Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages

soulbrono1soulbrono1 205 Posts
edited March 2011 in Strut Central
From CNBC.com: http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

"Government payouts???including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance???make up more than a third of total wages and salaries of the U.S. population, a record figure that will only increase if action isn???t taken before the majority of Baby Boomers enter retirement."

...

"At the very least, we can take solace in the fact that we???re not quite at the state welfare levels of Europe. In the U.K., social welfare benefits make up 44 percent of wages and salaries, according to TrimTabs??? Schnapp."

Does anyone think this is a good thing?
«13

  Comments


  • Options
    What exactly makes Social Security or unemployment payments "handouts"?

    That's a pretty inane thread title.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Since social security and medicare are insurance programs that are paid for through worker contributions I don't see how these qualify as either welfare or handouts.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts


    Everywhere is freaks and hairys
    Dykes and fairies
    Tell me where is sanity?

    Tax the rich, feed the poor
    Till we run out, rich no more

    I'd love to change the world
    (Dee-dee-dee-dee)
    But I don't know what to do
    (Dee-eee-dee-dee-dee-dee)
    So I'll leave it up to you-ooo-ooo
    (Be in my prayer)

    Population, keeps on breedin'
    Nation bleedin', still more feedin'
    Economy

    Life is funny, skies are sunny
    Bees made honey, who needs money?
    Monopoly

    I'd love to change the world
    But I don't know what to do
    (Dee-eee-dee-dee-dee-dee)
    So I'll leave it up to you-you-ooo
    (We-eee-dee-dee-dee-dee)

    Oh, yeah! guitar break)

    (Rich or poor)
    (It's your fault)
    (Screw you)

    More pollutions, there's no solutions
    Restitution, mass confusions

    Spread the word
    Rich or poor
    Save the earth
    Stop the war

    Spoken:
    (And we've got nothin' to do)
    (Just turn on)

    I'd love to change the world
    But I don't know what to do
    So I'll leave it up to you-ooo-ooo, woo-ooo
    Woo-ooo-ooo-ooo
    (Dee-eee-dee-dee-dee-dee)

    Just turn me on.

  • If SS is just repayment of what was paid in I can see it it not being labeled as a handout. But doesn't a decent portion of the benefits go to folks who haven't paid in? If not, I don't really see the point for the program. 401K or IRA's would probably do better than SS for mere retirement. Additionally, it seems our future SS payout commitments outstrip the projected ingress and interest...so there are definitely handouts involved.

    The title comes straight from the title of the CNBC article. I just copied and pasted.

    In any case, an argument for an increase in government programs that redistibute wealth will only increase this figure, right?

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,899 Posts
    Is this like the GOP getting $600 mil cut from IRS budget which in turn loses $4 billion through tax collection?

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    soulbrono1 said:
    If SS is just repayment of what was paid in I can see it it not being labeled as a handout. But doesn't a decent portion of the benefits go to folks who haven't paid in? If not, I don't really see the point for the program. 401K or IRA's would probably do better than SS for mere retirement. Additionally, it seems our future SS payout commitments outstrip the projected ingress and interest...so there are definitely handouts involved.

    The title comes straight from the title of the CNBC article. I just copied and pasted.

    In any case, an argument for an increase in government programs that redistibute wealth will only increase this figure, right?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    social security is the greatest ponzi scheme of all time

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Brian said:
    social security is the greatest ponzi scheme of all time

    Actually it's not, or it's not supposed to be.

    My father was friends with the man who set up Social Security and it was very definitely supposed to be a 'locked box' wherein your money was put aside for you and the government could only take the interest.

    All of the money that the government has removed from SS was done so illegally - I'm amazed that some kind of massive class-action lawsuit has never been filed. When the day comes they can't make the scheduled payments all hell is going to break lose - or at least it should.

  • Options
    soulbrono1 said:
    If SS is just repayment of what was paid in I can see it it not being labeled as a handout. But doesn't a decent portion of the benefits go to folks who haven't paid in? If not, I don't really see the point for the program. 401K or IRA's would probably do better than SS for mere retirement. Additionally, it seems our future SS payout commitments outstrip the projected ingress and interest...so there are definitely handouts involved.

    The title comes straight from the title of the CNBC article. I just copied and pasted.

    In any case, an argument for an increase in government programs that redistibute wealth will only increase this figure, right?

    The whole glibertarian cheapskate world view would be funny if it were rare, but it's increasingly common and seems to be getting meaner by the day.

    The bogus concern about "government programs that redistribute wealth" would be more impressive if it also condemned the programs that redistribute wealth TO the wealthy as well as the ones that help the poor. But somehow that never seems to happen. It sure never happens with the inflamed bungholes at Fast Money.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    Brian said:
    social security is the greatest ponzi scheme of all time
    All of the money that the government has removed from SS was done so illegally - I'm amazed that some kind of massive class-action lawsuit has never been filed. When the day comes they can't make the scheduled payments all hell is going to break lose - or at least it should.
    isn't that what all the death panels are for

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    Brian said:
    social security is the greatest ponzi scheme of all time

    Actually it's not, or it's not supposed to be.

    My father was friends with the man who set up Social Security and it was very definitely supposed to be a 'locked box' wherein your money was put aside for you and the government could only take the interest.

