Sorry dudes, if you didn't grow up with your grandmother cooking and dancing to that shit at family parties, it just looks like alot of commodity fetishism to me.
Personally i hate "latin" music, because every Saturday morning my dad would blast that shit and wake me up with his damn congas. But i still get it, and it's very emotional. I don't understand how an outsider collector could "get" that from the music, and thus i don't understand why anyone would pay money for this stuff aside from it being "collectible".. like pez or barbie dolls.
when i hear Afro-Peruvian music blaring through am radio i get a little weepy, I miss my family. Does that mean i'm going on ebay to battle with a bunch of bearded cat guys over the "value" of the actual physical latin record. NO.
That is really kind of silly.
It may be that people who didn't grow up with the music will never have your connection to it, but what's your basis for suggesting that they can't genuinely like it at all? Would you say the same of non-Jamaicans who like reggae? Non-Brazilians who like Jorge Ben? Pretty much any young person who likes jazz, since it hasn't been a favored popular music in a long time?
What is a record REALLY worth to someone? Where is the intrinsic value - is it in the music contained therein or in the actual physical specimen?
I don't collect rare 78s because i'm a collectro and thus i should just collect at random - i collect things i have a emotional connection to. I've made a few missteps over the years but i never bought a record JUST because it was raer, and for no other reason. If you get to that point, seek help.
** please take all this with a grain of salt SS, you ahve been a tad boring lately so i'm stirring your latin pot**
Sorry dudes, if you didn't grow up with your grandmother cooking and dancing to that shit at family parties, it just looks like alot of commodity fetishism to me.
Personally i hate "latin" music, because every Saturday morning my dad would blast that shit and wake me up with his damn congas. But i still get it, and it's very emotional. I don't understand how an outsider collector could "get" that from the music, and thus i don't understand why anyone would pay money for this stuff aside from it being "collectible".. like pez or barbie dolls.
when i hear Afro-Peruvian music blaring through am radio i get a little weepy, I miss my family. Does that mean i'm going on ebay to battle with a bunch of bearded cat guys over the "value" of the actual physical latin record. NO.
/end rant
Thes: The way I've always thought about it is that Afro-Cuban music has spent generations of trying to perfect the ideal dance rhythm. If that's not the definition of something seeking a universal appeal, I don't know what is. I can appreciate that your relationship to the music is personal but it doesn't stand to reason that no one without an abuela can't somehow find something to enjoy (or covet) about the various styles we're talking about here.
ehh, dont' take me too serious, I'm just killing time and felt like prodding what has always been a sensitive nerve for the fetish collectro.
here's my point in a nutmeg - I agree that you can appreciate anything for whatever reason and that as such you may become a specialist of the genre and thus pay more money for better quality stuff, etc. etc. etc.
I'm not trying to discount someone's appreciation for something and need to collectro it. I'm just saying that its funny that i have no desire at all to pay money for latin records, the music (not the record) has always mattered to me but paying inflated money for it against outside collectros seems weird. That doesn't discoutn someone elses appreciation for it, and i'm absolutely positive that you and rey and other people here know WAY more about latin catalog than me. But the fact that people come and go in and out of these genres kind of proves that they don't often ever "Feel" it, you know what i mean?
How many people are going to be selling their latin raer when they move on to the next collector trend (i'm stockpiling polka and 78s rat now)
I dont have many latin records(less than 50), but I love a lot of what I hear and I dont have any familial, ethnic whatever connections to it what so ever. Latin soul really gets to me because it is impossible to not latch onto to it immediately...the hooks, the hand claps...in fact I dont anyone who hears, say "subway joe" for the first time and goes "ehhhhhhhhh" It is remarkable pop music...and as far as my fetish for guijaras, i just chalk that up to its moody minor keys, tempo and trombone solos (I love a good trombone solo) things I love about music...so I dont think I had to have a puerto rican grandma playin this shit in the kitchen to genuinely enjoy some, albeit narrowly defined types, of latin music.
right. that's why people can go into countries, take all their records (because they don't place the outsider value equivalent on the physical product) and then sell them at inflated prices to people of other cultures who hoard and collector those physical pieces.
