Oliver's book: two years later

faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
edited August 2005 in Strut Central
Yeah, I know we're not supposed to post about things unrelated to transexuals--and the deletion of threads devoted to transexuals--on here, but I revisited this book earlier today and realized that it had been two years since it was published and we had discussed it on here. I have to say I think I was guilty of hatting the first time around--most of the writing is much better than I remember it being. However, I also don't remember being as annoyed by the selection of albums included as I was when flipping through it today. There's barely any southern records in there: Outkast, 2 Live Crew, Geto Boys/Scarface and Cash Money. No U.G.K and no Eightball & MJG. Also, I don't think I'd listened to any of those early-nineties Hieroglyphics albums in a few years at the point when the book was published, but having since revisited them, I definitely don't think they belong in any kind of canon of great rap albums. But I'm not trying to hate--I'd really like to hear from Oliver here. To hear how the book looks to him after two years. In particular, I'm curious as to what Oliver thinks of the selection at this point, since it appears to me that some of his ideas about rap have changed over the course of the past two years.
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  Comments


  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    umm, southern rap wasn't cool to listen to 2 years ago man

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    umm, southern rap wasn't cool to listen to 2 years ago man

    Sure it was.

    The south's been on top for about eight years now.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Sorry, I misread your part on southern rap. I have not read this book myself, but I would assume there were no UGK or Eightball and MJG entries because they simply were not as popular outside of the south as the other acts you listed. Was this book more NY or Cali-centric? And is this also the book that has the Cannibal Ox LP listed?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Sorry, I misread your part on southern rap. I have not read this book myself, but I would assume there were no UGK or Eightball and MJG entries because they simply were not as popular outside of the south as the other acts you listed. Was this book more NY or Cali-centric? And is this also the book that has the Cannibal Ox LP listed?

    Well, it's not supposed to be devoted to any particular spot on the map but, as with all such books/lists, it's pretty NYcentric. And I don't really have a problem with that since it's supposed to be a survey of great rap albums issued since the genre's inception, and New York ran rap for so many years. However, the south has dominated rap for about seven years now and U.G.K. and Eightball and MJG are two of the four main groups that really inspired the current generation of southern artists. They definitely are, and were, a lot more popular than some of the other artists that found their way into the book, although influence--rather than popularity--is the reason why I think they should have been included.

    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.

    Can someone explain what the appeal of this group is?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts


    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.

    Can someone explain what the appeal of this group is?

    You'll have to ask somebody that's actually heard them.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    They definitely are, and were, a lot more popular than some of the other artists that found their way into the book, although influence--rather than popularity--is the reason why I think they should have been included.

    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.
    More popular in the south or beyond there? And for the record, I like that Cannibal Ox LP but it definitely has no place in a book like this.

  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    umm, southern rap wasn't cool to listen to 2 years ago man

    the ego trip book had a fair amount of southern stuff and that book was like, what, 6 years ago?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    They definitely are, and were, a lot more popular than some of the other artists that found their way into the book, although influence--rather than popularity--is the reason why I think they should have been included.

    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.
    More popular in the south or beyond there? And for the record, I like that Cannibal Ox LP but it definitely has no place in a book like this.

    Well, it depends on what you mean. I'm not sure that Eightball & MJG have ever had that many fans outside of the south, but they've sold a lot more records in the south than artists like Souls of Mischief have sold in the entire world. I mean, is there any place where Souls of Mischief was ever actually what anybody would call popular?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    umm, southern rap wasn't cool to listen to 2 years ago man



    the ego trip book had a fair amount of southern stuff and that book was like, what, 6 years ago?



    They did a really good job of avoiding regional prejudice. Some of the southern albums were not placed as highly as I would now--looking back--have put them on their annual lists, but all the really important records were there.

  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    umm, southern rap wasn't cool to listen to 2 years ago man

    the ego trip book had a fair amount of southern stuff and that book was like, what, 6 years ago?

    They did a really good job of avoiding regional prejudice. Some of the southern albums were not placed as highly as I would now--looking back--have put them on their annual lists, but all the really important records were there.

    serious... back in 99, nyc dudes still held onto the notion that were center of the earth and southern stuff was junk, but they had some nice cash money/no limit stuff in that book...

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts

    Well, it's not supposed to be devoted to any particular spot on the map but, as with all such books/lists, it's pretty NYcentric. And I don't really have a problem with that since it's supposed to be a survey of great rap albums issued since the genre's inception, and New York ran rap for so many years. However, the south has dominated rap for about seven years now and U.G.K. and Eightball and MJG are two of the four main groups that really inspired the current generation of southern artists. They definitely are, and were, a lot more popular than some of the other artists that found their way into the book, although influence--rather than popularity--is the reason why I think they should have been included.

    ugk, ball and g...geto boys and who?

    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.

    cold vein is classic. bring on the hatting.

  • edpowersedpowers 4,437 Posts
    back in 99, nyc dudes still held onto the notion that were center of the earth





    are you saying things have changed in the NYC?



    prediction: 4 page thread

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    They definitely are, and were, a lot more popular than some of the other artists that found their way into the book, although influence--rather than popularity--is the reason why I think they should have been included.

    And, yeah, there is a Cannibal Ox entry.
    More popular in the south or beyond there? And for the record, I like that Cannibal Ox LP but it definitely has no place in a book like this.

    Well, it depends on what you mean. I'm not sure that Eightball & MJG have ever had that many fans outside of the south, but they've sold a lot more records in the south than artists like Souls of Mischief have sold in the entire world. I mean, is there any place where Souls of Mischief was ever actually what anybody would call popular?

