What is really not a good look was the new Governor of Hawaii stating after he was elected in November that he was gonna put an end to this bullshit once and for all and produce a Birth Certificate that even the crazies couldn't dispute only to claim after he was in office. "Ummm...I can't find it".
"State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent"
So the Governor spoke out of turn, didn't have the authority and they won't/can't get permission from the President to just release the document the Governor says will shut these Birthers up??
If the reason is to just give these nuts more fuel for their fire, it's working.
You're assuming that the birthers would be satisfied if Hawaii produced the "real" birth certificate. There's nothing to support that.
I don't know about birth certificates, but many newborns are born into a religion.
Jewish boys are marked as Jews days after birth. Many Christian children are baptized as newborns. Other religions have naming ceremonies and other traditions to bring newborns into the fold.
I don't know about birth certificates, but many newborns are born into a religion.
Jewish boys are marked as Jews days after birth. Many Christian children are baptized as newborns. Other religions have naming ceremonies and other traditions to bring newborns into the fold.
No doubt. I was baptized shortly after birth. I'm just not sure there's a box one can check on the BC document to indicate the "religion of the child", which would dispell the theory that Obama's BC says he's a Muslim. I was born in California, and don't recall there being a "religion" box. However, I can't find my BC right now, so I guess I can't be President.
What is really not a good look was the new Governor of Hawaii stating after he was elected in November that he was gonna put an end to this bullshit once and for all and produce a Birth Certificate that even the crazies couldn't dispute only to claim after he was in office. "Ummm...I can't find it".
"State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent"
So the Governor spoke out of turn, didn't have the authority and they won't/can't get permission from the President to just release the document the Governor says will shut these Birthers up??
If the reason is to just give these nuts more fuel for their fire, it's working.
You're assuming that the birthers would be satisfied if Hawaii produced the "real" birth certificate. There's nothing to support that.
I'm not assuming anything....who cares if they believe it or not.....common sense says if you can prove them wrong, do it.
If I had further proof of Evolution I would certainly release it even if Christians wouldn't believe it....wouldn't you?
dollar_binI heartily endorse this product and/or event 2,326 Posts
LaserWolf said:
Except I don't think Daniels will run.
Pity.
Of course, I hear he might have done some dirt back in his narcotics squad days, there's unexplained income. Burrell has the file.
If Trump runs, I'm looking forward to someone asking him point blank about the combover.
What is really not a good look was the new Governor of Hawaii stating after he was elected in November that he was gonna put an end to this bullshit once and for all and produce a Birth Certificate that even the crazies couldn't dispute only to claim after he was in office. "Ummm...I can't find it".
"State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent"
So the Governor spoke out of turn, didn't have the authority and they won't/can't get permission from the President to just release the document the Governor says will shut these Birthers up??
If the reason is to just give these nuts more fuel for their fire, it's working.
You're assuming that the birthers would be satisfied if Hawaii produced the "real" birth certificate. There's nothing to support that.
I'm not assuming anything....who cares if they believe it or not.....common sense says if you can prove them wrong, do it.
If I had further proof of Evolution I would certainly release it even if Christians wouldn't believe it....wouldn't you?
Common sense already tells me that Obama HAS proven them wrong. Providing additional (non-essential) information on top of information that not only the State of Hawaii, but also the State Department of the United States has deemed legally sufficient, in order to quell a mob of irrational rubes sets a poor precedent, IMO. Why should Obama be held to a different standard than every other American is held to, including past Presidents? Where does it stop?
Obama has already proven his status as a natural born citizen. Evolution is still (basically) a debatable theory, so your evolution analogy isn't that great. Unless, of course, you believe that Obama's status as a natural-born citizen is a debatable theory. I don't.
No doubt. I was baptized shortly after birth. I'm just not sure there's a box one can check on the BC document to indicate the "religion of the child", which would dispell the theory that Obama's BC says he's a Muslim. I was born in California, and don't recall there being a "religion" box. However, I can't find my BC right now, so I guess I can't be President.
