asshole. damn shame no one in his family tried to keep him from getting a gun in his hand.
sarah palin's an asshole too.
my more paranoid side tells me that dems who show some spine might be the new abortion-doctors-style target for fringe lunatics. radio and asshole psuedo politicians like pain definitely do their part to make it seem like obabma's pulling the carpet out from under life liberty and freedom.
pol??i??tic
???adjective
1.shrewd or prudent in practical matters; tactful; diplomatic.
During the fall campaign, Sarah Palin, the former Republican vice-presidential candidate, posted a controversial map on her Facebook page depicting spots where Democrats were running for re-election; those Democrats were noted by crosshairs symbols like those seen through the scope of a gun. Ms. Giffords was among those on Ms. Palin???s map, which later removed the crosshairs symbols.
A statement posted on Ms. Palin???s Facebook page Saturday expressed her ???sincere condolences??? to the family of Ms. Giffords and the other shooting victims. Ms. Palin said that she and her family were praying for them ???and for peace and justice.???
i'm watching c-span who's doing a live feed from the local news stations.
they're doing a Q&A conference with various folks ranging from politicians, authorities, and other people of tucson. a doctor who was tending to her said that she was shot in the head. the bullet passed through her head, penetrating her brain.
i hope she pulls through, as well as the rest of those who were shot and affected by all this. rest in peace to the child who perished.
Giffords's assailant was last night named as a 22-year-old Afghanistan veteran Jared Lee Loughner. He was described by witnesses as a young white man who looked like a "fringe character", clean shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing.
The shooting happened shortly after 10am local time outside a Safeway store in Tucson. Loughner ran up and opened fire on Giffords while she was talking to a couple.
Witnesses said that the gunman ran into a "crowded area" and began "firing indiscriminately". Andrea Gooden, who was working across the road from the scene, said: "I heard about 15 shots. Then there were people racing across the parking lot."
Another witness, Steven Rayle, who helped restrain Loughner , said: "The event was very informal. Giffords had set up a table outside the Safeway and about 20 or 30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman, who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Giffords in the head first."
Jason Pekau, an employee at a shop close to today's shooting, said two bodies were covered on the pavement after emergency services had arrived at the scene.
Only when Loughner ran out of ammunition did he attempt to flee. One of Giffords's aides tackled the assailant and pinned him down until police arrived.
How does someone like Loughner get in to the army, serve in Afghanistan, and then return home without flags being raised about the state of his mental health?
7:46 P.M. |Army Says Suspect Tried, Failed to Join
A statement by the Army issued just now says that the suspect in the Arizona shooting had tried to enlist but was rejected for an unspecified reason. Here is the statement:
"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
7:46 P.M. |Army Says Suspect Tried, Failed to Join
A statement by the Army issued just now says that the suspect in the Arizona shooting had tried to enlist but was rejected for an unspecified reason. Here is the statement:
"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
The misinformation from all sides of this issue that is coming from credible media sources is pretty wild (from medical misinformation about the death of Giffords to incorrect reports of Loughner's role in the Army).
without flags being raised about the state of his mental health?
In this country it is very hard to force someone to get mental health care.
Ask anyone on this board who has a friend or family member suffering from mental illness.
Even if someone is interested in getting help there are many barriers.
Cost, availability and stigma are some.
The VA system has excellent mental health care.
Sadly, they are overloaded and the wait for beds or appoints is long.
Not that it pertains in this instance.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
"It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
He later added:
DUPNIK: Let me just say one thing, because people tend to poo-poo this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech. But it's not without consequences.
REPORTER: How do you know that that's what caused it.
DUPNIK: You don't.
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
"It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
He later added:
DUPNIK: Let me just say one thing, because people tend to poo-poo this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech. But it's not without consequences.
REPORTER: How do you know that that's what caused it.
DUPNIK: You don't.
wow. hats off to a good man. many in his position wouldnt say shit
whole thing is really sad, even if that congresswoman makes it the damage caused by the bullet is most likely irreparable
when will Americans understand ? as long as they'll let 200+ millions firearms circulating in their country stuff like this is going to happen again and again and again
It's still way too early to speculate, but I doubt this guy is anything more than a nutcase. Take a look at the books he listed as his favorites: Mein kampf, Communist Manifesto, Faren. 451, Ayn Rand. There's no clear ideology there. Just because he mentioned the gold standard in one of his youtube posts, doesn't make him some crazy Tea Partier charged up by right wing talk radio.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
It's still way too early to speculate....I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
"false equivalency" is one those weasel phrases msnbc uses to defend its shoddy record. what does this phrase mean "pointless middle"?