    All of the money that the government has removed from SS was done so illegally - I'm amazed that some kind of massive class-action lawsuit has never been filed. When the day comes they can't make the scheduled payments all hell is going to break lose - or at least it should.

    While the government did borrow money from SS in the many years it produced surpluses, that does not break SS or make it bankrupt, or a ponzi, or any of the other things people are saying. All the money that was borrowed will be repaid.

    Not that people shouldn't be upset about it. The borrowing, allowed for low taxes (or high spending depending on your view point) in the past. It will likely mean higher taxes (or lower spending) in the future.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    All the money that was borrowed will be repaid.

    It will likely mean higher taxes (or lower spending) in the future.
    hahahahahahaha

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts


    Now there is a death panel.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    All the money that was borrowed will be repaid.

    What in the world is this statement based on?

    b/w

    The government owes trillions of dollars and SS is probably last in line to get repaid.

  • barjesusbarjesus 872 Posts
    I keep reading SS as Soul Strut...

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    soulbrono1 said:
    If SS is just repayment of what was paid in I can see it it not being labeled as a handout. But doesn't a decent portion of the benefits go to folks who haven't paid in?


    Isn't this something you should research before forming your opinion?

  • BobDesperado said:
    soulbrono1 said:
    If SS is just repayment of what was paid in I can see it it not being labeled as a handout. But doesn't a decent portion of the benefits go to folks who haven't paid in? If not, I don't really see the point for the program. 401K or IRA's would probably do better than SS for mere retirement. Additionally, it seems our future SS payout commitments outstrip the projected ingress and interest...so there are definitely handouts involved.

    The title comes straight from the title of the CNBC article. I just copied and pasted.

    In any case, an argument for an increase in government programs that redistibute wealth will only increase this figure, right?

    The whole glibertarian cheapskate world view would be funny if it were rare, but it's increasingly common and seems to be getting meaner by the day.

    The bogus concern about "government programs that redistribute wealth" would be more impressive if it also condemned the programs that redistribute wealth TO the wealthy as well as the ones that help the poor. But somehow that never seems to happen. It sure never happens with the inflamed bungholes at Fast Money.

    This.

  • mr.brettmr.brett 678 Posts
    .

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Strut has been en fuego today

  • Options
    mr.brett said:
    Where do you think the money came from in the first place? Wealthy people! "Redistributing" wealth back to the people you taxed is still wasteful. I'm pretty sure those with money complained about high taxes before, no?

    Federal taxes are lower now than they were at any point in the last 50 years. I haven't noticed that the complaining has diminished.

    As discussed elsewhere, capital gains taxes are at 15%, and many wealthy people get the bulk of their income from capital gains. Does that sound high to you?

    I'm waiting for the conservatives to start agitating for the return of poorhouses and Dickensian orphanages. Gingrich tried to bring the topic up in the 90s and got laughed at generally. But the GOP has gone further right since then, and it's much crazier. It's only a matter of time.

  • Options
    mr.brett said:
    Note that wealth redistribution would NOT boost happiness among the poor.

    That's so funny it deserves its own space.


  • BobDesperado said:
    mr.brett said:
    Note that wealth redistribution would NOT boost happiness among the poor.

    That's so funny it deserves its own space.


    The extent to which people have swallowed that propaganda is remarkable.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    BobDesperado said:
    mr.brett said:
    Note that wealth redistribution would NOT boost happiness among the poor.

    That's so funny it deserves its own space.

    Hey, money can't buy you love.

    It can, however, ensure greater access to the basic necessities to live a life of security, safety and dignity.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,899 Posts

    Where do you think the money came from in the first place? Wealthy people!


    Yeah... Right...

  • mr.brettmr.brett 678 Posts
    mannybolone said:
    BobDesperado said:
    mr.brett said:
    Note that wealth redistribution would NOT boost happiness among the poor.

    That's so funny it deserves its own space.

    Hey, money can't buy you love.

    It can, however, ensure greater access to the basic necessities to live a life of security, safety and dignity.

    Right (no sarcasm). I'm not arguing that we shouldn't pursue programs that reduce inequality. I don't think that having a larger government is going to magically cure our problems though.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    No, corporations will do that. They are looking out for our best interests.

  • mr.brettmr.brett 678 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    No, corporations will do that. They are looking out for our best interests.

    Not corporations, but markets. Yes, I think that markets are more efficient at allocating resources than governments. There are also organizations called "charities" too. Thanks for blowing it out to extremes though.

  • mr.brettmr.brett 678 Posts
    DOR said:

    Where do you think the money came from in the first place? Wealthy people!


    Yeah... Right...

    I think the middle class and upper middle class are still wealthy relative to the people who some would say would benefit from the redistribution of income.

  • mr.brettmr.brett 678 Posts
    BobDesperado said:
    mr.brett said:
    Where do you think the money came from in the first place? Wealthy people! "Redistributing" wealth back to the people you taxed is still wasteful. I'm pretty sure those with money complained about high taxes before, no?

    Federal taxes are lower now than they were at any point in the last 50 years. I haven't noticed that the complaining has diminished.
    .

    Federal taxes are likely still at Bush ere levels because of the recession. I think the complaining has increased latelly because there's a perceived threat of a greater attempt to redistribute those taxes (or future taxes).
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