Some states have this listed on the long form and some do not. I'm not sure if it would have been required info in any event. The version they give you does not always contain all of the info listed on the OG. The type the hospital gives you is a souvenir and not a legal birth certificate.
You never had your OG birth certificate (unless you broke into the DOH office and stole it), so don't let that stop you from running.
The Rs want to run government like a business, and that is the way Trump has run his.
This is the perception Trump wants you to believe. Dude has run his companies into Bankruptcy so many times - and they're fucking casino's to boot (which is basically a giant operation that prints money for itself).
Trump is not some business prodigy, although you'd think that because he has his own show about business! And he has his name on all this shit etc etc. I dont even think he owns most of the buildings labeled Trump anymore.
Personally I'd love to see Trump win the republican ticket because it would really split up their party imo. There's tons of republicans who would never vote for Trump in the actual electrion I'm sure. We'd probably see the kind of republican voter turn out that the democrat's struggle to get.
Common sense already tells me that Obama HAS proven them wrong. Providing additional (non-essential) information on top of information that not only the State of Hawaii, but also the State Department of the United States has deemed legally sufficient, in order to quell a mob of irrational rubes sets a poor precedent, IMO. Why should Obama be held to a different standard than every other American is held to, including past Presidents? Where does it stop?
Obama has already proven his status as a natural born citizen. Evolution is still (basically) a debatable theory, so your evolution analogy isn't that great. Unless, of course, you believe that Obama's status as a natural-born citizen is a debatable theory. I don't.
Personally I'm convinced on both counts and don't think Evolution is "debatable" at all.
My comment was simply that the Governor of Hawaii, who apparently thought producing some sort of document would prove something, came off looking bad when he couldn't.
If I were the President I would sign the release, especially if not doing so would be used against my 2012 campaign as described by Horseleech above and cost me even one vote.
I'm certainly open to hearing an argument as to why releasing it would do more harm than good beyond why capitulate to dumb-ass people.
The Rs want to run government like a business, and that is the way Trump has run his.
This is the perception Trump wants you to believe. Dude has run his companies into Bankruptcy so many times - and they're fucking casino's to boot (which is basically a giant operation that prints money for itself).
Trump is not some business prodigy, although you'd think that because he has his own show about business! And he has his name on all this shit etc etc. I dont even think he owns most of the buildings labeled Trump anymore.
My point. I was co-signing Saba's post about Trump:
Declare bankruptcy and discharge all our debt to the Chinese.
The Rs want to run government like a business, and that is the way Trump has run his.
This is the perception Trump wants you to believe. Dude has run his companies into Bankruptcy so many times - and they're fucking casino's to boot (which is basically a giant operation that prints money for itself).
Trump is not some business prodigy, although you'd think that because he has his own show about business! And he has his name on all this shit etc etc. I dont even think he owns most of the buildings labeled Trump anymore.
Personally I'd love to see Trump win the republican ticket because it would really split up their party imo. There's tons of republicans who would never vote for Trump in the actual electrion I'm sure. We'd probably see the kind of republican voter turn out that the democrat's struggle to get.
I'd guess that a nomination of Trump by the GOP would bring some slug - Bachmann, perhaps - out of the mud to run on a Teabagger ticket.
The Rs want to run government like a business, and that is the way Trump has run his.
This is the perception Trump wants you to believe. Dude has run his companies into Bankruptcy so many times - and they're fucking casino's to boot (which is basically a giant operation that prints money for itself).
Trump is not some business prodigy, although you'd think that because he has his own show about business! And he has his name on all this shit etc etc. I dont even think he owns most of the buildings labeled Trump anymore.
My point. I was co-signing Saba's post about Trump:
Declare bankruptcy and discharge all our debt to the Chinese.
I guess if people are actually believing that Donald Trump could get the Republican nomination Ron Paul getting it isn't THAT crazy.
