Digging/collecting standards
spirit_of_66
104 Posts
I'm still pretty new around here and I've been catching up on lots of old thread discussions (this place is an incredible resource) but I haven't really found a thread specifically about people's collecting standards, i.e. your personal rules/guidelines for condition, what you'll pay & under what circumstances. I see frequent mention of the mythical (?) digger who won't pay more than $1 for any record--are there really collectors out there that are so strict? Anyway I'm just curious, and if a past thread about this already exists maybe someone could point me in that direction.
To me the level of organization & care a seller puts into their stock is proportional to the price they can fairly ask. I'm fairly certain everybody agrees with this notion. Usually people aren't gonna pay boutique prices at the flea market, even if there's a decent level of organization going on.
Regarding flea markets--I'm looking to spend $1 per 45 or if I'm lucky, less. It seems like that's pretty standard fare. I'll up the ante if someone's got particularly good/clean stuff, with company sleeves, etc... But I've rarely ever dropped more than $2 on a flea market 45. LPs are tougher as they don't seem to be governed by the unwritten "buck a pop" rule--people's prices seem to be all over the map. Which is a big part of why I usually focus on the 45s--sellers usually dump them in an unorganized box on the ground while giving undue attention to organizing and hawking their crate of Streisand, Mantovani, and Kingston Trio LPs. It also seems to me--and maybe this is just at my local market--that there's less competition from other record hounds over the 45s and again, undue attention given to the LPs.
My biggest weakness at the flea market--though I'm getting better--is that I end up buying 45s in less than ideal condition just because they're on my want list or I know they're rare. But with flea market stuff in general I find I'm almost always settling for 45s in the VG/VG+ range at best and I assume that's pretty universal (?).
With stores/boutiques I don't mind shelling out (usually the $20-50 range) for good stuff in good condition, especially if I'm traveling and it's something I know I'm unlikely to find back in CT (which is most good/rare R&B/soul stuff). My favorites are Dusty Groove and Good Records NYC. I can spend an hour in either place and walk out with a pile of stuff I'd never find in a year's worth of Connecticut flea markets--to me, it's well worth the money (and at both places I find the prices very fair) for the convenience and consistently high quality of merchandise.
As I've seen other strutters mention, record stores that don't have price stickers can be a blessing and a curse. There's really only one store I go to like this, and usually if I'm quoted a price that's too high when I get to the register, I'll put the record back in the racks, come back a few months later and hope I get a lower price. This has worked for me a number of times, but only because I don't think this place gets a lot of shoppers who are looking for the same stuff I want. At a place with higher turnover my record probably wouldn't last so long in the racks, even if I hid it in the classical section.
Ebay I see more as a research tool for records but occasionally I'll use it as a last resort, when I can't find a certain record at any of my usual haunts and I've basically given up on finding it "in the field." Or, very rarely, when there's a record on my mind right this minute and I see it at a reasonable price, I might go for it...but it feels like cheating.
So what do y'all do? Anyone diverge wildly from what I've written?
To me the level of organization & care a seller puts into their stock is proportional to the price they can fairly ask. I'm fairly certain everybody agrees with this notion. Usually people aren't gonna pay boutique prices at the flea market, even if there's a decent level of organization going on.
Regarding flea markets--I'm looking to spend $1 per 45 or if I'm lucky, less. It seems like that's pretty standard fare. I'll up the ante if someone's got particularly good/clean stuff, with company sleeves, etc... But I've rarely ever dropped more than $2 on a flea market 45. LPs are tougher as they don't seem to be governed by the unwritten "buck a pop" rule--people's prices seem to be all over the map. Which is a big part of why I usually focus on the 45s--sellers usually dump them in an unorganized box on the ground while giving undue attention to organizing and hawking their crate of Streisand, Mantovani, and Kingston Trio LPs. It also seems to me--and maybe this is just at my local market--that there's less competition from other record hounds over the 45s and again, undue attention given to the LPs.
My biggest weakness at the flea market--though I'm getting better--is that I end up buying 45s in less than ideal condition just because they're on my want list or I know they're rare. But with flea market stuff in general I find I'm almost always settling for 45s in the VG/VG+ range at best and I assume that's pretty universal (?).
