@Batmon: you don't see "My Love is Your Love" (complete with Wyclef, aka "the executive producer all in the video") as a blatant attempt to cash in on Lauryn Hill's popularity in the semi-skreets?
What do y'all think of the media's suggestion that Whitney's downfall and eventual passing were due to the one Bobby Brown? It's my understanding that the pre-Bobby Brown Whitney was not the delicate and innocent, bougie black princess that she's portrayed as being; rather, she did in fact have "skreet" sensibilities and was known to party. Indeed, lest we forget, she was from East Orange, New Jersey. Not saying that Bobby Brown wasn't a negative influence on her life; just suggesting that the influence may be exaggerated.
What do y'all think of the media's suggestion that Whitney's downfall and eventual passing were due to the one Bobby Brown? It's my understanding that the pre-Bobby Brown Whitney was not the delicate and innocent, bougie black princess that she's portrayed as being; rather, she did in fact have "skreet" sensibilities and was known to party. Indeed, lest we forget, she was from East Orange, New Jersey. Not saying that Bobby Brown wasn't a negative influence on her life; just suggesting that the influence may be exaggerated.
Everyone knows she was dirty before Bobby.
I met her girlfriend whom she dealt with before Bobby.
Bu id rather talk about her music vs the tabloid shit.
Whitney was also just a little bit too old to really feel the streets IMO. When Def Jam and "new school" of hip-hop started to really make noise in say 84-85 she was 22, her career had already started and she was totally ensconced in that pop world that was bringing her success.
You can tell that she probably had no idea what was going on "in the skreets". People her age were dismissive of people like me who were 5 or 7 years younger and hip-hop seemed like something they needed to keep at a distance, especially females. Eddie Murphy is another one who is about that age, who never really seemed comfortable embracing hip-hop. By the time rap blew up in the mid 80's he was a superstar and out of touch with that world, that's why he was making records with Rick James instead of Rick Rubin.
Anyway, I think she missed out on hip-hop, and the people who were pitching her songs wouldn't have known about it either. All the other diva types people are mentioning are just a little younger (Janet, Mariah) or were already in the clubs and would have been hearing hip-hop as it was happening (Madonna, Jody Watley, etc). By the 90's she had two choices, look like she was jumping the bandwagon and ask for a Puffy remix, or go the Sade/Anita Baker route and appeal to the older crowd. She did the strange thing and kind of sort of tried to do both, and doing things halfway gets you nowhere. Especially when you are also a crackhead.
So how did Chaka Khan do a song with Melle Mel before Whitney dropped.
I dont see how Davis fails to see the new market and them lets Alicia Keys make a debut video singing about a thugged boyfriend.
Something dont smell right.
Well, here's how it smells to me:
Chaka and Alicia had a bit more "edge" than Whitney. Neither one of them fit molds. They had their own idiosyncratic personalities. That's why they could pull off hanging with the hip-hoppers with a lot more credibility.
Whitney Houston, on the other hand, was just a preppy hitmaker who followed trends. She didn't establish them, like Chaka or Alicia.
If black folks started embracing polka records, then you'd start hearing Whitney with an accordion in the background, regardless of whether it sounded right or not. Of course, judging from Batmon's breakdown, she'd probably jump on the trend a little late in the day, but still...
She didnt create a trend but she did create a new mold for the generations after her.
Dionne Warrick had the bourgie pop thang and Diana had diva status for a long minute, but Whitney raised that bar even higher.
You now can keep the Whitney demographic and still have Mary's crowd ala Alica and Beyonce.
The chameleon game is way more fluid.
Diamanda Gal??s' Statement on Whitney Houston's Death
by Diamanda Gal??s on Monday, 13 February 2012 at 16:16 ??
I mourn the death of Whitney Houston, whom I adored. Her incomparable voice, which influenced almost every R&B and pop singer worldwide, her stage presence, which no one can touch, and her beauty, tough and sweet, moved me. Whitney ... Whitney ... was put back onstage before she was ready to perform - by the colossal pig Clive Davis - who continued his party in the same hotel where she died and where her body still lay. Heresy.
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
What was she put onstage as? A lesson that "drugs kill"? "Hey wanna see a crack ho sing?" Courtesy of Clive Davis.