I'd bet against it though....he's pissed off way too many empowered Republicans.
You're overestimating his outsider status. He's a Super-Christian and anti-choice and an extreme anti-tax guy and has a big following in the party. You also seem to forget that he ran as a Republican in 2008 and did much better than Giuliani or Romney. By the time he dropped out he was, I think, behind only Huckabee and McCain in terms of delegates won.
He also raised TONS of campaign money. I doubt that he can win but he could certainly be a factor.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey,
I doubt seriously that "The Donald" will receive the GOP nod. I say this because, as a Southerner by birth, I cannot imagine fundamentalist Christian, redneck-Bob types ever voting for Donald Trump. He is too far from their preference for a bible-toting "good Christian" who espouses "strong family values." Bear in mind, I don't perceive these type of voters to be good Christians themselves given their "Christian beliefs" on the one hand, and their homophobia, racism, xenophobia and such on the other hand. The sad reality is that this "type" of voter represents the majority of America, of course with varying degress of the "isms" and "phobias" listed above, who reside in the majority rural centers of the country. Given this situation, it doesn't surprise me that the GOP (and dems for that matter to an extent) tend to offer up relatively sanitized, middle-of-the-road candidates deemed to be most palatable to the masses. Clearly, "The Donald" does not fit this profile for the GOP.
I doubt seriously that "The Donald" will receive the GOP nod. I say this because, as a Southerner by birth, I cannot imagine fundamentalist Christian, redneck-Bob types ever voting for Donald Trump. He is too far from their preference for a bible-toting "good Christian" who espouses "strong family values." Bear in mind, I don't perceive these type of voters to be good Christians themselves given their "Christian beliefs" on the one hand, and their homophobia, racism, xenophobia and such on the other hand. The sad reality is that this "type" of voter represents the majority of America, of course with varying degress of the "isms" and "phobias" listed above, who reside in the majority rural centers of the country. Given this situation, it doesn't surprise me that the GOP (and dems for that matter to an extent) tend to offer up relatively sanitized, middle-of-the-road candidates deemed to be most palatable to the masses. Clearly, "The Donald" does not fit this profile for the GOP.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
In almost every other year I would agree with you, but this year just feels very different to me. There is no genuine "Establishment" candidate. Romney's too Mormon, Newt is the sleaziest asshole in America, Pawlenty is kidding himself, and Ron Paul thinks Jews are space aliens who control Zurich or something. It's a big wild card year for the Republicans. What it reminds me of the most is 1976 when the Dems had at least 14 candidates running and somehow Jimmy Carter came out of the pack.
I would not be surprised if the GOP coughs up a strange wad this time around.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
BobDesperado said:
Big_Stacks said:
Hey,
I doubt seriously that "The Donald" will receive the GOP nod. I say this because, as a Southerner by birth, I cannot imagine fundamentalist Christian, redneck-Bob types ever voting for Donald Trump. He is too far from their preference for a bible-toting "good Christian" who espouses "strong family values." Bear in mind, I don't perceive these type of voters to be good Christians themselves given their "Christian beliefs" on the one hand, and their homophobia, racism, xenophobia and such on the other hand. The sad reality is that this "type" of voter represents the majority of America, of course with varying degress of the "isms" and "phobias" listed above, who reside in the majority rural centers of the country. Given this situation, it doesn't surprise me that the GOP (and dems for that matter to an extent) tend to offer up relatively sanitized, middle-of-the-road candidates deemed to be most palatable to the masses. Clearly, "The Donald" does not fit this profile for the GOP.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
In almost every other year I would agree with you, but this year just feels very different to me. There is no genuine "Establishment" candidate. Romney's too Mormon, Newt is the sleaziest asshole in America, Pawlenty is kidding himself, and Ron Paul thinks Jews are space aliens who control Zurich or something. It's a big wild card year for the Republicans. What it reminds me of the most is 1976 when the Dems had at least 14 candidates running and somehow Jimmy Carter came out of the pack.
