I attended yesterday's game. Zito threw 65 pitches in three innings, his last pitch actually walking the SD PITCHER. man. 65 pitches in 3 innings. wtf.
I attended yesterday's game. Zito threw 65 pitches in three innings, his last pitch actually walking the SD PITCHER. man. 65 pitches in 3 innings. wtf.
zito's a $126MM waste, and the last remaining sign of the "sabean is not in control of all his mental faculties" era. i can't stand that dude's contract is used as justification for having him throw in big games. hopefully, he's coming out of the pen through the post-season-- if he plays at all.
his "you can't put the season all on one man's shoulders" crap is a total cop-out too, especially when another pitcher goes out and does that very thing the following day.
that said, sanchez (of the johnathan persuasion) has been on some beast shit lately, and i'm glad he got to personally be responsible for keeping the madres out of the playoffs. now if bochy can open up the game a bit, trust his hitters a bit more and come down with an iron fist on his starters when they start screwing up, the gigantes might have a chance.
(lesson learned: we all know the A's are the farm league of the majors, so when they are ACTIVELY trying to get rid of someone, as opposed to at least putting in an attempt to sign that player, teams would be well advised to steer clear.)
(lesson learned: we all know the A's are the farm league of the majors, so when they are ACTIVELY trying to get rid of someone, as opposed to at least putting in an attempt to sign that player, teams would be well advised to steer clear.)
haha I hear you man but you can't honestly believe that Oakland *knew* he could no longer throw? I mean, when he left them he had what fools were saying was among the best curveballs they'd ever seen. Remember 2006? He made the All-Star team that year. It was 4 years ago and seems like 20. Dude can no longer throw his curveball; that's all there is to it. And no one seems to be able to figure out why. I think 126 was too much to pay for ANY pitcher, but I don't blame Sabean for not realizing how dude was gonna turn out for us. $2M a win though. oof.
in other news Sanchez is indeed a beast, and did you see Romo's inning? Fire. And dude MOTA had beautiful innings both Friday and Saturday. our pitching is just sick.
Zito should be left off the Giants??? NLDS roster, plain and simple
POSTED BY TIM KAWAKAMI ON OCTOBER 5TH, 2010 AT 5:49 PM | CATEGORIZED AS BASEBALL, GIANTS
Should Barry Zito get a start in the Giants??? NLDS match-up against the Braves? That???s an easy question, with a easy answer: Not a chance.
Sounds like Bruce Bochy???based on his KNBR interview this morning and many hours of quiet Giants non-denial since then???has all but decided that issue, and wisely.
Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain and Jonathan Sanchez in Games 1, 2 and 3.
Then Bochy said it would be either Madison Bumgarner or Lincecum on three days??? rest in Game 4.
(I???m not there, but according to reporters in attendance, just now at his AT&T Park press conference, Bochy said he???s also considering Zito for the Game 4 start.
(I???d guess that???s mostly a way to keep things open between now and Thursday morning, when the rosters have to be set for the series, and that Zito is not a serious option.)
No Zito starting. Makes 100% sense.
You knew that, at least publicly, Bochy and Brian Sabean probably would hesitate on this one a little bit, because they???ve defended Zito from criticism for so long, and because the Giants owe Zito so much more money (two years plus an option, about $60M), and because they???ve touted him as a veteran leader so constantly.
But Bochy gave a hint over the weekend when he properly avoided criticizing the home-plate ump after Zito???s walk-walk shenanigans.
The time for excuses is over. It was useless to make excuses for him before, but now it???s just wrong.
And I???ll give the Giants??? brass credit for doing what???s necessary with Zito in the NLDS, presuming they carry out the plan to keep him out of the rotation.
The Giants have given away a lot of games by keeping with Zito all these years, including Saturday vs. the Padres, but this is the playoffs and they can???t give away games by forcing Zito out there now.
Quick stats:
-The Giants went 1-8 in Zito???s last nine starts, dating to his Aug. 17 loss against the Phillies.
-In the games he didn???t start over that period, the Giants were 24-10.
-Zito had a 6.75 ERA in those nine games.
-The other four starters had a cumulative 2.64 ERA over that period.
They all pitched more innings, they all had a better ERAs, and they all were well above .500 in their post=Aug. 17 starts.