I'm not making an ethics call or saying that that is wrong, especially when people are getting paid fairly (ala frank) - but it's funny to me to see ole beardy catman peeing his pants over something that was popular and contextually relevent in ghana or brazil or cuba.
hell yes, at least in la, happens all the time. Look at the massive raer groove selloffs that happened in the latter half of the 2000's so dudes could reinvest in things like high school records, then sell of to reinvest in afro-beat, psych or boner or whatever.
hell yes, at least in la, happens all the time. Look at the massive raer groove selloffs that happened in the latter half of the 2000's so dudes could reinvest in things like high school records, then sell of to reinvest in afro-beat, psych or boner or whatever.
happens every couple of years.
turkish sell off coming
Wait, Turkish records were hot? Shit, I need to catch up!
I collect Latin records as an investment. Not an economic investment, per se, but rather a musical one: I've seen how records that had one funk/soul/rock cut on them grew on me and allowed me to slowly familiarize myself with other Latin styles and sub-genres. I love returning to a Latin record that I thought sucked a year prior, only to find it sounds completely new and different and GOOD to me today as my musical swayings evolve, sophisticate, and become better informed. The typical Latin record includes a plethora of diverse styles, each with a rich lineage and history. Unraveling this body of music is my passion and I ain't quitting anytime soon, son.
I'm still getting my feet wet with Latin records in general, excited about the road ahead.
And also: F*ck the notion of collecting records because they're "hott" at the moment. If you are not buying music that you love, you are doing it for false reasons. Mega props to the all DJs out there that never compromise their tastes!
And also: F*ck the notion of collecting records because they're "hott" at the moment. If you are not buying music that you love, you are doing it for false reasons. Mega props to the all DJs out there that never compromise their tastes!
I get accused of this around these parts and it's total bullsh*t! Sometimes my discovery of records is based on what's "hott" at the moment from a mix or whatever, but my tastes and purchases are based solely on what I like. I didn't know anything about Turkish records until people started sweating Baris Manco, but I f*cking dug it when I heard it so I got into it. I buy the records I wanna buy and could give two sh*ts what Soulstrut thinks about it!
PS - I like Latin records... is that okay with everybody?
And also: F*ck the notion of collecting records because they're "hott" at the moment. If you are not buying music that you love, you are doing it for false reasons. Mega props to the all DJs out there that never compromise their tastes!
I get accused of this around these parts and it's total bullsh*t! Sometimes my discovery of records is based on what's "hott" at the moment from a mix or whatever, but my tastes and purchases are based solely on what I like. I didn't know anything about Turkish records until people started sweating Baris Manco, but I f*cking dug it when I heard it so I got into it. I buy the records I wanna buy and could give two sh*ts what Soulstrut thinks about it!
PS - I like Latin records... is that okay with everybody?
I should have said "F*ck the notion of collecting records SOLELY[/b] because they're "hott" at the moment."
And also: F*ck the notion of collecting records because they're "hott" at the moment. If you are not buying music that you love, you are doing it for false reasons. Mega props to the all DJs out there that never compromise their tastes!
I get accused of this around these parts and it's total bullsh*t! Sometimes my discovery of records is based on what's "hott" at the moment from a mix or whatever, but my tastes and purchases are based solely on what I like. I didn't know anything about Turkish records until people started sweating Baris Manco, but I f*cking dug it when I heard it so I got into it. I buy the records I wanna buy and could give two sh*ts what Soulstrut thinks about it!
PS - I like Latin records... is that okay with everybody?
I should have said "F*ck the notion of collecting records SOLELY[/b] because they're "hott" at the moment."
Oh... I wasn't knocking your comment... I know you're not one of my accusers. I know owe you a mix btw... in the works... it's all the "hottest" Latin records of the moment
Listen to what you enjoy and really feel (if this doesn't make sense to you then you're in it for the wrong reasons). I've never understood how people go through these phases of being hyper-focused within a genre. No one else does that shit. Look through any real person's record collection and there is a bunch of unorganized shit that doesn't fit together. None of this fits into expedit divider categories. If you do not understand this please to return to start, do not pass go, or collect $200 records.