I would not be surprised if the GOP coughs up a strange wad this time around.
Hey Bob,
I agree with you, but I feel Romney is "establishment" enough to get the nod owing to the current, lackluster field of GOP hopefuls. It's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. I think the GOP has a pretty weak field of candidates, sort of like the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
I agree with you, but I feel Romney is "establishment" enough to get the nod owing to the current, lackluster field of GOP hopefuls. It's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. I think the GOP has a pretty weak field of candidates, sort of like the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Gore won in 2000, though!
Seriously, though, Romney is kidding himself. I saw the guy up here for years and he doesn't have a genuine bone in his body. He's so stiff he makes John Kerry look like James Brown. He did zip in 2008 and nothing about him has changed since then, and he has the "I invented Obamacare" albatross to deal with, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.
I can't see it happening for him at all. He has MORE negatives this time around.
What's truly sad is that he'll get his ass kicked this time and he'll still be back again in 2016.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
BobDesperado said:
Big_Stacks said:
I agree with you, but I feel Romney is "establishment" enough to get the nod owing to the current, lackluster field of GOP hopefuls. It's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. I think the GOP has a pretty weak field of candidates, sort of like the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Gore won in 2000, though!
Seriously, though, Romney is kidding himself. I saw the guy up here for years and he doesn't have a genuine bone in his body. He's so stiff he makes John Kerry look like James Brown. He did zip in 2008 and nothing about him has changed since then, and he has the "I invented Obamacare" albatross to deal with, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.
I can't see it happening for him at all. He has MORE negatives this time around.
What's truly sad is that he'll get his ass kicked this time and he'll still be back again in 2016.
Hi Bob,
True, the GOP certainly does not have a strong frontrunner, so only time will tell who gets the nod. It could be very surprising.
Comments
You're assuming that the birthers would be satisfied if Hawaii produced the "real" birth certificate. There's nothing to support that.
Jewish boys are marked as Jews days after birth. Many Christian children are baptized as newborns. Other religions have naming ceremonies and other traditions to bring newborns into the fold.
[whisper]you just gotta believe..[/whisper]
As a Republican?
No doubt. I was baptized shortly after birth. I'm just not sure there's a box one can check on the BC document to indicate the "religion of the child", which would dispell the theory that Obama's BC says he's a Muslim. I was born in California, and don't recall there being a "religion" box. However, I can't find my BC right now, so I guess I can't be President.
I'm not assuming anything....who cares if they believe it or not.....common sense says if you can prove them wrong, do it.
If I had further proof of Evolution I would certainly release it even if Christians wouldn't believe it....wouldn't you?
Pity.
Of course, I hear he might have done some dirt back in his narcotics squad days, there's unexplained income. Burrell has the file.
If Trump runs, I'm looking forward to someone asking him point blank about the combover.
Common sense already tells me that Obama HAS proven them wrong. Providing additional (non-essential) information on top of information that not only the State of Hawaii, but also the State Department of the United States has deemed legally sufficient, in order to quell a mob of irrational rubes sets a poor precedent, IMO. Why should Obama be held to a different standard than every other American is held to, including past Presidents? Where does it stop?
Obama has already proven his status as a natural born citizen. Evolution is still (basically) a debatable theory, so your evolution analogy isn't that great. Unless, of course, you believe that Obama's status as a natural-born citizen is a debatable theory. I don't.
Some states have this listed on the long form and some do not. I'm not sure if it would have been required info in any event. The version they give you does not always contain all of the info listed on the OG. The type the hospital gives you is a souvenir and not a legal birth certificate.
You never had your OG birth certificate (unless you broke into the DOH office and stole it), so don't let that stop you from running.
This is the perception Trump wants you to believe. Dude has run his companies into Bankruptcy so many times - and they're fucking casino's to boot (which is basically a giant operation that prints money for itself).
