Yer we're pretty fucked. Maybe dropping out the top 4 will force the club to realise that, like it or not, the game has changed. You have to now pay over the odds for players, who you'll then have to pay rediculous salaries, else they'll always be eyeing a move.
It's unlikely the likes of Arteta & Yossi are ever going to fill the shoes of Cesc & Na$ri, but our issues go deeper than personnel. A complete inability to defend for one. Combined with the fact that we still insist on playing in the style of a shit Barcelona, though it's clear we don't have the personal to pull it off. Even with Cesc we struggled, especial with the 'defending from the front' part, which is crucial if you're going to play a high line, but for some reason the management don't see it.
We built a team around one very good player, it's not surprising that when he left we fell apart. Our sole remaining world class player RvP also dictates we play a certain style to suit him, which is unfortunately to the detriment of every other striker in the squad. I could moan on.. but I'm surprised you got this far.
On the upside our youth squad / reserves are still looking strong, unbeaten so far this season. Hopefully some more of those home grown players will make it to the first team. Two of the most promising are wingers, so maybe that will encourage a change in style, or a plan B at least.
Liverpool???s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that ???Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.??? This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that is wasn???t remotely true, not one bit.
In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused ??? the claims came from others.
In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I???m sure you???ll agree.
In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United???s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says ???The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.??? It later goes on to say ???Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.???
So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I???m sure you???ll agree.
Evra never stepped up to defend a fellow pro who he knew to be facing a baseless allegation of racism either.
I like Evra. His forthrightness is a rare thing amongst modern players, and it's frankly bullshit to play the "playing the race card" card whenever a black footballer makes a claim of this nature. But if Evra's done this because he knows it's a cheap way of smearing an opponent and making him look bad, particularly one known to have "a side" like Suarez, then he's a shithouse.
In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I???m sure you???ll agree.
Evra never stepped up to defend a fellow pro who he knew to be facing a baseless allegation of racism either.
I like Evra. His forthrightness is a rare thing amongst modern players, and it's frankly bullshit to play the "playing the race card" card whenever a black footballer makes a claim of this nature. But if Evra's done this because he knows it's a cheap way of smearing an opponent and making him look bad, particularly one known to have "a side" like Suarez, then he's a shithouse.
So, still no resolution on this and we need to see one or other head roll.
If Suarez did the do, his ass needs kicking out of football. You can't have fans being thrown out for racial language and not extend the same logic to the field. We all worked too hard to let such back-slide happen.
If Evra is telling malicious porkies, he cannot be allowed to use the threat of 'racist' slurs against fellow pros (or indeed any person) without any comeback. If that is allowed to slide, he paves the way for dismissal of valid future claims by other black footballers.
No, we really need one or other's head on a plate for this. Exemplary punishment. Sine die ban.
Decided not to watch the match as had the feeling for a while now that Utd were performing well below par and this would happen sooner rather than later (though didn't expect to be humiliated quite so severely). Early results this season have definitely hidden the ramshackle nature of the team at the moment and I've been surprised there hasn't been more discussion of it in the media after three piss poor performances in Europe this season.
I don't see it as a symbolic changing of the guard but with any luck it will force this young team to start playing every game like it's their last (I'm thinking Newcastle's destruction of us in the 96/97 season).
More than anything though it kind of made me realise how little I care anymore about these overpaid muppets.
Overall I must admit it was a pleasing weekend of sport.
We won the rugby, without any serious injuries to boot. RvP showing his class once again - Although the co-commentator greeted his goal with a "I wonder how long before he moves on" comment. Tony Gale you're a cunt.
Manure got a well deserved kicking. Glad to hear the glory glory fans took it well and didn't behave like some over entitled babies by attacking the Glazer's on their way out. Not sure how the defeat was their fault?
And then Chel$ki got done at QPR, with the bonus that Drogba will miss his next game against us. which is nice.
It'll be interesting to see how United take it tbh. I doubt they're going to struggle as much as Arsenal did after their pasting at OT, as they don't have anything like the same sort of problems. I wonder if their belief that they're always on for the comeback finally be shaken, cause it seem to be their undoing yesterday.
Until now most pundits seem to be so enamoured by United they can't see their failings. Ever since CR7 left they've looked a mediocre side compared to the world beaters they're hyped to be. SAF insistence being primarily defensive then relying on wide men & gifted forwards, whilst neglecting any creative MF type player, seems to be the detriment of the side.
