If Curtis gets "Untouchable" status, I'd consider him on an "experimental" level
Really?
I guess it depends on what you mean by experimental. I don't think Curtis was avant garde but I see him as constantly pushing directions in soul music that weren't just about refinement of existing styles. But I don't think he had as broad a vision as Stevie.
The heavy Psych element to "Check Out Your Mind" when his fans probably just wanted more sweet soul singing, Bobby Franklins Insanity, 'If Theres A Hell..." alot of his stuff went beyond sweet soul and funk, some of it was "Out There".
I think that was why he left the Impressions, because he had some things he wanted to say that he felt weren't right within the Impressions' context. As far as progressive soul goes, Curtis made that transition a year before Stevie did. When Curtis' first solo album dropped, Stevie was still wearing ruffled suits onstage and singing mainstream pop tunes in supperclubs.
Not to take away from Stevie, but Curtis went there first, as far as experimentation.
(BTW, I didn't think Bobby Franklin's Insanity had any Curtis involvement at all, apart from recording for his label.)
Stevie had plenty of by the numbers stuff. Curtis, I tend to see as an inside the box type of experimenter. Sly, well I do consider him partially an experimental artist I can't really put into words why. Something to do with drum machines probably...
btw if Curtis is on that list, you can never deny Kool & The Gang a spot.
Kool & The Gang > Curtis Mayfield
Really?? I'd take every Curtis Mayfield album pre-1980 over almost any Kool & The Gang album. (maybe the 1980s pass goes without saying as every artist on this list (James Brown, Aretha, Stevie, even Marvin Gaye) released some sub-par content in the 1980s, as did Kool & the Gang). This does not even begin to deal with the Impressions and the other Chicago soul groups Curtis produced throughout the 1960s. I admit to being biased on this topic, as I'm a Curtisologist for life, but...Kool & the Gang has nothing on Curtis Mayfield.
Curtis = untouchable. Kool & the Gang = largely one-note. A damn good note, especially in the early 70s, but still.
JROOTS.
Fair enough. I love Curtis, dont get me wrong - there's no point really in comparing the two - but early 70's K&TG;?
I rate Aretha high.
I Never Loved a Man is a deserted island record for me, YG&B is a thing of beauty.
Her early early gospel years are unfukwitable and, save for a few turds, her Atlantic years are solid.
BUT, things get real shaky post YG&B. And her waning live performance in recent years is no help.
I worry that her present is going to outdo her past and make her very touchable.
(maybe the 1980s pass goes without saying as every artist on this list (James Brown, Aretha, Stevie, even Marvin Gaye) released some sub-par content in the 1980s, as did Kool & the Gang).
This and Prince raise the question - are late-career fall-offs to be expected and don't contribute to whether someone is untouchable?
Or is the question really whether an artists prime output is untouchable?
In the case of Prince, from 1990 and onwards his material got weaker, but you could (should imho) still go see his live shows. These are on another level, most of the time much much better than the 'recorded' material. Especially when he contracted Larry Graham and Maceo Parker. Listen to the One Night Alone aftershow.
I'd say Curtis' Superfly is (and still to this day) "Progressive" Soul.
Who was embodying a drug dealer (in that era) and not executing it a cartoonish fashion?
Maybe Marvin Gaye's What's Goin On was a precursor w/ Marvin admitting to his addictions, but that's not on the same level as Curtis as Priest/Ron O'Neal.
Gil Scott Maybe.....?
Hip Hop pretty much built a whole style from that perspective.
Trouble Man and Shaft are pretty much Dudley-Do-Right Brothers.
Mayfield's soundtrack is to me the invisible glue to that movie.
Comments
I think that was why he left the Impressions, because he had some things he wanted to say that he felt weren't right within the Impressions' context. As far as progressive soul goes, Curtis made that transition a year before Stevie did. When Curtis' first solo album dropped, Stevie was still wearing ruffled suits onstage and singing mainstream pop tunes in supperclubs.
Not to take away from Stevie, but Curtis went there first, as far as experimentation.
(BTW, I didn't think Bobby Franklin's Insanity had any Curtis involvement at all, apart from recording for his label.)
I'm just saying: don't fixate on the debate aspect and think on who gets a lifetime pass.
Al Green?
No.
Stevie had plenty of by the numbers stuff. Curtis, I tend to see as an inside the box type of experimenter. Sly, well I do consider him partially an experimental artist I can't really put into words why. Something to do with drum machines probably...
Any hate anywhere for Lewis Jordan?
Fair enough. I love Curtis, dont get me wrong - there's no point really in comparing the two - but early 70's K&TG;?
If you want to go pound for pound with the JAMS??
Untouchable.
etc. etc. etc.
(Great Output - 5) - Suspect Output / Total Output = Untouchable #
*Output is defined as individual songs.
**The minus 5 songs accounts for 1, 2, 3... hit wonders.
Gil Scott-Heron
Many--including me--will hate on his electric period
Ha! I'm not mad at this but I want to see you actually apply this.
.private mind arboretum>
45 king
Lord Finesse
Paul C
Fela
George Clinton
./private mind arboretum>
I Never Loved a Man is a deserted island record for me, YG&B is a thing of beauty.
Her early early gospel years are unfukwitable and, save for a few turds, her Atlantic years are solid.
BUT, things get real shaky post YG&B. And her waning live performance in recent years is no help.
I worry that her present is going to outdo her past and make her very touchable.
In the case of Prince, from 1990 and onwards his material got weaker, but you could (should imho) still go see his live shows. These are on another level, most of the time much much better than the 'recorded' material. Especially when he contracted Larry Graham and Maceo Parker. Listen to the One Night Alone aftershow.
-----------------
Speaking about Syl (I think someone brought him up earlier in the thread)...
Who's got a box coming???
Monty
Leo
Who was embodying a drug dealer (in that era) and not executing it a cartoonish fashion?
Maybe Marvin Gaye's What's Goin On was a precursor w/ Marvin admitting to his addictions, but that's not on the same level as Curtis as Priest/Ron O'Neal.
Gil Scott Maybe.....?
Hip Hop pretty much built a whole style from that perspective.
Trouble Man and Shaft are pretty much Dudley-Do-Right Brothers.
Mayfield's soundtrack is to me the invisible glue to that movie.
b/w
Pee Wee Kirkland