Trump is not some business prodigy, although you'd think that because he has his own show about business! And he has his name on all this shit etc etc. I dont even think he owns most of the buildings labeled Trump anymore.
Personally I'd love to see Trump win the republican ticket because it would really split up their party imo. There's tons of republicans who would never vote for Trump in the actual electrion I'm sure. We'd probably see the kind of republican voter turn out that the democrat's struggle to get.
Personally I'm convinced on both counts and don't think Evolution is "debatable" at all.
My comment was simply that the Governor of Hawaii, who apparently thought producing some sort of document would prove something, came off looking bad when he couldn't.
If I were the President I would sign the release, especially if not doing so would be used against my 2012 campaign as described by Horseleech above and cost me even one vote.
I'm certainly open to hearing an argument as to why releasing it would do more harm than good beyond why capitulate to dumb-ass people.
My point. I was co-signing Saba's post about Trump:
Yes.
What odds would you need to make this bet??
I guess if people are actually believing that Donald Trump could get the Republican nomination Ron Paul getting it isn't THAT crazy.
I'd bet against it though....he's pissed off way too many empowered Republicans.
I'd guess that a nomination of Trump by the GOP would bring some slug - Bachmann, perhaps - out of the mud to run on a Teabagger ticket.
I would love that.
Ahhhh i see, my bad!
You're overestimating his outsider status. He's a Super-Christian and anti-choice and an extreme anti-tax guy and has a big following in the party. You also seem to forget that he ran as a Republican in 2008 and did much better than Giuliani or Romney. By the time he dropped out he was, I think, behind only Huckabee and McCain in terms of delegates won.
He also raised TONS of campaign money. I doubt that he can win but he could certainly be a factor.
I doubt seriously that "The Donald" will receive the GOP nod. I say this because, as a Southerner by birth, I cannot imagine fundamentalist Christian, redneck-Bob types ever voting for Donald Trump. He is too far from their preference for a bible-toting "good Christian" who espouses "strong family values." Bear in mind, I don't perceive these type of voters to be good Christians themselves given their "Christian beliefs" on the one hand, and their homophobia, racism, xenophobia and such on the other hand. The sad reality is that this "type" of voter represents the majority of America, of course with varying degress of the "isms" and "phobias" listed above, who reside in the majority rural centers of the country. Given this situation, it doesn't surprise me that the GOP (and dems for that matter to an extent) tend to offer up relatively sanitized, middle-of-the-road candidates deemed to be most palatable to the masses. Clearly, "The Donald" does not fit this profile for the GOP.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
In almost every other year I would agree with you, but this year just feels very different to me. There is no genuine "Establishment" candidate. Romney's too Mormon, Newt is the sleaziest asshole in America, Pawlenty is kidding himself, and Ron Paul thinks Jews are space aliens who control Zurich or something. It's a big wild card year for the Republicans. What it reminds me of the most is 1976 when the Dems had at least 14 candidates running and somehow Jimmy Carter came out of the pack.
I would not be surprised if the GOP coughs up a strange wad this time around.
Hey Bob,
I agree with you, but I feel Romney is "establishment" enough to get the nod owing to the current, lackluster field of GOP hopefuls. It's going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. I think the GOP has a pretty weak field of candidates, sort of like the Dems in 2000 and 2004.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Gore won in 2000, though!
Seriously, though, Romney is kidding himself. I saw the guy up here for years and he doesn't have a genuine bone in his body. He's so stiff he makes John Kerry look like James Brown. He did zip in 2008 and nothing about him has changed since then, and he has the "I invented Obamacare" albatross to deal with, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.
I can't see it happening for him at all. He has MORE negatives this time around.
What's truly sad is that he'll get his ass kicked this time and he'll still be back again in 2016.
Hi Bob,
True, the GOP certainly does not have a strong frontrunner, so only time will tell who gets the nod. It could be very surprising.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Busey should run. He looks tanned, rested and ready.