Arsenal are the opposite, whilst Mancini seems to have gotten the balance right, United level defending and Arsenal level creative forward play.
Modern football is a team game, but amazing individuals make the good teams great. All last season I was saying that whenever Arsenal played without Fabregas, we just weren???t the same team. The passing, the composure on the ball, and the chances created weren???t there. We often won without Cesc, but we weren???t Arsenal. Sunday it took Van Percy for us to see off Stoke. Teams are reliant on individual brilliance. Which makes it fascinating and scarily inevitable watching a team bought and assembled by billionaires emerge as the strongest outfit in the league by such a distance. The volleyed defence-splitting through-ball from Silva to Dzeko. Balotelli???s calmly taken opener. If Ballo had stayed on the pitch I think it would???ve been more than 6. As a Gooner I???m jealous (partly because I???m often watching ex-Arsenal players!), as a football fan I???m impressed. I think it would take the most partisan Man U fan to think that keeping Evans on the pitch would???ve changed the result. The score-line, maybe. But an old school midfield 4 consisting of two out-and-out wingers with two scrappers in the middle against a fluid midfield with a genuine creator seems to show up a poverty of ambition on UTD???s part. You would???ve thought that Ferg had learned something from his two Barcelona encounters. His nous saw Man U win the league with a first choice midfield that I don???t think would???ve got into any of the other top teams. The league is slowly evolving ??? Norwich could???ve had UTD. Last season, Blackpool should???ve. Some bloggers on the Grauniad think that Cleverly would???ve made a difference, but I think the formation would???ve left him stranded, not to mention that he???s not good enough to make up for the gulf in class between City and UTD.
Chelsea: didn???t get a decision for 90 minutes! I did wonder if somebody had got to the ref, and thought they showed great spirit to take the game to QPR with 9 men. Both the dismissals were deserved, but Chelsea didn???t seem to be able to win a free-kick. Strange match.
Van Percy will move on unless Arsenal spend something close to 80 million in the summer strengthening the squad. Arsehavin & Bloodclot are both sh*t for different reasons. Song actually looks leaner and fitter than I???ve ever seen him, and Ramsey is starting to look close to his best. Gervinho is better than Theo, but frustrating. Rosicknote should???ve been sold a few seasons ago. Has Benayoun actually played for us yet? Arteta is a very poor man???s Fabregas. Djourou is a sub not a starter, and Mertesacker needs replacing. Santos can???t defend. Chamakh is the new Bendtner. If Van Percy stays fit for the whole season, we might finish top 4, and he???ll be a good shout for golden boot. If he gets crocked, we are doomed.
Without sounding like too much of a blinkered United fan, I honestly believed the comeback was on until the stoppage time meltdown which tactically resembled the Charge of the Light Brigade.
A little unfair to label the current squad as particularly defensive cos they really can't defend. The rotation of the squad is problematic as it has been forced through injuries, there's no continuity especially across the backline and central midfield.
Also sod CR7, Real Madrid will continue to do very well with his brand of selfishness and whilst he might win the Golden Boot every season, they won't be winning any of the major trophies.
Good as City were, Un*ted were very poor. They held up at the back for the first 45, IIRC, but then went to sleep for the 2nd half. They could create nothing nor stop nothing. The midfield had their chins on their chests for the rest of the game. Rooney was a non-factor. Un*ted are usually unfazed by the magnitude of any mountains, but yesterday just didn't get themselves together. I guess every side has a couple of stinkers a season.
A fit Vidic and Cleverly would have made a difference. Un*ted did boss City for pretty much the whole of the Charity Shield despite going 2-0 down. That wasn't so long ago. But City were not in the mood for charity yesterday. It could have been 8 if Dzeko had his shooting boots on.
They were definitely missing some older heads at the weekend and you couldn't help feeling that they had no one to steady the ship. If I was Fergie I would be more concerned about their toothless attack than the issues with defence which should settle down when players return. The European matches have far too often had lots of attacking play by Utd without actually creating proper opportunities. For a team with that much talent on the wings and up front it kind of boggles the mind.