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
"false equivalency" is one those weasel phrases msnbc uses to defend its shoddy record.
Speaking of shoddy records, why don't you go back to stalking Bob Desperado.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
"false equivalency" is one those weasel phrases msnbc uses to defend its shoddy record.
Speaking of shoddy records, why don't you go back to stalking Bob Desperado.
Cite Olbermann inciting violence or step off.
amongst other things, he calls people the worst in the world on a daily basis. his rhetoric is over-heated, partisan, provocative and reckless. also, why would you try to personalize this issue?
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
"false equivalency" is one those weasel phrases msnbc uses to defend its shoddy record.
Speaking of shoddy records, why don't you go back to stalking Bob Desperado.
Cite Olbermann inciting violence or step off.
amongst other things, he calls people the worst in the world on a daily basis. his rhetoric is over-heated, partisan, provocative and reckless. also, why would you try to personalize this issue?
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
Yeah. He went off last night, but within a half hour of the news breaking, CNN had a local Tucson journalist (a political cartoonist, no less) on via telephone, ranting about how the "right" had created the environment of hatred in Arizona. Markos Moulitsas and Paul Krugman were on twitter immediatly afterwards, blaming Palin and Beck.
I might be a touch paranoid, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the gov't used this event as the impetus to move in and regulate (censor) the media.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
Absolutely. The most gutless and ignorant move in America today is to pretend that the rhetoric is equally loaded on the left and the right.
Some leftist somewhere said Bush was Hitler once, so that's totally the same as Sarah Palin saying Obama is a socialist who's "hellbent on destroying America"! Yeah, okay. Makes complete sense!
"Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged shooter of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others on Saturday, may have ties to anti-Semitic, anti-immigration hate group American Renaissance, according to a leaked memo from the Department of Homeland Security.
It's unclear whether Loughner maintains a direct connection to the group, however, "strong suspicion is being directed" at American Renaissance in the wake of the group being referenced in Loughner's Myspace and YouTube videos, according to the memo, which was obtained by Fox News.
American Renaissance is a white nationalist group that operates under a pseudo think tank called the New Century Foundation. The group runs a magazine and conferences based on eugenics and the superiority of whites, according to Southern Poverty Law Center.
The group considers its members to be "racial-realists," according to an "About Us" section on the American Renaissance magazine website. "Attempts to gloss over the significance of race or even to deny its reality only make problems worse," the group writes. "Progress requires the study of all aspects of race, whether historical, cultural, or biological. This approach is known as race realism."
The pseudo-science in the magazine refers to biological superiority of whites, with titles such as "Swine Flu: Is There a Racial Link?" and "Ignoring Biological Reality Means Social and Economic Catastrophe." After President Barack Obama was elected in 2008, the magazine ran a feature called "Transition to Black Rule?"
American Renaissance is opposed to the entry of non-whites into the United States and supports Arizona's SB 1070 immigration law, which was criticized as racist and challenged by the Obama Justice Department. In an introduction to readers when the magazine was started in 1990, the publication wrote that "blacks and Hispanics are, compared to whites, far more likely to be poor, illiterate, on welfare, or in jail; they are far more likely to have illegitimate children, be addicted to drugs, or have AIDS. By no definition of international competitiveness can the presence of these populations be anything but a disadvantage."
The group's connection to anti-Semitism is slightly more complicated. Although Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis are often present at New Century Foundation conferences, group founder Jared Taylor cracked down on anti-Semitic speech in the magazine and at events, according to Southern Poverty Law Center. But after an anti-Semitic outburst at the 2006 conference, the group lost some of its Jewish supporters.
Although the motivations behind Saturday's actions remain unclear, Jewish media organizations pointed to possibly anti-Semitism after Hitler's Mein Kampf was listed as one of Loughner's favorite books. Giffords is the first Jewish U.S. representative to be elected in Arizona. Gabe Zimmerman, a Giffords aide who was killed in the shooting, was also Jewish.