"Wow, man, that will be some freaky shit, right?" "You bet, man."
Great. Now Mr. Davis will be able to package her death in frills and sell it big time - even during the nadir of record sales. (Sony and iTunes have already begun selling the back catalogue at exceedingly high prices, hours after her death, possibly minutes). And Clive and Sony will say, "Even though we do not hope to even break even with this uncompromising tribute to Whitney Houston, we feel, personally, that it is her due, as the foremost singer ever on our labels, and as lovely girl she always was to us." Etc, etc, puke puke puke.
Mr. Davis thought nothing of keeping her up onstage while she received humiliating reviews and she represented DOPEFIEND LOSER of THE WAR ON DRUGS. He probably said, "Ignore those jealous fools, dear; the more you sing, the more you'll begin to really sing." Pure entertainment for the folks that know better.
And the press will make more correlations between death days and birthdays and dead dopefiend performers and pour more gasoline on her body. Another party where she was close by but unreachable.
I feel deep sorrow for Whitney. I feel no sorrow for anyone else other than her family and those who still loved her.
And a deep loathing for those who ran her into the ground. Sure, one was Bobby Brown, but he is a common idiot.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
The_Hook_Up said:
Diamanda Gal??s' Statement on Whitney Houston's Death
by Diamanda Gal??s on Monday, 13 February 2012 at 16:16 ??
I mourn the death of Whitney Houston, whom I adored. Her incomparable voice, which influenced almost every R&B and pop singer worldwide, her stage presence, which no one can touch, and her beauty, tough and sweet, moved me. Whitney ... Whitney ... was put back onstage before she was ready to perform - by the colossal pig Clive Davis - who continued his party in the same hotel where she died and where her body still lay. Heresy.
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
What was she put onstage as? A lesson that "drugs kill"? "Hey wanna see a crack ho sing?" Courtesy of Clive Davis.
"Wow, man, that will be some freaky shit, right?" "You bet, man."
Great. Now Mr. Davis will be able to package her death in frills and sell it big time - even during the nadir of record sales. (Sony and iTunes have already begun selling the back catalogue at exceedingly high prices, hours after her death, possibly minutes). And Clive and Sony will say, "Even though we do not hope to even break even with this uncompromising tribute to Whitney Houston, we feel, personally, that it is her due, as the foremost singer ever on our labels, and as lovely girl she always was to us." Etc, etc, puke puke puke.
Mr. Davis thought nothing of keeping her up onstage while she received humiliating reviews and she represented DOPEFIEND LOSER of THE WAR ON DRUGS. He probably said, "Ignore those jealous fools, dear; the more you sing, the more you'll begin to really sing." Pure entertainment for the folks that know better.
And the press will make more correlations between death days and birthdays and dead dopefiend performers and pour more gasoline on her body. Another party where she was close by but unreachable.
I feel deep sorrow for Whitney. I feel no sorrow for anyone else other than her family and those who still loved her.
And a deep loathing for those who ran her into the ground. Sure, one was Bobby Brown, but he is a common idiot.
The bigger picture?
Think a minute.
DIAMANDA GAL??S
Wow. Diamanda in vintage "kill 'em all" mode. Who saw that coming?
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
Whitney was performing before Davis first met her while performing.
She was already on that Material album doing backup and had a showbiz family.
She was an Industry Brat before Davis and Brown got to her.
Painting her as this innocent princess w/ raw talent is bullshit.
chaka khan also got into some clive davis bashing:
not to defend clive davis, but i remember reading last month that he was supporting her thorugh her imminent bankruptcy (probably in hopes she would pay off later but maybe becasue he wanted to stick by her thick and thin or simply enable her lifestyle) http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/whitney-houston-facing-bankruptcy
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
batmon said:
The_Hook_Up said:
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
Whitney was performing before Davis first met her while performing.
She was already on that Material album doing backup and had a showbiz family.
She was an Industry Brat before Davis and Brown got to her.
Painting her as this innocent princess w/ raw talent is bullshit.
I think she's talking about her return to live performance here. In the preceding sentence, she says, "...put back onstage before she was ready to perform", and there's definitely some truth in that.
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
Whitney was performing before Davis first met her while performing.