Just been trying to reignite my passion by reading Guardian comments and came across this gem:
???If City is succesful, it will be because of excellent transfer activity and coaching. The best players on the field today were Kompany (8m), Silva (24m), Balotelli (24m), Aguerro (38m), Richard (academy), none of them an exorbitant purchase. Despite the unceasing hostility towards him, Mancini has proved himself close to Mourinho and Fergie in ability, with none of the nastiness???
Without sounding like too much of a blinkered United fan, I honestly believed the comeback was on until the stoppage time meltdown which tactically resembled the Charge of the Light Brigade.
Paul, you've gone to OPTA or one of those sites in the past, can you dredge up how many shots (on target) Man U managed? Not many from memory. Plenty of possession in dangerous areas, but Citeh never looked like conceding. It feels like Citeh are the only PL team in the same bracket as Barca or Real Madrid. I don't think that any other English team would make them break a sweat at the moment.
If Arsenal were in better shape I'd be crowing louder about this result. But after selling Cesc & Nasri, the replacements we got in, 8-2 against UTD, and that Blackburn game... I expect Citeh to beat us with the same combination of strength and power that Chelsea with Drogba on form used to.
Yeh, spending 200 million isn't extravagant. Having a bench that cost more than the entire Arsenal first team isn't extravagant either. I guess the fan boys gotta get their excuses in early. I'm looking forward to all the glory seekers jumping ship and magically turning blue over night. Must be a dilemma for all those dickwad plastic United fans who plague internet football forums.
It feels like Citeh are the only PL team in the same bracket as Barca or Real Madrid. I don't think that any other English team would make them break a sweat at the moment.
Nah. It's a nice compliment but really, Barca and Real not struggling to qualify for the last 16, are they? Bayern fisted us good and proper. Villareal were not the pushover everyone expected. A couple of years away if everything goes well, but even then, CR7 and Messi are on their own level.
???If City is succesful, it will be because of excellent transfer activity and coaching. The best players on the field today were Kompany (8m), Silva (24m), Balotelli (24m), Aguerro (38m), Richard (academy), none of them an exorbitant purchase.
The game done changed.........
Coming from a Man U fan that's a bit rich to complain about spending. Of that list only Aguerro tops any UTD purchases. And I think that Silva & Balotelli were bargains at 24m each. This list is very selective though. As has been pointed out by Skel/other strutters, the tops teams [strike]spend[/strike] invest. It's alienating. But I don't think there's much point in getting moral about it anymore as I've tried that and watched Arsenal get stripped of talent every season with little re-investment and now I just want us to spend as well! Fuck it. I want Usmanov to take over the board and build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan all the way to the Emirates. We can have a refinery in the car park run by illegal immigrant slave labour. We got rid of Bendtner & Almunia - just stop selling our best players too, and invest in some decent replacements rather than kids that might win something next year. Or at least teach Arsenal how to defend set-pieces.
J i m s t e r said:
Duderonomy said:
It feels like Citeh are the only PL team in the same bracket as Barca or Real Madrid. I don't think that any other English team would make them break a sweat at the moment.
Nah. It's a nice compliment but really, Barca and Real not struggling to qualify for the last 16, are they? Bayern fisted us good and proper. Villareal were not the pushover everyone expected. A couple of years away if everything goes well, but even then, CR7 and Messi are on their own level.
Well, results like this can change a team. Last season it felt like Mancini was too cautious to ever let Citeh off the leash. But the conservatism got 2nd spot. It's not just that Citeh are good, but the rest of the Prem is sh*t at the moment. Chest-thumping media is of course trying to big this up as the unpredictable brilliance that makes the PL so popular and all that, but really there's a massive drop in quality. Man U is defensively the worst of any Ferg team surely. Chelsea look resurgent one week and comedy the next, but also defensively not formidable. Liverpool have been in the doldrums for a while and def not as strong as the side of Xabi & Masch, flashes of Suarez brilliance aside. Arsenal have been involved in a bum-raping of their own making. Spurs are slighty improved going fwd with Adebayor, but Defoe is still a greedy tit who never passes at the right time, and the defence is always vulnerable if King is injured (i.e most weeks). So Citeh seem like the only team to be making significant improvements.