Horse: I could be wrong but I imagine there are any number of good explanations why, starting with the fact that Brazil was colonized by the Portuguese rather than the Spanish and that the slave routes that brought Africans to various points in the Afro-Caribbean perhaps routed differently to Brazil than through other parts of the Spanish-speaking colonies (especially Cuba). Add to that Brazil's massive, internal music industry and culture. Geography aside, Brazil's always been a nation separate in key economic, political and cultural ways.
Let me be so specific (no Funk Flex):
Take out a map. Look at Brasil. Good. Now realize that the musical capital of Brasil is Rio, drawing on influences from Bahia and its heavily Angolan population (I'll point out now the fact that the slave trade in Latin America and the Caribbean was not dominantly Angolan.)
Now, please to understand that the entire interior of Brasil is basically irrelevent when it comes to both contact with other countries, roads, shipping, music, whatever. I mean 90 percent of Brasilian territory that borders with other countries is nowhereland. This is not like the US of A where there is developed national highway system (you still cannot drive on a highway to Manaus, the biggest city on the Amazon) Basically you can go up and down the coast and that's it (even that is highly questionable at certain points).
The African influence on Brasilian music comes from a completely different part of Africa (surprise! Africa is not one big country!) and that physically the only real border where there is anything we could call a city is the one with Argentina (and subsequently Uruguay, which was basically created as a buffer zone so that Brasil and Argentina would stop fighting bloody wars. Which is to say that there really is no real border with any of these afro-latin-salsa" countries. Those borders you see on maps...the surrounding areas are really isolted on the Brasilian side.
Plus, if you've ever been to South America, you know that it is NOT common for anyone but Argentinians to visit Brasil, if they're from another South American country. If you are from Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela, Colombia, whatever, and you have been to Brasil, that is pretty much baller status for the rest of your life. And on the other side, my friends from Brasil who had studied abroad in college often went to Chile and Peru because they are considered uncharted territory for Brasilians. But never Colombia, because it's perceived as dangerous to the point where I actually had a teacher kind of get startled when a dude in my class down there said he was from Colombia.
I guess all I'm trying to stress is that there is 100x more contact, on social and economic terms, between Brasil and the USA than there is between Brasil and their neighboring countries. Brasil is on some OTHER steez, and not just musically.
Comments
Record collecting in general?
Soul Strut in general?
That is really kind of silly.
It may be that people who didn't grow up with the music will never have your connection to it, but what's your basis for suggesting that they can't genuinely like it at all? Would you say the same of non-Jamaicans who like reggae? Non-Brazilians who like Jorge Ben? Pretty much any young person who likes jazz, since it hasn't been a favored popular music in a long time?
What is a record REALLY worth to someone? Where is the intrinsic value - is it in the music contained therein or in the actual physical specimen?
I don't collect rare 78s because i'm a collectro and thus i should just collect at random - i collect things i have a emotional connection to. I've made a few missteps over the years but i never bought a record JUST because it was raer, and for no other reason. If you get to that point, seek help.
** please take all this with a grain of salt SS, you ahve been a tad boring lately so i'm stirring your latin pot**
Glad to get that cleared up.
Thes: The way I've always thought about it is that Afro-Cuban music has spent generations of trying to perfect the ideal dance rhythm. If that's not the definition of something seeking a universal appeal, I don't know what is. I can appreciate that your relationship to the music is personal but it doesn't stand to reason that no one without an abuela can't somehow find something to enjoy (or covet) about the various styles we're talking about here.
here's my point in a nutmeg - I agree that you can appreciate anything for whatever reason and that as such you may become a specialist of the genre and thus pay more money for better quality stuff, etc. etc. etc.
I'm not trying to discount someone's appreciation for something and need to collectro it. I'm just saying that its funny that i have no desire at all to pay money for latin records, the music (not the record) has always mattered to me but paying inflated money for it against outside collectros seems weird. That doesn't discoutn someone elses appreciation for it, and i'm absolutely positive that you and rey and other people here know WAY more about latin catalog than me. But the fact that people come and go in and out of these genres kind of proves that they don't often ever "Feel" it, you know what i mean?