On immigration, Giffords holds Blue Dog views: She supports comprehensive immigration reform, including increased border security and a path to legal status for some of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants already in the United States. Giffords voted in December for the DREAM Act, a bill that would allow undocumented immigrants who entered the country as children, to exchange in return for military service or attending college.
Although she opposes Arizona law SB 1070, Giffords also opposed the Justice Department's lawsuit against the state to stop the law. "Congresswoman Giffords wants more federal agents on the Arizona border, not federal lawyers in court arguing with state lawyers about a law that will do nothing to increase public safety in the communities she represents," her spokesman told The Hill in June.
Giffords is mentioned several times on the American Renaissance website, but only in comments and articles from other news outlets on SB 1070 and the 2010 midterm elections."
Yeah. He went off last night, but within a half hour of the news breaking, CNN had a local Tucson journalist (a political cartoonist, no less) on via telephone, ranting about how the "right" had created the environment of hatred in Arizona.
Does it even matter if there IS an "environment of hatred in Arizona"? Or is that a minor consideration not worth talking about?
Just to be clear, I'm not letting right wing talk radio off the hook. I'm just saying that we currently know very little about the shooter. Congressional maps with cross hairs and "vitrolic" radio hosts might not have even been on this guy's radar.
Comments
sarah palin's an asshole too.
my more paranoid side tells me that dems who show some spine might be the new abortion-doctors-style target for fringe lunatics. radio and asshole psuedo politicians like pain definitely do their part to make it seem like obabma's pulling the carpet out from under life liberty and freedom.
pol??i??tic
???adjective
1.shrewd or prudent in practical matters; tactful; diplomatic.
i really really hope GG pulls through.
9 year old?!? a fuckin federal judge?? this is just absolutely disgusting
One of the lowest points in America in years.
they're doing a Q&A conference with various folks ranging from politicians, authorities, and other people of tucson. a doctor who was tending to her said that she was shot in the head. the bullet passed through her head, penetrating her brain.
i hope she pulls through, as well as the rest of those who were shot and affected by all this. rest in peace to the child who perished.
How does someone like Loughner get in to the army, serve in Afghanistan, and then return home without flags being raised about the state of his mental health?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/live-blog-representative-giffords-shot/#army-says-suspect-tried-failed-to-join
The misinformation from all sides of this issue that is coming from credible media sources is pretty wild (from medical misinformation about the death of Giffords to incorrect reports of Loughner's role in the Army).
In this country it is very hard to force someone to get mental health care.
Ask anyone on this board who has a friend or family member suffering from mental illness.
Even if someone is interested in getting help there are many barriers.
Cost, availability and stigma are some.
The VA system has excellent mental health care.
Sadly, they are overloaded and the wait for beds or appoints is long.
Not that it pertains in this instance.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html
Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, speaking about Arizona:
"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And, unfortunately, Arizona I think has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
"It's not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. And that's the sad thing of what's going on in America. Pretty soon, we're not going to be able to find reasonable, decent people who are willing to subject themselves to serve in public office."
He later added:
DUPNIK: Let me just say one thing, because people tend to poo-poo this business about all the vitriol that we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech. But it's not without consequences.
REPORTER: How do you know that that's what caused it.
DUPNIK: You don't.
wow. hats off to a good man. many in his position wouldnt say shit
when will Americans understand ? as long as they'll let 200+ millions firearms circulating in their country stuff like this is going to happen again and again and again
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
It's still way too early to speculate, but I doubt this guy is anything more than a nutcase. Take a look at the books he listed as his favorites: Mein kampf, Communist Manifesto, Faren. 451, Ayn Rand. There's no clear ideology there. Just because he mentioned the gold standard in one of his youtube posts, doesn't make him some crazy Tea Partier charged up by right wing talk radio.
I personally find it troubling that it took less than thirty minutes after this atrocity took place for the fingerpointing and political scapegoating to ensue.
trenchant.
olbermann was one of the first out of the gates with his obnoxious, partisan framing of the issue. he is the last guy that should be talking about tamping down rhetoric.
I know it's popular for folks nestled in the pointless middle to shit on Olbermann, but that's some bullshit false equivalency right there.