Comments
It's unlikely the likes of Arteta & Yossi are ever going to fill the shoes of Cesc & Na$ri, but our issues go deeper than personnel. A complete inability to defend for one. Combined with the fact that we still insist on playing in the style of a shit Barcelona, though it's clear we don't have the personal to pull it off. Even with Cesc we struggled, especial with the 'defending from the front' part, which is crucial if you're going to play a high line, but for some reason the management don't see it.
We built a team around one very good player, it's not surprising that when he left we fell apart. Our sole remaining world class player RvP also dictates we play a certain style to suit him, which is unfortunately to the detriment of every other striker in the squad. I could moan on.. but I'm surprised you got this far.
On the upside our youth squad / reserves are still looking strong, unbeaten so far this season. Hopefully some more of those home grown players will make it to the first team. Two of the most promising are wingers, so maybe that will encourage a change in style, or a plan B at least.
I know that if this does happen in England, many will just use Proxies/VPN/TOR/ETC ETC ETC.
But I can't see this not pissing off plenty of Brits.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047651/New-curbs-internet-sleaze-protect-children-unsuitable-content.html
Nani doing his final prep for the Liverpool game tommorow....
how do the merseysiders feel about gerrard's start?
Whingeing, whiny ass, scowling faced, habitual race-card pulling douche Evra, or "nigger"-spitting, dive-cheat Betty Suarez?
kthxbai
Evra was complaining as he walked back from the coin toss yesterday and continued the whole game.
I'm suspicious of his claims.
Via an interpreter, of course.
Evra never stepped up to defend a fellow pro who he knew to be facing a baseless allegation of racism either.
I like Evra. His forthrightness is a rare thing amongst modern players, and it's frankly bullshit to play the "playing the race card" card whenever a black footballer makes a claim of this nature. But if Evra's done this because he knows it's a cheap way of smearing an opponent and making him look bad, particularly one known to have "a side" like Suarez, then he's a shithouse.
http://www.liquidfootball.net/storage/Rooney hair.gif
crap, can't get the gif to work. copy and paste entire line into browseur...
That one's just f*cking scary.
Neymar, Ronaldinho, Messi.
So, still no resolution on this and we need to see one or other head roll.
If Suarez did the do, his ass needs kicking out of football. You can't have fans being thrown out for racial language and not extend the same logic to the field. We all worked too hard to let such back-slide happen.
If Evra is telling malicious porkies, he cannot be allowed to use the threat of 'racist' slurs against fellow pros (or indeed any person) without any comeback. If that is allowed to slide, he paves the way for dismissal of valid future claims by other black footballers.
No, we really need one or other's head on a plate for this. Exemplary punishment. Sine die ban.
still, nice quip from one of the arsenal yoot:
Dis me in the Chinese,
must deal theatre of dreams.
I don't see it as a symbolic changing of the guard but with any luck it will force this young team to start playing every game like it's their last (I'm thinking Newcastle's destruction of us in the 96/97 season).
More than anything though it kind of made me realise how little I care anymore about these overpaid muppets.
Though I still 3 Balotelli.
We won the rugby, without any serious injuries to boot. RvP showing his class once again - Although the co-commentator greeted his goal with a "I wonder how long before he moves on" comment. Tony Gale you're a cunt.
Manure got a well deserved kicking. Glad to hear the glory glory fans took it well and didn't behave like some over entitled babies by attacking the Glazer's on their way out. Not sure how the defeat was their fault?
And then Chel$ki got done at QPR, with the bonus that Drogba will miss his next game against us. which is nice.
It'll be interesting to see how United take it tbh. I doubt they're going to struggle as much as Arsenal did after their pasting at OT, as they don't have anything like the same sort of problems. I wonder if their belief that they're always on for the comeback finally be shaken, cause it seem to be their undoing yesterday.
Until now most pundits seem to be so enamoured by United they can't see their failings. Ever since CR7 left they've looked a mediocre side compared to the world beaters they're hyped to be. SAF insistence being primarily defensive then relying on wide men & gifted forwards, whilst neglecting any creative MF type player, seems to be the detriment of the side.
Arsenal are the opposite, whilst Mancini seems to have gotten the balance right, United level defending and Arsenal level creative forward play.
Chelsea: didn???t get a decision for 90 minutes! I did wonder if somebody had got to the ref, and thought they showed great spirit to take the game to QPR with 9 men. Both the dismissals were deserved, but Chelsea didn???t seem to be able to win a free-kick. Strange match.