    I really don't consider that book worth the read (no offense O), it was severly lopsided as to what was and was not accepted in it. It seemed more hype or album sale based than influence based. I don't have the book in front of me, but I do remember flipping through it and being amazed at alot of the albums that were in there and alot of the albums that weren't. I mean Cannibal Oxe? WTF.

  • JacobWizzleJacobWizzle 1,003 Posts
    Damn I think I have this book and I didn't even realize Cannibal Ox is listed. Don't see how anybody can defend that shit as being a better record than the first two Geto Boys albums or UGK "Ridin Dirty".

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    Damn I think I have this book and I didn't even realize Cannibal Ox is listed. Don't see how anybody can defend that shit as being a better record than the first two Geto Boys albums or UGK "Ridin Dirty".

    I seem to remember having an issue with the PE album listed and the Outkast listing??? I can't remember though. It reminded me more of someone's personal favorites list than necessarily some sort of guide.

  • JacobWizzleJacobWizzle 1,003 Posts
    Damn I think I have this book and I didn't even realize Cannibal Ox is listed. Don't see how anybody can defend that shit as being a better record than the first two Geto Boys albums or UGK "Ridin Dirty".

    I seem to remember having an issue with the PE album listed and the Outkast listing??? I can't remember though. It reminded me more of someone's personal favorites list than necessarily some sort of guide.

    I can't really be mad at PE or Outkast. Cannibal Ox is some shit that I don't understand. Not one person I know has been like "Man you gotta fuck with that Cannibal Ox". I couldn't get thru it when I attempted to listen to it.

  • DigginDiggin 319 Posts
    Damn I think I have this book and I didn't even realize Cannibal Ox is listed. Don't see how anybody can defend that shit as being a better record than the first two Geto Boys albums or UGK "Ridin Dirty".

    I seem to remember having an issue with the PE album listed and the Outkast listing??? I can't remember though. It reminded me more of someone's personal favorites list than necessarily some sort of guide.

    I can't really be mad at PE or Outkast. Cannibal Ox is some shit that I don't understand. Not one person I know has been like "Man you gotta fuck with that Cannibal Ox". I couldn't get thru it when I attempted to listen to it.

    Cannibal Ox "the f word (rjd2 remix)" is real nice in a non-def jux kind of way. But overall...


  • BeardedDBeardedD 770 Posts
    Oliver's on TV, he doesn't have time for this yesterday business

  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    Oliver's on TV, he doesn't have time for this yesterday business

    Yeah i saw that shit on CSPAN 2 on Sunday. Only caught the end of it though.

  • HAZHAZ 3,373 Posts
    Geto Boys is a must - UGK is cool. I don't think they were on the national/worldwide radar 2 years ago, despite the fact that they've been making music for a long time. Scarface's first should also be mentioned. That's one for the ages. An absolute classic. Which Outkast was listed?

    h

  • mjg? cannibal ox?


    This is why people on soulstrut should never talk about hip-hop. Ever.

  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    that double 12" that came out with C.Ox fucking sucked so bad i still have copies i cant sell... that group was on some other shit... them and coflow sucked dick in my opinion... though coflows video with the graf was pretty bangin... that song sucked though...

    just have never ever been a fan... my pennys worth

  • DocBeezyDocBeezy 1,918 Posts
    I remember one lady writer in that book wrote a piece about the Black Star album. I the piece she admitted it wasnt that solid of an LP and it was nostalgic only because of her place and time in college when it was released. I dont have the book in front of me, so I cant quote it. But it is something along those lines. Seems a skootch on the biased side to me.

  • funcrusher is a good album if for no other reason than it was completely diff than anything else, i recall some of yall liking dizzee rascal .

  • noznoz 3,625 Posts
    UGK is cool. I don't think they were on the national B>NORTH EAST/B>/worldwide radar 2 years ago, despite the fact that they've been making music for a long time.



    i'll refrain from badmouthing oliver's book because i haven't read it. could someone post a list of albums covered?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Geto Boys is a must - UGK is cool. I don't think they were on the national/worldwide radar 2 years ago, despite the fact that they've been making music for a long time. Scarface's first should also be mentioned. That's one for the ages. An absolute classic. Which Outkast was listed?

    h

    To be clear, both Scarface and the Geto Boys are mentioned--there's a combined entry for, I think, Grip It... and Mr. Scarface is Back.

    What I was saying above is that that is one of only four entries devoted to southern artists, the others being 2 Live Crew, Outkast and Cash Money.


  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    funcrusher is a good album if for no other reason than it was completely diff than anything else, i recall some of yall liking dizzee rascal .

    no funcrusher was dumb too... though their vinyl 12s were right with clear jacket and that ill artwork on the 2nd one.

    they were still wack though... that was some supreme backpack shit to me like anticon... some of those anticon kids are homies but that sound makes me want to stop listenting to rap music... and living legends... foul. that shits mad cornball to me...

    and i just want to make sure yall know that im not one of the suspects that was jerking off that teabag rascal... i dont like that dude either...

  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    didn't Mr Dub just come out in favor of banning 'fag', 'bitch', 'nigga' etc on this board?

    Not the most auspicious credential for giving a fair shake to foul gansta raps...

    ---

  • HAZHAZ 3,373 Posts

    I like Funcrusher Plus & Can Ox, but I also like Downtown Science. I don't think any of those albums deserve mention among the best ever. One thing I'll say for Can Ox: They brought back the noise. Their production reminded me of some Bomb Squad ish. I don't think they were that dope as Emcees.

    Peace

    h
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