She was already on that Material album doing backup and had a showbiz family.
She was an Industry Brat before Davis and Brown got to her.
Painting her as this innocent princess w/ raw talent is bullshit.
I think she's talking about her return to live performance here. In the preceding sentence, she says, "...put back onstage before she was ready to perform", and there's definitely some truth in that.
yes, also the closing sentence of that passage "a life without discipline, the leisure life"=hanging out and getting reallly really high for a decade or more...means she was talking about her return to the stage now.
Comments
it was was too late attempt.
Everyone knows she was dirty before Bobby.
I met her girlfriend whom she dealt with before Bobby.
Bu id rather talk about her music vs the tabloid shit.
thats what this was. her trying to find a comfortable middleground without having to sing over chic loops.
I actually remember "All At Once" being the talent search anthem at the time.
She didnt create a trend but she did create a new mold for the generations after her.
Dionne Warrick had the bourgie pop thang and Diana had diva status for a long minute, but Whitney raised that bar even higher.
You now can keep the Whitney demographic and still have Mary's crowd ala Alica and Beyonce.
The chameleon game is way more fluid.
by Diamanda Gal??s on Monday, 13 February 2012 at 16:16 ??
I mourn the death of Whitney Houston, whom I adored. Her incomparable voice, which influenced almost every R&B and pop singer worldwide, her stage presence, which no one can touch, and her beauty, tough and sweet, moved me. Whitney ... Whitney ... was put back onstage before she was ready to perform - by the colossal pig Clive Davis - who continued his party in the same hotel where she died and where her body still lay. Heresy.
Whitney should have been allowed to study for a minimum of two years with a voice therapist/teacher before even rehearsing, let alone performing, onstage. It is a gigantic jump to go from not performing to performing - and a much larger one to go from not performing and living a life without discipline, the leisure life, in particular, to performing.
What was she put onstage as? A lesson that "drugs kill"? "Hey wanna see a crack ho sing?" Courtesy of Clive Davis.
"Wow, man, that will be some freaky shit, right?" "You bet, man."
Great. Now Mr. Davis will be able to package her death in frills and sell it big time - even during the nadir of record sales. (Sony and iTunes have already begun selling the back catalogue at exceedingly high prices, hours after her death, possibly minutes). And Clive and Sony will say, "Even though we do not hope to even break even with this uncompromising tribute to Whitney Houston, we feel, personally, that it is her due, as the foremost singer ever on our labels, and as lovely girl she always was to us." Etc, etc, puke puke puke.
Mr. Davis thought nothing of keeping her up onstage while she received humiliating reviews and she represented DOPEFIEND LOSER of THE WAR ON DRUGS. He probably said, "Ignore those jealous fools, dear; the more you sing, the more you'll begin to really sing." Pure entertainment for the folks that know better.
And the press will make more correlations between death days and birthdays and dead dopefiend performers and pour more gasoline on her body. Another party where she was close by but unreachable.
I feel deep sorrow for Whitney. I feel no sorrow for anyone else other than her family and those who still loved her.
And a deep loathing for those who ran her into the ground. Sure, one was Bobby Brown, but he is a common idiot.
The bigger picture?
Think a minute.
DIAMANDA GAL??S
Sony have apologised for the "mistakenly mispriced" recording on Itunes. BS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17039076
Wow. Diamanda in vintage "kill 'em all" mode. Who saw that coming?
Whitney was performing before Davis first met her while performing.
She was already on that Material album doing backup and had a showbiz family.
She was an Industry Brat before Davis and Brown got to her.
Painting her as this innocent princess w/ raw talent is bullshit.
not to defend clive davis, but i remember reading last month that he was supporting her thorugh her imminent bankruptcy (probably in hopes she would pay off later but maybe becasue he wanted to stick by her thick and thin or simply enable her lifestyle)
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/whitney-houston-facing-bankruptcy
I think she's talking about her return to live performance here. In the preceding sentence, she says, "...put back onstage before she was ready to perform", and there's definitely some truth in that.
yes, also the closing sentence of that passage "a life without discipline, the leisure life"=hanging out and getting reallly really high for a decade or more...means she was talking about her return to the stage now.
Chaka's looking good.
true. she needs to step her wig game up tho.