It's rather symptomatic of the times that you seem to be more concerned that there should be entertainment that merely talks about change, rather than looking at actual action in the real world.
I think this is a good point.
However, for my part I just think it is sad that when so many people are effectively disenfranchised or unrepresented by their governments that there is no artist who can at least provide a voice, however futile or impotent it actually is, as a counterweight or as a focus of this expression. I think the symbolism of dissent is an important element to bolster actual changes.
I think it has something to do with a general move from collective/universal thinking to individualistic concern. We might be sheep when it comes to consumerism, but what is important to people on a personal/political/etc. level is harder to pin down with one movement, one voice. I think the variety of groups and placards at G20 protests and the lack of "focus" of the Occupy movements speaks to this. Hell, too many interests/complaints from too many sides is one of the reasons why the movement in Iran failed.
I have to agree with Okem above. We can lament there is no one to sing about it or we can go out and be it.
It comes down to how one views activism, too. I know it's a combination of both, but I tend to lean to one side a bit more and think it's on people first and the arts are a reflection, refinement, conduit, etc. of the mood, more than the arts prompting people on the couch to suddenly leap up and work for change.
The premise of this thread is fucked. The pop mainstream is the visible face of corporate entertainment culture. That's not where you're going to find the social revolutionaries you're hoping for. Stop waiting for George Clooney to fall into your approval range and do something yourself.
Yup.
In the past there was an underground.
I dont know if the way the game is structured these days that new art challenging the mainstream later to be co-opted is going to be made like that again.
I recall KRS sayin that Hip Hop is the last voice.
I hope kids raised on pop trash and the internets can come up with something that could spark some shit.
Maybe the 13 year old witnessing The Occupy stuff will be moved to make some shit.
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
So why expect the young people today, who've grown up in a time of relative peace and extreme prosperity, to react enact change in quite the same ways as their grandparents.
This. Plus, kicking against the pricks today is going to look pretty different than it did 40 years ago. One of my favourite rebel acts is hacking.
batmon said:
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
It did create a lot of angry kids, just that most of them don't live on this continent.
So why expect the young people today, who've grown up in a time of relative peace and extreme prosperity, to react enact change in quite the same ways as their grandparents.
This. Plus, kicking against the pricks today is going to look pretty different than it did 40 years ago. One of my favourite rebel acts is hacking.
batmon said:
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
It did create a lot of angry kids, just that most of them don't live on this continent.
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
It did create a lot of angry kids, just that most of them don't live on this continent.
link to the music pleeze
This thraed is really showing some disconnectedness. If people the people around you aren't angry about what is going on around them and trying to do something better, then you don't live where I do. Most likely if you came to visit me you would expect I wear a cleaner tshirt.
The far bigger problem as I see it, if some kid uploads his song on youtube, are the Batmons and Rockadelic's of the world competent enough to hear it?
.
That would probably depend on whether the kid had been properly taught to be angry or not.
The far bigger problem as I see it, if some kid uploads his song on youtube, are the Batmons and Rockadelic's of the world competent enough to hear it?
.
That would probably depend on whether the kid had been properly taught to be angry or not.
The kid has. That's the reason he is on youtube expressing his opinions and disagreements with the world, rather than playing Call of Duty. That was my point. Thanks for proving it, as usual.
An important rule you learn as a musicians is try not to burn down all your bridges.. You never know when you will directly influence people with your actions. I understand why young artists are not taking any risks.. It's simply easier to play it safe, and follow the herd. Even if it's leading you off a cliff.
- spidey
If that really is a consideration being made or a reason for artists to not be controversial/political that would be a real loss imo
LaserWolf said:
staxwax said:
We had Dylan, the Stones, the Beatles...
The only thing radical about Dylan, Stones and Beatles was that our parents hated them.
True, that very very early on Dylan made a few pointed political songs.
Stones made a few vaguely violent songs.
The Beatles made a few songs about everybody loving everybody.
John Lennon made a few political statements about war being bad.
George Harrison did a benefit concert, there is controversy over whether the proceeds were distributed as promised.
That's about it for how political those groups were.
I really cant agree with this. Its not even a question of being a fan of these guys but the way you put it here is really understating the social/political influence these guys had in their time.
Flomotion said:
The premise of this thread is fucked. The pop mainstream is the visible face of corporate entertainment culture. That's not where you're going to find the social revolutionaries you're hoping for. Stop waiting for George Clooney to fall into your approval range and do something yourself.
Im not waiting for anyone to fall into my approval range - 'do something yourself' is a ridiculous argument to bring into a critique of the state of popular music.
neil_something said:
However, for my part I just think it is sad that when so many people are effectively disenfranchised or unrepresented by their governments that there is no artist who can at least provide a voice, however futile or impotent it actually is, as a counterweight or as a focus of this expression. I think the symbolism of dissent is an important element to bolster actual changes.
I'm in total agreement here.
bassie said:
I tend to lean to one side a bit more and think it's on people first and the arts are a reflection, refinement, conduit, etc. of the mood, more than the arts prompting people on the couch to suddenly leap up and work for change.