Bumgarner: 3-2 record, 2.64 ERA, 47 2/3 innings in eight starts, with the Giants going 5-3 in those games.
Sanchez: 5-1 record, 1.77 ERA, 56 innings in nine starts, with the Giants going 7-2 in those games.
Lincecum: 5-3 record, 2.89 ERA, 53 innings in eight starts, with the Giants going 5-3.
Cain: 4-2 record, 3.23 ERA, 61 1/3 innings in nine starts, with the Giants going 7-2 in those games.
Zito: 1-7 record, 6.75 ERA, 41 1/3 innings in nine starts, with the Giants going 1-8 in those games.
The next question is more complicated, and I had to roll it around in my head for a little while:
* If Zito???s not starting Game 4, should he be on the NLDS roster at all?
Bochy has repeatedly said the Giants will carry 11 pitchers, so the Zito decision is pretty clear.
Either Zito or:
-Guillermo Mota, another power bullpen arm that Bochy trusts.
-Or Dan Runzler, another power lefty bullpen arm, to give Bochy the luxury of three lefties in the pen (added to Affledt and Lopez).
The argument for keeping Zito off the NLDS roster:
-He???s not a reliever and is such a creature of habit that, if asked to provide innings in long relief, probably would be even worse at that than he is at starting these days.
-The Giants, like all teams, could always use another reliable live arm ready to go, whether it???s in the 5th, 6th or 13th innings of a playoff game, and that???s not Zito, is it?
But there is also an argument for keeping Zito on the roster, which is two-fold:
1. It???s probably not that important a roster spot, as far as those go.
The Giants are so totally based on their starting pitching, if they get to the point where they need a fifth or sixth reliever at any point, the cause might already have been lost.
2. The Giants might need to keep Zito around and relatively sharp (at least for Round 2) if Sanchez or Bumgarner flame out.
Zito might not be needed for the best-of-five Round 1, but in the next series, which would be best-of-seven, if one of the other starters goes haywire, you might want Zito jumping in at some point.
And you???d want him mentally tuned-in all the way throughout, instead of feeling like he was dumped in the NLDS, only to be summoned back in the NLCS.
Like I said, this is the more complicated question. I???ve had to think about this one for a while, as I???m sure Giants execs, cocahes and fans have, ever since the clinching on Sunday.
And I think, just because of the possibility of extra-innings given the Giants and Braves??? solid pitching and not-as-great hitting??? I???d want to make sure I have every live and dependable arm possible.
To me, that means Mota. Not Zito.
The money means something symbolically to the Giants, because it???d be slightly embarrassing to have one of the highest-paid players in the game sitting there, healthy, out of play in postseason.
But it doesn???t mean as much as winning games, and advancing, and actually being good.
(FYI, I think Aaron Rowand, the Giants??? second-highest paid player, makes the roster, too, just by virtue of his right-handed power off the bench???that Friday HR vs. the Padres probably got him the spot over either Nate Schierholtz or Travis Ishikawa.
(Edgar Renteria, the third-highest paid, probably makes it as insurance at shortstop. Pretty amazing that the Giants got to the playoffs, and look to be dangerous there, without much at all from their top-three paid players, who made $40M this season and all theoretically could be kept off the NLDS roster without much of a debate.
yeah it's insane that our TWO highest players on the roster BOTH SUCK. like really, really suck. if this fact is not sufficient to bring about someone's firing, I can't think of what would be.
yeah our offense is scary....to me. Meaning Im scared we can't score any fusking points.
but man I was in the bleachers last night and we all assumed there were gonna put in Wilson as he had been warming up and Timmy was in his jacket at the end of the 8th. when dude took the mound in the 9th? pretty amazing feeling in that stadium.
this article contains savagely blunderous examples of logic. 2 hits and a walk yeilds a lower era than no hits and a walk? not in the real world. this is like someone describing a place they've never been. no hitter > two hitter ALWAYS.
Man those Rangers REALLY fell apart last night. Fucking Yankees beisbol, dudes. Nothing like it.
Tonight is the big NLCS with Phillies Vs Giants. Tonight's matchup Lincecum Vs Halladay is going to be epic, but other than tonight I don't really see SF taking this, sorry dudes.
