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Ebay problem - advice sought

tabiratabira 856 Posts
edited April 2010 in Strut Central
Dear Stutters what would you do..Sold a second issue copy of Tribe "Message from the Tribe" in Mint condition. Buyer now complains that the serial number of the vinyl inside corresponds to the first issue and not to the second. His argument is that first issues are less value than second issues cos the sound quality is less good. That's the first time I've ever heard of a seller getting stung for selling an original as a second issue. Am I being taken for a ride or does he have a point?thanks in advance
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  Comments

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    That's kinda sucky. I would think to complain about such a bizarre pt, it has to have some foundation in truth though.
  • triptoyourmindtriptoyourmind 294 Posts
    I've never heard of anything like that before - maybe ask him for some evidence to prove his point?
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    I did and here's his freaky "evidence":

    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    Now I thought that I was a bit nerdy keeping just one spare copy for my favourite top 3 LPs, but this guy takes it to a new level. I just wanted to reply - WTF are you doing buying more copies anyway? Do you give each one name? Do you talk to them? Isn't 13 enough!! Life is short, just get laid and don't worry about it! - But i'm under the gun of a neg feedback so I have to tread carefully. I'm prepared to take the neg though if he's not being reasonable. It'll be my first.
  • triptoyourmindtriptoyourmind 294 Posts
    sounds like the worst kind of collectro. Maybe you should just plead ignorance.
  • kicks79kicks79 1,343 Posts
    Just offer him a partial refund to avoid the neg feedback
  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    I cant get past this...why?......wow....for some reason I think the buyer is lying..or is sick there's no reason to have 13 copies. Have this fool youtube himself demonstrating his point...show both copies, play both copies...LOL
  • RishanRishan 454 Posts
    what a total fist. i can understand having 2 copies of your favourite records, i do it myself sometimes and i'm not even a dj. but this hoarding is disgusting behaviour and preventing others from enjoying the record. i don't care if this guy has OCD, i would take the neg and tell him to go F*ck himself with a splintery plank. classic example of why i don't use ebay anymore
  • MoSSMoSS 458 Posts
    I did and here's his freaky "evidence":

    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    Now I thought that I was a bit nerdy keeping just one spare copy for my favourite top 3 LPs, but this guy takes it to a new level. I just wanted to reply - WTF are you doing buying more copies anyway? Do you give each one name? Do you talk to them? Isn't 13 enough!! Life is short, just get laid and don't worry about it! - But i'm under the gun of a neg feedback so I have to tread carefully. I'm prepared to take the neg though if he's not being reasonable. It'll be my first.

    You made a listing error, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.
  • arvidarvid 50 Posts
    If I was you, I should ask the customer to send the record back and offer a refund.

    If you stated in your description it was a second press and it turned out to be a first press, than you obviously made a mistake. Don't take it too heavy, every once in a while (1 in a 100?) things like this happen. Take the loss (probably only a few bucks) and sell the record again. Just smile and move on.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I did and here's his freaky "evidence":

    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    Now I thought that I was a bit nerdy keeping just one spare copy for my favourite top 3 LPs, but this guy takes it to a new level. I just wanted to reply - WTF are you doing buying more copies anyway? Do you give each one name? Do you talk to them? Isn't 13 enough!! Life is short, just get laid and don't worry about it! - But i'm under the gun of a neg feedback so I have to tread carefully. I'm prepared to take the neg though if he's not being reasonable. It'll be my first.

    You made a listing error, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.



    Return and refund and then resell as a first press. You'd probably sell it for more to someone who isn't a anal-retentive Tribe hoarder.
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    I did and here's his freaky "evidence":

    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    Now I thought that I was a bit nerdy keeping just one spare copy for my favourite top 3 LPs, but this guy takes it to a new level. I just wanted to reply - WTF are you doing buying more copies anyway? Do you give each one name? Do you talk to them? Isn't 13 enough!! Life is short, just get laid and don't worry about it! - But i'm under the gun of a neg feedback so I have to tread carefully. I'm prepared to take the neg though if he's not being reasonable. It'll be my first.

    You made a listing error, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.



    Return and refund and then resell as a first press. You'd probably sell it for more to someone who isn't a anal-retentive Tribe hoarder.