I'd agree - but still, the absence of a voice of dissent is an obvious reflection of something vital disappearing from popular music. That's an observation anyone into music can validly make whether they're an activist or not.
batmon said:
I hope kids raised on pop trash and the internets can come up with something that could spark some shit.
Maybe the 13 year old witnessing The Occupy stuff will be moved to make some shit.
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
well again this is kinda my point. or rather - why the fusk hasn't this 'sparking of some shit' happened yet?
Horseleech said:
It is truly a sad day on the internet when Miley Cyrus is held up as an agent of social change.
Jay Z too, for that matter.
sayin tho
batmon said:
bassie said:
batmon said:
music or stfu
You sound angry. Clearly, you need to achieve more.
When I went to the first big Occupy demonstration in my city, one of the more striking things I noticed was that a good 70% of the thousand or so people there were between 35 and 55 and dressed like school teachers on their day off. There really weren't huge blocks of students or young creative-class artists, none of the hot shot local bands tied themselves into it. I barely even saw any crusty anarcho kids actually. Then, a few days later this article came out and sort of attempted to crystallize what has been going on in the creative youth culture for at least a decade now. Probably longer really...
Nothing is more anti-corporate than churning out mixtapes on one???s own ???label???, recorded in one???s bedroom with a bunch of your friends, but it doesn???t rate because it???s about chicks and chains. (Though there are The Oscar Grant Project-type releases, too)
Every other week, there???s something in the news up here about some 9 year old raising thousands of dollars with a lemonade stand for this disease and that Rwandan schoolhouse, but today???s youth are uninvolved and apathetic.
I volunteer with Muslim teenage girls in hijabs who are on every sports team in their schools, will be the first to go on to university in their families and whose favourite artist is JCole, because ???he???s saying something real" and who also happens to have a pretty intelligent song about abortion, but he doesn???t rate because he???s affiliated with Jay-Z and doesn???t fit yesteryear???s definition of rebel music.
Maybe the definition of what it means to fight the good fight needs to be updated and expanded.
Nothing is more anti-corporate than churning out mixtapes on one???s own ???label???, recorded in one???s bedroom with a bunch of your friends, but it doesn???t rate because it???s about chicks and chains. (Though there are The Oscar Grant Project-type releases, too)
Every other week, there???s something in the news up here about some 9 year old raising thousands of dollars with a lemonade stand for this disease and that Rwandan schoolhouse, but today???s youth are uninvolved and apathetic.
I volunteer with Muslim teenage girls in hijabs who are on every sports team in their schools, will be the first to go on to university in their families and whose favourite artist is JCole, because ???he???s saying something real" and who also happens to have a pretty intelligent song about abortion, but he doesn???t rate because he???s affiliated with Jay-Z and doesn???t fit yesteryear???s definition of rebel music.
Maybe the definition of what it means to fight the good fight needs to be updated and expanded.
He was specifically asking about anti-corporate music in pop culture, not people doing charitable stuff in general.
I am still confused. Maybe I am working with different ideas of corporate and mainstream. Only one thing I cited was about charitable works.
edit-I don't have a working television or an Apple product. I just got wireless at home and have a cell phone that is only one or two wires away from being a garage door opener (I still have to click three times to get to the letter F). I didn't know who Bruno Mars or Bradley Cooper were til this summer and have never had a Strabucks coffee.
I'm out of my element.
I think the truth is that the younger generation doesn't have the same relationship to corporate interests that my peer group (and the peer groups above me) did.
I think that probably has a lot to do with young people being employed by these companies to think up more cleverer marketing campaigns, use more with-it musical selections, and generally streamline product offerings so that they not only make the company a lot of money, but the general public (including counter-cultural revolutionary types) love them. Hence, the embrace of Apple amidst OWS and the like.
Back in our days, the corporate overlords were hopelessly out of it and patronizing. Now, they're getting it a little more right.
I find this thread totally pointless and cloying, but that's my best attempt at an answer.
Also, fwiw, kids in the hood have computers and shit. Redevelopment, despite its faults and shortcomings, has made the basic standard of living more betterer in a lot of places (despite obvious income inequality etc etc etc). Of course, not everywhere... but in a lot of places, it's not like it was. Dudes act like they want the Bronx to remain burnt out, so Immortal Technique can plug a SP1200 into a lamppost like this was 1976. CTFO
Comments
Hah, yeah, once it gets worse!
Gather 'round kids. Here's the devil himself. Old man apathy.
I think it has something to do with a general move from collective/universal thinking to individualistic concern. We might be sheep when it comes to consumerism, but what is important to people on a personal/political/etc. level is harder to pin down with one movement, one voice. I think the variety of groups and placards at G20 protests and the lack of "focus" of the Occupy movements speaks to this. Hell, too many interests/complaints from too many sides is one of the reasons why the movement in Iran failed.
I have to agree with Okem above. We can lament there is no one to sing about it or we can go out and be it.