"false equivalency" is one those weasel phrases msnbc uses to defend its shoddy record. what does this phrase mean "pointless middle"?
Speaking of shoddy records, why don't you go back to stalking Bob Desperado.
Cite Olbermann inciting violence or step off.
amongst other things, he calls people the worst in the world on a daily basis. his rhetoric is over-heated, partisan, provocative and reckless. also, why would you try to personalize this issue?
And that's an incitement to violence?
Yeah. He went off last night, but within a half hour of the news breaking, CNN had a local Tucson journalist (a political cartoonist, no less) on via telephone, ranting about how the "right" had created the environment of hatred in Arizona. Markos Moulitsas and Paul Krugman were on twitter immediatly afterwards, blaming Palin and Beck.
I might be a touch paranoid, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the gov't used this event as the impetus to move in and regulate (censor) the media.
Absolutely. The most gutless and ignorant move in America today is to pretend that the rhetoric is equally loaded on the left and the right.
Some leftist somewhere said Bush was Hitler once, so that's totally the same as Sarah Palin saying Obama is a socialist who's "hellbent on destroying America"! Yeah, okay. Makes complete sense!
If you're an idiot.
It's unclear whether Loughner maintains a direct connection to the group, however, "strong suspicion is being directed" at American Renaissance in the wake of the group being referenced in Loughner's Myspace and YouTube videos, according to the memo, which was obtained by Fox News.
American Renaissance is a white nationalist group that operates under a pseudo think tank called the New Century Foundation. The group runs a magazine and conferences based on eugenics and the superiority of whites, according to Southern Poverty Law Center.
The group considers its members to be "racial-realists," according to an "About Us" section on the American Renaissance magazine website. "Attempts to gloss over the significance of race or even to deny its reality only make problems worse," the group writes. "Progress requires the study of all aspects of race, whether historical, cultural, or biological. This approach is known as race realism."
The pseudo-science in the magazine refers to biological superiority of whites, with titles such as "Swine Flu: Is There a Racial Link?" and "Ignoring Biological Reality Means Social and Economic Catastrophe." After President Barack Obama was elected in 2008, the magazine ran a feature called "Transition to Black Rule?"
American Renaissance is opposed to the entry of non-whites into the United States and supports Arizona's SB 1070 immigration law, which was criticized as racist and challenged by the Obama Justice Department. In an introduction to readers when the magazine was started in 1990, the publication wrote that "blacks and Hispanics are, compared to whites, far more likely to be poor, illiterate, on welfare, or in jail; they are far more likely to have illegitimate children, be addicted to drugs, or have AIDS. By no definition of international competitiveness can the presence of these populations be anything but a disadvantage."
The group's connection to anti-Semitism is slightly more complicated. Although Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis are often present at New Century Foundation conferences, group founder Jared Taylor cracked down on anti-Semitic speech in the magazine and at events, according to Southern Poverty Law Center. But after an anti-Semitic outburst at the 2006 conference, the group lost some of its Jewish supporters.
Although the motivations behind Saturday's actions remain unclear, Jewish media organizations pointed to possibly anti-Semitism after Hitler's Mein Kampf was listed as one of Loughner's favorite books. Giffords is the first Jewish U.S. representative to be elected in Arizona. Gabe Zimmerman, a Giffords aide who was killed in the shooting, was also Jewish.
On immigration, Giffords holds Blue Dog views: She supports comprehensive immigration reform, including increased border security and a path to legal status for some of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants already in the United States. Giffords voted in December for the DREAM Act, a bill that would allow undocumented immigrants who entered the country as children, to exchange in return for military service or attending college.
Although she opposes Arizona law SB 1070, Giffords also opposed the Justice Department's lawsuit against the state to stop the law. "Congresswoman Giffords wants more federal agents on the Arizona border, not federal lawyers in court arguing with state lawyers about a law that will do nothing to increase public safety in the communities she represents," her spokesman told The Hill in June.
Giffords is mentioned several times on the American Renaissance website, but only in comments and articles from other news outlets on SB 1070 and the 2010 midterm elections."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-youtube-videos-_n_806370.html
Does it even matter if there IS an "environment of hatred in Arizona"? Or is that a minor consideration not worth talking about?