    Anal retentive indeed. In fact it was a partial listing error - I listed it as an "original 70s issue" but with the comment "Not sure which cover came first - this or the black one - so bid accordinly". I've only learnt since that this cover was the second issue. My error or bad luck depending on how you interpret it was to not notice that the serial number on the cover (second issue) wasn't the same as the serial number on the vinyl (ist issue). I guess that this LP was packaged in the transition from one issue to the other when they had a surplus vinyl but not enought of the old covers. At the end of the day, I would be pleasantly surprised to buy a second issue cover with original vinyl in it. it's the same as buying a liberty blue note and finding a New York pressing inside. So if this guy wants to return it, he pays for shipping and takes the risk. I ain't budging an inch more for him.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    wow
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    I did and here's his freaky "evidence":

    "I have 3 sealed 1st copies and 2 open copies. Also have 2 sealed 2nd copies and 5 open copies. Absolutely 2nd vinyl is higher sound quality than 1st one due to re-mastered. This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    Now I thought that I was a bit nerdy keeping just one spare copy for my favourite top 3 LPs, but this guy takes it to a new level. I just wanted to reply - WTF are you doing buying more copies anyway? Do you give each one name? Do you talk to them? Isn't 13 enough!! Life is short, just get laid and don't worry about it! - But i'm under the gun of a neg feedback so I have to tread carefully. I'm prepared to take the neg though if he's not being reasonable. It'll be my first.

    You made a listing error, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.



    Return and refund and then resell as a first press. You'd probably sell it for more to someone who isn't a anal-retentive Tribe hoarder.

    Anal retentive indeed. In fact it was a partial listing error - I listed it as an "original 70s issue" but with the comment "Not sure which cover came first - this or the black one - so bid accordinly". I've only learnt since that this cover was the second issue. My error or bad luck depending on how you interpret it was to not notice that the serial number on the cover (second issue) wasn't the same as the serial number on the vinyl (ist issue). I guess that this LP was packaged in the transition from one issue to the other when they had a surplus vinyl but not enought of the old covers. At the end of the day, I would be pleasantly surprised to buy a second issue cover with original vinyl in it. it's the same as buying a liberty blue note and finding a New York pressing inside. So if this guy wants to return it, he pays for shipping and takes the risk. I ain't budging an inch more for him.

    How you handle it is up to you, but if you're going to sell on ebay with any regularity I strongly advise an attitude shift. This isn't the place to make a stand for your principles, just give him a refund and sell it to somebody else.

    The price of shipping will likely be less than the price of a neg deducted from your future auctions.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    wow

    Just so you know, this guy can't be trusted. He sells records with "scuffiness" as VG+ and I will not buy from him.
  • leonleon 883 Posts
    If I was you, I should ask the customer to send the record back and offer a refund.

    If you stated in your description it was a second press and it turned out to be a first press, than you obviously made a mistake. Don't take it too heavy, every once in a while (1 in a 100?) things like this happen. Take the loss (probably only a few bucks) and sell the record again. Just smile and move on.

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    Regardless of the business transaction, what is the real deal with the label color and pressing variations with Strata / Tribe releases? I've heard all sorts of things from different people...
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    If I was you, I should ask the customer to send the record back and offer a refund.

    If you stated in your description it was a second press and it turned out to be a first press, than you obviously made a mistake. Don't take it too heavy, every once in a while (1 in a 100?) things like this happen. Take the loss (probably only a few bucks) and sell the record again. Just smile and move on.


    I agree. Question for you - whenever I've had to return Lps I've always accepted to pay for the return shipping and to get a refund just for the Lp+outward shipping. Is that the norm or not?
  • ArksArks 133 Posts
    If I was you, I should ask the customer to send the record back and offer a refund.

    If you stated in your description it was a second press and it turned out to be a first press, than you obviously made a mistake. Don't take it too heavy, every once in a while (1 in a 100?) things like this happen. Take the loss (probably only a few bucks) and sell the record again. Just smile and move on.


    I agree. Question for you - whenever I've had to return Lps I've always accepted to pay for the return shipping and to get a refund just for the Lp+outward shipping. Is that the norm or not?

    See this has always irritated me - sellers that mess up and then say "oh just pay to send it back to me and I'll refund you".

    So, I'm paying money for shipping just to find out a seller failed to describe/grade/package a record correctly, and at the end of the day I have nothing to show for it? Awesome. And that's assuming the seller doesn't pull the "it never arrived, I'm still keeping an eye out for it" trick when you send the record back.