It comes down to how one views activism, too. I know it's a combination of both, but I tend to lean to one side a bit more and think it's on people first and the arts are a reflection, refinement, conduit, etc. of the mood, more than the arts prompting people on the couch to suddenly leap up and work for change.
Yup.
In the past there was an underground.
I dont know if the way the game is structured these days that new art challenging the mainstream later to be co-opted is going to be made like that again.
I recall KRS sayin that Hip Hop is the last voice.
I hope kids raised on pop trash and the internets can come up with something that could spark some shit.
Maybe the 13 year old witnessing The Occupy stuff will be moved to make some shit.
I thought 9-11 was gonna create some angry kids music. Its now 2012..........
This. Plus, kicking against the pricks today is going to look pretty different than it did 40 years ago. One of my favourite rebel acts is hacking.
It did create a lot of angry kids, just that most of them don't live on this continent.
link to the music pleeze
edit - but if you are really interested, a search on Arab rap/hip hop will turn up some things
This thraed is really showing some disconnectedness. If people the people around you aren't angry about what is going on around them and trying to do something better, then you don't live where I do. Most likely if you came to visit me you would expect I wear a cleaner tshirt.
A true Revolutionary with a clean T-Shirt....pfft.
b/w
The less one acheives in life the more hate and anger they have inside them
Less of a problem of supply than demand.
What types of achievements?
Jay Z too, for that matter.
That would probably depend on whether the kid had been properly taught to be angry or not.
The kid has. That's the reason he is on youtube expressing his opinions and disagreements with the world, rather than playing Call of Duty. That was my point. Thanks for proving it, as usual.
You sound angry. Clearly, you need to achieve more.
Hold me?
We all know you're not tryin' to check for anything from outside the US if it's remotely anything to do with rap.
What do you want me to sing while I comfort you?
F*ck the Police? (old or new)
Whitey on the Moon?
The Devil Made Me Do It?
Point of No Return?
If that really is a consideration being made or a reason for artists to not be controversial/political that would be a real loss imo
I really cant agree with this. Its not even a question of being a fan of these guys but the way you put it here is really understating the social/political influence these guys had in their time.
Im not waiting for anyone to fall into my approval range - 'do something yourself' is a ridiculous argument to bring into a critique of the state of popular music.
I'm in total agreement here.
I'd agree - but still, the absence of a voice of dissent is an obvious reflection of something vital disappearing from popular music. That's an observation anyone into music can validly make whether they're an activist or not.
well again this is kinda my point. or rather - why the fusk hasn't this 'sparking of some shit' happened yet?
sayin tho
take it to pm
Do u have any examples of POPULAR music that Staxwax is requesting?
I do not necessarily agree with this article, but I absolutely recognize the disingenuous nature of the young people around me.
- spidey
Ill settle for any current music attacking the cheesy corporate bitch syndrome with genuine potential for mass appeal
Nothing is more anti-corporate than churning out mixtapes on one???s own ???label???, recorded in one???s bedroom with a bunch of your friends, but it doesn???t rate because it???s about chicks and chains. (Though there are The Oscar Grant Project-type releases, too)
Every other week, there???s something in the news up here about some 9 year old raising thousands of dollars with a lemonade stand for this disease and that Rwandan schoolhouse, but today???s youth are uninvolved and apathetic.
I volunteer with Muslim teenage girls in hijabs who are on every sports team in their schools, will be the first to go on to university in their families and whose favourite artist is JCole, because ???he???s saying something real" and who also happens to have a pretty intelligent song about abortion, but he doesn???t rate because he???s affiliated with Jay-Z and doesn???t fit yesteryear???s definition of rebel music.
Maybe the definition of what it means to fight the good fight needs to be updated and expanded.
He was specifically asking about anti-corporate music in pop culture, not people doing charitable stuff in general.
edit-I don't have a working television or an Apple product. I just got wireless at home and have a cell phone that is only one or two wires away from being a garage door opener (I still have to click three times to get to the letter F). I didn't know who Bruno Mars or Bradley Cooper were til this summer and have never had a Strabucks coffee.
I'm out of my element.
I think that probably has a lot to do with young people being employed by these companies to think up more cleverer marketing campaigns, use more with-it musical selections, and generally streamline product offerings so that they not only make the company a lot of money, but the general public (including counter-cultural revolutionary types) love them. Hence, the embrace of Apple amidst OWS and the like.
Back in our days, the corporate overlords were hopelessly out of it and patronizing. Now, they're getting it a little more right.
I find this thread totally pointless and cloying, but that's my best attempt at an answer.
Also, fwiw, kids in the hood have computers and shit. Redevelopment, despite its faults and shortcomings, has made the basic standard of living more betterer in a lot of places (despite obvious income inequality etc etc etc). Of course, not everywhere... but in a lot of places, it's not like it was. Dudes act like they want the Bronx to remain burnt out, so Immortal Technique can plug a SP1200 into a lamppost like this was 1976. CTFO