Van Percy will move on unless Arsenal spend something close to 80 million in the summer strengthening the squad. Arsehavin & Bloodclot are both sh*t for different reasons. Song actually looks leaner and fitter than I???ve ever seen him, and Ramsey is starting to look close to his best. Gervinho is better than Theo, but frustrating. Rosicknote should???ve been sold a few seasons ago. Has Benayoun actually played for us yet? Arteta is a very poor man???s Fabregas. Djourou is a sub not a starter, and Mertesacker needs replacing. Santos can???t defend. Chamakh is the new Bendtner. If Van Percy stays fit for the whole season, we might finish top 4, and he???ll be a good shout for golden boot. If he gets crocked, we are doomed.
A little unfair to label the current squad as particularly defensive cos they really can't defend. The rotation of the squad is problematic as it has been forced through injuries, there's no continuity especially across the backline and central midfield.
Also sod CR7, Real Madrid will continue to do very well with his brand of selfishness and whilst he might win the Golden Boot every season, they won't be winning any of the major trophies.
A fit Vidic and Cleverly would have made a difference. Un*ted did boss City for pretty much the whole of the Charity Shield despite going 2-0 down. That wasn't so long ago. But City were not in the mood for charity yesterday. It could have been 8 if Dzeko had his shooting boots on.
de Gea? Up to this league?
Just been trying to reignite my passion by reading Guardian comments and came across this gem:
???If City is succesful, it will be because of excellent transfer activity and coaching. The best players on the field today were Kompany (8m), Silva (24m), Balotelli (24m), Aguerro (38m), Richard (academy), none of them an exorbitant purchase. Despite the unceasing hostility towards him, Mancini has proved himself close to Mourinho and Fergie in ability, with none of the nastiness???
The game done changed.........
Paul, you've gone to OPTA or one of those sites in the past, can you dredge up how many shots (on target) Man U managed? Not many from memory. Plenty of possession in dangerous areas, but Citeh never looked like conceding. It feels like Citeh are the only PL team in the same bracket as Barca or Real Madrid. I don't think that any other English team would make them break a sweat at the moment.
If Arsenal were in better shape I'd be crowing louder about this result. But after selling Cesc & Nasri, the replacements we got in, 8-2 against UTD, and that Blackburn game... I expect Citeh to beat us with the same combination of strength and power that Chelsea with Drogba on form used to.
Nah. It's a nice compliment but really, Barca and Real not struggling to qualify for the last 16, are they? Bayern fisted us good and proper. Villareal were not the pushover everyone expected. A couple of years away if everything goes well, but even then, CR7 and Messi are on their own level.
Coming from a Man U fan that's a bit rich to complain about spending. Of that list only Aguerro tops any UTD purchases. And I think that Silva & Balotelli were bargains at 24m each. This list is very selective though. As has been pointed out by Skel/other strutters, the tops teams [strike]spend[/strike] invest. It's alienating. But I don't think there's much point in getting moral about it anymore as I've tried that and watched Arsenal get stripped of talent every season with little re-investment and now I just want us to spend as well! Fuck it. I want Usmanov to take over the board and build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan all the way to the Emirates. We can have a refinery in the car park run by illegal immigrant slave labour. We got rid of Bendtner & Almunia - just stop selling our best players too, and invest in some decent replacements rather than kids that might win something next year. Or at least teach Arsenal how to defend set-pieces.
Well, results like this can change a team. Last season it felt like Mancini was too cautious to ever let Citeh off the leash. But the conservatism got 2nd spot. It's not just that Citeh are good, but the rest of the Prem is sh*t at the moment. Chest-thumping media is of course trying to big this up as the unpredictable brilliance that makes the PL so popular and all that, but really there's a massive drop in quality. Man U is defensively the worst of any Ferg team surely. Chelsea look resurgent one week and comedy the next, but also defensively not formidable. Liverpool have been in the doldrums for a while and def not as strong as the side of Xabi & Masch, flashes of Suarez brilliance aside. Arsenal have been involved in a bum-raping of their own making. Spurs are slighty improved going fwd with Adebayor, but Defoe is still a greedy tit who never passes at the right time, and the defence is always vulnerable if King is injured (i.e most weeks). So Citeh seem like the only team to be making significant improvements.