    Partial refund is my preferred solution personally. I think if you offer that, you're less likely to get the neg you fear.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I think in the case of a listing error, seller should pay for return shipping. If it's buyer's remorse, obviously, it'd be on the buyer.

    The times where I find there's more of a conflict is over damage to the LP that you assume - in good faith - the seller wasn't aware of.
  • BreezBreez 1,706 Posts
    Partial refund has to be your best bet. 9 out of 10 times that's the solution that I always come to with buyers. Even the real pain in the ass buyers usually are satisfied with that and give you positive feedback. BTW, do you state any refund/return policy in you descriptions?
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    Partial refund has to be your best bet. 9 out of 10 times that's the solution that I always come to with buyers. Even the real pain in the ass buyers usually are satisfied with that and give you positive feedback. BTW, do you state any refund/return policy in you descriptions?

    I offered it but he wants the full refund and has hit me with the neg - promises to revise it when he gets the refund. He's even insisting on me paying the pay pal fee.

    edit: I had stated no returns on the auction because the LP was perfect - I mean microscopically perfect - so I couldn't envisage a justification for returning it - but I've made an exception to that now that he points our the listing error. Even this 13 copy-owning anal retent couldn't find fault with the grading
  • plattenhainerplattenhainer 38 Posts
    "This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    "This transaction is 200% bad for tribe collectors."

    meaning it's true that the first pressing is less value than the second?, or that Tribe collectors are the worst type? or both?
  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    He already hit you with a neg? F*ck it deals off IMO. I wouldn't trust this dude with retracting it. The neg is already doing damage. If he sends the record back, keep the $. The damage is done. F*ck this guy.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    that actually qualifies as feedback extortion and can get the user kicked off ebay. You should absolutely get on chat with an ebay rep and see what your options are. I once had a Frenchman extorting me the same way over some afro boogie and not only did I get the asshole booted, as soon as he was booted the feedback was removed automatically.

    Stop talking to soulstrut and start talking to ebay. If this guy was serious he'd be willing to deal on an exchange/partial refund without leaving the neg. F*ck him where he lives.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Do I understand this correctly??

    1) This was a first pressing disc in a second pressing jacket? The odds of that happening are pretty unusual.

    2) The only way to know it was a first press disc is by the serial #'s in the dead wax? I'd say 999 out of 1,000 dealers, including myself, would NOT know this.

    3) This dude claims to have more than 10 copies of this LP? He's a nut.


    Tell him this is the one rare variation he does not have and is worth much more than what he paid for it. Then refund all his $$$.
  • arvidarvid 50 Posts
    If he gave you a negative feedback already, open a feedback extortion dispute at eBay. A buyer is not allowed to threaten with a negative feedback; I experienced this once with also a french buyer. I had to sent eBay the e-mail headers and his negative feedback got removed.
    When I had this experience, the communication took quite long and passed the deadline for him to open any further paypal disputes.
    I don't know if he would be able to open any other disputes in this case.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    cosine what JP said---why would you trust him to remove that neg and even if he did he is extorting you.

    get him to send the record back at his own expense and then refund him if and only if he removes that neg first. when you get the record back you pull the trigger on that ebay complaint.

    you are actually in a stronger bargaining position but he is dictating terms to you. he wants his money back, more than you don;t want the neg (which you already have). he blew his wad by throwing that neg out there prematurely. game played badly.

    get that record back if you can, i am one soulstrutter who would definitely settle for a first pressing.
  • tabiratabira 856 Posts
    Do I understand this correctly??

    This was a first pressing disc in a second pressing jacket?
    Correct

    The odds of that happening are pretty unusual.

    I'm not so sure - once had the misfortune to buy a sealed blue note with NY sleeve but a liberty pressing in side. It definately wasn't a reseal. Just last week I saw the reverse on ebay - an RVG new york label for auction in a liberty sleeve. The seller never even noticed and put nothing in the description about it. I also have a prestige LP with the California sleeve but a New jersey label inside. I guess that when labels switched addresses and pressings they used up the existing vinyl + covers before making more - and if one ran out before the other, which probably always happened, that led to temporary mismatching.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    this is the first I've heard about the second pressing being a 'remix'

    sounds like bullshit to me

    10 copies of this lp?

    also sounds like bullshit
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