by making them serfs/semi-slaves. Sudan anyone? Instead this thread is full of tons of crap arguments, and when they get pushed on the facts it's yeah, well there were other factors but religion still sucks!
Again, I'll repeat my main point. Religion is but one of many identities that exist in the world that can bring people together or divide them. It's like fire it can warm you up or burn your house down. That doesn't mean people shouldn't use fire or condemn it.
oh look, I found the first reply I made to your question:
You chose to ignore it and go on a dumb ass rant, disregarding what anyone else has been saying. I guess I could pull the Bon Vivant and ask why you never answered my question.
Unknowingly you've just come around to my point and agreed with me. Good job!
I said before in this thread that my beef is with organized religion, not religion in general. I think there's a special kind of hypocrisy at play when you claim to be saving someone's soul while in reality you're fucking them over. That kind of thing is exclusive to religious institutions.
Me Too.
Guess who destroyed those two cultures. Christianity.
Just plain wrong.