With stores/boutiques I don't mind shelling out (usually the $20-50 range) for good stuff in good condition, especially if I'm traveling and it's something I know I'm unlikely to find back in CT (which is most good/rare R&B/soul stuff). My favorites are Dusty Groove and Good Records NYC. I can spend an hour in either place and walk out with a pile of stuff I'd never find in a year's worth of Connecticut flea markets--to me, it's well worth the money (and at both places I find the prices very fair) for the convenience and consistently high quality of merchandise.
As I've seen other strutters mention, record stores that don't have price stickers can be a blessing and a curse. There's really only one store I go to like this, and usually if I'm quoted a price that's too high when I get to the register, I'll put the record back in the racks, come back a few months later and hope I get a lower price. This has worked for me a number of times, but only because I don't think this place gets a lot of shoppers who are looking for the same stuff I want. At a place with higher turnover my record probably wouldn't last so long in the racks, even if I hid it in the classical section.
Ebay I see more as a research tool for records but occasionally I'll use it as a last resort, when I can't find a certain record at any of my usual haunts and I've basically given up on finding it "in the field." Or, very rarely, when there's a record on my mind right this minute and I see it at a reasonable price, I might go for it...but it feels like cheating.
So what do y'all do? Anyone diverge wildly from what I've written?
Comments
It'd great to have some "running mates" as you say but none of my friends are into this scene. My only, occasional record hunting companion is my lil' brother who's enthusiastic but knows a lot less than I do. I've essentially been collecting in a vacuum for the last few years, basically just learning from a few good blogs and trial n' error out in the field. So please forgive me if with this thread I'm asking stupid/obvious questions...I'm just trying to pick up a thing or two from the more experienced and knowledgeable here.
My entire record philosophy is lifted from Kool Keith: "I just need what I need." Back in my breakbeat honeymoon phase, when I didn't know shit and was getting my by-any-means on, I was thrilled to pay five bucks for a sealed copy of Rhythm Heritage's Sky's The Limit on cassette, purchased at some music store in Charleston out of a glass case like it was a nugget ring at Zale's. That was a long time ago, but in every way that matters, I'm still pretty much that guy. On some level, you have to not really give a fuck, you know? Price, condition, format, whatever--just get what you need.
Almost without exception, the dudes I know who adhere too closely to any kind of standard--genre, condition, price, etc.--either have lots of really wack, impersonal records or have lots of really good records but nothing interesting to say about any of them. Excessive curating is for the birds, as is worrying too much about commerce.
My advice would be to think less about the bread and circuses surrounding the shopping for and purchasing of records and instead work on developing a more aristocratic sense of your own taste. Buy as much music as you can, listen to as much music as you can, think a lot about why exactly it is you like what you like, and as much as possible, stay off the fucking internet.
And to the extent that I have any standard concerning collecting, it is this: If you're over thirty, and if I come over to your house to listen to records, and if I ask you to show me your disco records, then you'd better have some shit for me. That is all.
^^^^in a nutshell^^^^
The internet is one of the BEST places to buy records (if you have the cash).
Hey,
As usual, James stated the case superbly.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Big fucking cosign to all of that.
Kindly,
parallax
Edit: just to be clear, I'm not against eBay(I use it all the time) but I don't think it's a substitute for the experience of diggin.
Word
I'd be dead and buried if I had to wait for records I want to turn up in the real world
Just caught a rare break though, a friends dad gave me his record collection, didn't really care about money (let's just say money's not an issue in this case). A lot of tepid 70s and 80s jazz fusion, but at least I'll get to know if there's anything good on those albums I'd never even listen to otherwise. So I'll be going digging in my own home for a while now!
I think Rey may be slightly overstating the case (or taking the piss) but the point to be gleaned frem Rey is this: ignroing the internet as source of information about and supply of records in 2012 is ridiculous. I buy what I want to buy on-line if the price is right and/or if I hear something that rocks my socks off and I have to have (usually to play out) but I spend at least as much tiem digging in the real world because, as other have said, there's still plenty of records to discover that have not made their way to the internet if you look hard enough.
while their prices are skyrocketting, don't allow me to set standards.
In my specific case, standards = availability, I mean, if there aren't lots
of records to be found I have to get what I can find for the price I can pay.