Is 2010 the year Philly takes its revenge against The Evil Empire?
Yeah great game. I really hope J-Roll wakes up but I'm still not concerned about this series. And yeah Lincecum is really a beast and that was a really great matchup to watch.
mannybolone said:
P.S. Cody Ross + Le Freak > Mr. No-Hitter on this particular night
getting old for a SS, slow start to the year then finally got white hot but got injured. they played it safe w/ his hamstring recovery, which was smart, but that means he didn't see enough pitches to get back into his groove.
Comments
zito's a $126MM waste, and the last remaining sign of the "sabean is not in control of all his mental faculties" era. i can't stand that dude's contract is used as justification for having him throw in big games. hopefully, he's coming out of the pen through the post-season-- if he plays at all.
his "you can't put the season all on one man's shoulders" crap is a total cop-out too, especially when another pitcher goes out and does that very thing the following day.
that said, sanchez (of the johnathan persuasion) has been on some beast shit lately, and i'm glad he got to personally be responsible for keeping the madres out of the playoffs. now if bochy can open up the game a bit, trust his hitters a bit more and come down with an iron fist on his starters when they start screwing up, the gigantes might have a chance.
(lesson learned: we all know the A's are the farm league of the majors, so when they are ACTIVELY trying to get rid of someone, as opposed to at least putting in an attempt to sign that player, teams would be well advised to steer clear.)
haha I hear you man but you can't honestly believe that Oakland *knew* he could no longer throw? I mean, when he left them he had what fools were saying was among the best curveballs they'd ever seen. Remember 2006? He made the All-Star team that year. It was 4 years ago and seems like 20. Dude can no longer throw his curveball; that's all there is to it. And no one seems to be able to figure out why. I think 126 was too much to pay for ANY pitcher, but I don't blame Sabean for not realizing how dude was gonna turn out for us. $2M a win though. oof.
in other news Sanchez is indeed a beast, and did you see Romo's inning? Fire. And dude MOTA had beautiful innings both Friday and Saturday. our pitching is just sick.
For stat and payroll giants nerds
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/10/05/zito-should-be-left-off-the-giants-nlds-roster-plain-and-simple/
Pinoy power!
That was an ill game but the Giants could barely score even with the help of a terrible call. I'll take the W, but I'm saying though
but man I was in the bleachers last night and we all assumed there were gonna put in Wilson as he had been warming up and Timmy was in his jacket at the end of the 8th. when dude took the mound in the 9th? pretty amazing feeling in that stadium.
as far as not being a no-hitter, I'd agree with this dude and say that they are at least comparable performances.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/keeping-score-was-lincecums-gem-more-brilliant-than-halladays/
this article contains savagely blunderous examples of logic. 2 hits and a walk yeilds a lower era than no hits and a walk? not in the real world. this is like someone describing a place they've never been. no hitter > two hitter ALWAYS.
Quarter. Still claimable
I am hungover as isht.
It's a general consensus that the Phillies are going to wipe the floor with the Giants, but there's always a chance. In the meantime,
BRING. IT. ON.
There will be profanity
I thought the Rangers winning a playoff series was against MLB rules.
Man those Rangers REALLY fell apart last night. Fucking Yankees beisbol, dudes. Nothing like it.
Tonight is the big NLCS with Phillies Vs Giants. Tonight's matchup Lincecum Vs Halladay is going to be epic, but other than tonight I don't really see SF taking this, sorry dudes.
Is 2010 the year Philly takes its revenge against The Evil Empire?
also:
I don't see the Rangers making it, sorry Texas. You've still got Jerrah at least. And the Mavs look good.
4 Flavors...
Oh man, that 's hilarious!
That was a crushing defeat last night, I'll be surprised if the Rangers recover.
Now, Phillies VS Giants - Let's go! Who you got?
Please don't put the champagne on ice just yet.
Signed,
The Giants
P.S. Cody Ross + Le Freak > Mr. No-Hitter on this particular night
our long-haired dude bested their long-haired dude. werth is still nasty though.
as always Wilson had me scared shitless in the end, but ultimately delivered the goods.
Hah dude, what planet are you from?
Yo, what happened to this guy? (Sorry, disconnected from NL.)
i wouldn't count Rollins out.