How many people are going to be selling their latin raer when they move on to the next collector trend (i'm stockpiling polka and 78s rat now)
I'm not making an ethics call or saying that that is wrong, especially when people are getting paid fairly (ala frank) - but it's funny to me to see ole beardy catman peeing his pants over something that was popular and contextually relevent in ghana or brazil or cuba.
Do people actually do this?
Intensely collect a genre and then sell all of the records off because they've moved onto something else?
happens every couple of years.
turkish sell off coming
Yeah, totally.
I guess I just don't know any of these people
Wait, Turkish records were hot? Shit, I need to catch up!
I'm still getting my feet wet with Latin records in general, excited about the road ahead.
And also: F*ck the notion of collecting records because they're "hott" at the moment. If you are not buying music that you love, you are doing it for false reasons. Mega props to the all DJs out there that never compromise their tastes!
I get accused of this around these parts and it's total bullsh*t! Sometimes my discovery of records is based on what's "hott" at the moment from a mix or whatever, but my tastes and purchases are based solely on what I like. I didn't know anything about Turkish records until people started sweating Baris Manco, but I f*cking dug it when I heard it so I got into it. I buy the records I wanna buy and could give two sh*ts what Soulstrut thinks about it!
PS - I like Latin records... is that okay with everybody?
now pull your car around so we can put pizza on the roof.
Aha... case and point... I don't let my income bracket dictate my musical tastes like you suggest!
I should have said "F*ck the notion of collecting records SOLELY[/b] because they're "hott" at the moment."
Oh... I wasn't knocking your comment... I know you're not one of my accusers. I know owe you a mix btw... in the works... it's all the "hottest" Latin records of the moment
how many angels...?
Listen to what you enjoy and really feel (if this doesn't make sense to you then you're in it for the wrong reasons). I've never understood how people go through these phases of being hyper-focused within a genre. No one else does that shit. Look through any real person's record collection and there is a bunch of unorganized shit that doesn't fit together. None of this fits into expedit divider categories. If you do not understand this please to return to start, do not pass go, or collect $200 records.
that's not weird. THIS IS WEIRD:
Let me be so specific (no Funk Flex):
Take out a map. Look at Brasil. Good. Now realize that the musical capital of Brasil is Rio, drawing on influences from Bahia and its heavily Angolan population (I'll point out now the fact that the slave trade in Latin America and the Caribbean was not dominantly Angolan.)
Now, please to understand that the entire interior of Brasil is basically irrelevent when it comes to both contact with other countries, roads, shipping, music, whatever. I mean 90 percent of Brasilian territory that borders with other countries is nowhereland. This is not like the US of A where there is developed national highway system (you still cannot drive on a highway to Manaus, the biggest city on the Amazon) Basically you can go up and down the coast and that's it (even that is highly questionable at certain points).
The African influence on Brasilian music comes from a completely different part of Africa (surprise! Africa is not one big country!) and that physically the only real border where there is anything we could call a city is the one with Argentina (and subsequently Uruguay, which was basically created as a buffer zone so that Brasil and Argentina would stop fighting bloody wars. Which is to say that there really is no real border with any of these afro-latin-salsa" countries. Those borders you see on maps...the surrounding areas are really isolted on the Brasilian side.
Plus, if you've ever been to South America, you know that it is NOT common for anyone but Argentinians to visit Brasil, if they're from another South American country. If you are from Peru, Chile, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela, Colombia, whatever, and you have been to Brasil, that is pretty much baller status for the rest of your life. And on the other side, my friends from Brasil who had studied abroad in college often went to Chile and Peru because they are considered uncharted territory for Brasilians. But never Colombia, because it's perceived as dangerous to the point where I actually had a teacher kind of get startled when a dude in my class down there said he was from Colombia.
I guess all I'm trying to stress is that there is 100x more contact, on social and economic terms, between Brasil and the USA than there is between Brasil and their neighboring countries. Brasil is on some OTHER steez, and not just musically.
dude.