To me setting standards means that I'll pass on some records that I'm not
sure I'll see again or find for a reasonable price.
I even have some cracked singles (play fine, though) that I never saw
another copy.
Peace
What TheKindCromang wrote was probably the sort of reply I originally expected to get with this thread--some sort of personal guideline you might use for collecting. James went beyond that into collecting philosophy, touching more on the WHY one collects rather than HOW...which is cool. For me it's always been about the love of music and finding great stuff I've never heard, and to a certain degree I'm not gonna refuse a record I want when it's staring me in the face. That's why I have a bunch of scratchy flea market finds--but usually I try to avoid stuff that's less than VG+, and while bargains are always great at the very least I have to feel like the price is fair. The value of the records never mattered too much to me except as a way to gauge their rarity since I'm pretty much only buying to keep. Reynaldo--It IS nice when you can flip something outside your area of interest (like I did last weekend with that garage 45, the first record I've ever eBayed) to support the habit. Goes a long way towards vindicating the hobby in the eyes of the wife, too! I agree with those who say there's much more value to digging than being just a means to reach eBay goals--I couldn't think of it in such a business-like way.
I understand the "stay away from the internet" sentiment, but as several of you said, to shun it completely isn't realistic, especially for those living in remote places. Personally I don't get to spend all that much time/money digging, ESPECIALLY now that I'm married, and in the midst of flea market off-season the temptation of eBay is worse than ever for me right now. The most satisfying thing in all of collecting to me is stumbling across something I've never heard of, taking a chance on it, and having it turn out to be awesome. If it also happens to be really cheap, that's just a bonus. As many pointed out--the dilemma is, you don't get those thrills (or stories) on eBay but as Parallax and gaz say, there are lots of records you can't spend your life waiting for.
I think most will agree that a mix of both methods is ideal, and you may lean more heavily towards real-world digging or eBay/internet according to preference/necessity.
i didnt start using e-bay until about a year and half ago and im honestly sort of disappointed i didnt start using it sooner as i've checked off all sorts of stuff i've wanted for years. e-bay auctions (especially linked from this site) have put me on to TONS of rare stuff i never even knew exsisted and that i would never have known about in real world diggin situations.
that being said i still pound the streets for real world finds probably once or twice a week and still spend too much on records in 2012. i do throw an all vinyl, all genre dance party once a month so it does give me sort of an excuse as well...
I like to boutique diggin everytime i travel, because it's a fun way to discover a town and leads me to
visit neighbourhood i would never have been (as record shop are usualy not in the touristic center).
I like to flea-market and go to see so called "collections" to find crappy records in bad shape but to have
story to tell.
I never by under VG+ condition (for the record)
But after more than 15 years of diggin i must say that i90% of the pleasure is more in the resarch than in the listening.
If it's a 5$ island funk lp w/ a break that I know someone will want on the net sure I'll flip it, but I'm not a grip and flip type, I make my bread other ways. WRT #2 the only time I'll buy a double is if my copy is beat or I'm grabbing it for a friend.
This is where I am. While I am aware of collectible labels/genres/etc., I'm not looking for The Great Breakbeat In The Sky or trying to put John Tefteller out of business - I'm just digging in the crates for what I like. And even in modern times, it is possible to stick to the cheaper bins without being forced to buy wall-to-wall-chud. I did alright at last fall's Ponderosa Stomp record show in New Orleans without having to pay some exorbitant amount.
It used to be, in record collecting, that if you managed to get even a semi-rare record for cheap, you were getting over. Only in the last decade has overspending for a record become a badge of honor.
I mostly buy records (+ purging) for flipping theese days, in order to buy more stocks and save money. I don't care for the condition as long as I know it will sell for decent money. I only use Ebay for selling rare euro records.
Sometimes I buy records for listenning too. The last one I get was Deodato - Percepcao for 19$ on ebay. My ebay bying approach is not rush with bidding to get the records. Just be patient and you will after a while find the record for a good price.
I probably bought around 12 records last year. Will buy less than 20 this year, but they'll all be ones I've wanted for a long long time.
I've managed to do both.
Sure, I take chances, but my guesses are educated. I don't just buy Because It's There or Because The Cover Looks Good (which may be how the whole "lounge music" craze of two decades ago got started).