The paper today was talking about the problems of dealing with success and pointed to Springsteen as someone who has handled success well. The paper seemed to think that Springsteen has never left his working class roots. I think that might be more of shtick than a reality, but he does seem to have his feet on the ground.
As others have noted, Springsteen wasn't a child star. I was thinking a lot about this and the only two comparable artists who began as kids and survived/thrived into adulthood are:
Stevie Wonder Celine Dion
It's questionable how well-adjusted Celine is (though she's nowhere near Jack-O era crazy). Stevie = pretty much all you could want from a pop genius with seemingly few drawbacks.
MJ just sounds like he had a really shitty childhood. Dude had a carry a lot on those shoulders.
all this shit everyone is decidedly now calling "boogie" these days, he is the spark that set it all off. him and rick. that's it. everything else, though it's hot stuff for damn sure, is in it's shadow.
Interesting you say this. I've been thinking about how MJ was one of the last real, intergenerational pop stars we're ever going to see in our lifetime. He wasn't just big in the '80s, he practically helped define that era and for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has been changes in how media works today, it's just hard to imagine we'll see anything like that again.
Open question: besides MJ, who else is left with that kind of cultural "universality"? Madonna? Prince? (And again, notice how they're all '80s cats).
O-Dub, my brother!!!
MJ is so intergenerational that he is the only one of these "eighties cats" who was also a "seventies cat!"
Oh, no doubt. Believe me, I've spent the last 24 hours soaking far more in his 70s output than 80s. But MJ didn't define the 70s as a cultural figure in the same way he did the '80s.
He might not have been the leader like he was in the 80's but dude was the man before OTW. All my older cousins had Afro MJ on thier wall in the 70's. After the early Motown run he was still loved in his teenage years in LBE. He never left the grid. He was still a teen idol and ahead of the pack. Dude was in the news for going to Studio 54 and dating Tatum O'Neal. And his role in the Wiz was a big deal. All before OTW.
all this shit everyone is decidedly now calling "boogie" these days, he is the spark that set it all off. him and rick. that's it. everything else, though it's hot stuff for damn sure, is in it's shadow.
Interesting you say this. I've been thinking about how MJ was one of the last real, intergenerational pop stars we're ever going to see in our lifetime. He wasn't just big in the '80s, he practically helped define that era and for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has been changes in how media works today, it's just hard to imagine we'll see anything like that again.
Open question: besides MJ, who else is left with that kind of cultural "universality"? Madonna? Prince? (And again, notice how they're all '80s cats).
O-Dub, my brother!!!
MJ is so intergenerational that he is the only one of these "eighties cats" who was also a "seventies cat!"
Oh, no doubt. Believe me, I've spent the last 24 hours soaking far more in his 70s output than 80s. But MJ didn't define the 70s as a cultural figure in the same way he did the '80s.
He might not have been the leader like he was in the 80's but dude was the man before OTW.
I never said he was unwanted. The man had a niche. But you made the call - he wasn't the leader (except in the "black teen idol" category).
Dude was in the news for going to Studio 54 and dating Tatum O'Neal.
It later came out that they weren't "dating," they were merely "hanging out." MJ was digging on her, but was too shy to make a move; Tatum was oblivious. In the meantime, there was a cameraman in the house (all the pic I've ever seen of MJ & Tatum together were all taken on that same night).
Last I remember, after MJ got weird Tatum refused to have anything to do with him and wouldn't make any public comments (this would have been around the time of the child molestation trials).
all this shit everyone is decidedly now calling "boogie" these days, he is the spark that set it all off. him and rick. that's it. everything else, though it's hot stuff for damn sure, is in it's shadow.
Interesting you say this. I've been thinking about how MJ was one of the last real, intergenerational pop stars we're ever going to see in our lifetime. He wasn't just big in the '80s, he practically helped define that era and for a variety of reasons, not the least of which has been changes in how media works today, it's just hard to imagine we'll see anything like that again.
Open question: besides MJ, who else is left with that kind of cultural "universality"? Madonna? Prince? (And again, notice how they're all '80s cats).
O-Dub, my brother!!!
MJ is so intergenerational that he is the only one of these "eighties cats" who was also a "seventies cat!"
Oh, no doubt. Believe me, I've spent the last 24 hours soaking far more in his 70s output than 80s. But MJ didn't define the 70s as a cultural figure in the same way he did the '80s.
He might not have been the leader like he was in the 80's but dude was the man before OTW.
I never said he was unwanted. The man had a niche. But you made the call - he wasn't the leader (except in the "black teen idol" category).
Dude was in the news for going to Studio 54 and dating Tatum O'Neal.
It later came out that they weren't "dating," they were merely "hanging out." MJ was digging on her, but was too shy to make a move; Tatum was oblivious. In the meantime, there was a cameraman in the house (all the pic I've ever seen of MJ & Tatum together were all taken on that same night).
Last I remember, after MJ got weird Tatum refused to have anything to do with him and wouldn't make any public comments (this would have been around the time of the child molestation trials).
Yeah, and at around this time MJ was sayin/spinnin the story that she was comin on to him, and he was too scurred to blap.
From Tatum O'Neal's book "A Paper Life":
I met him at the On the Rox, the club Lou Adler & Jack Nicholson opened upstairs from the Roxy on the Sunset Strip. Michael was around 17 at the time, about 5 years older than me, & he seemed very sheltered & fearful & lonely--not at all what you'd expect a world-renowned performer to be. As I recall, he didn't even know how to drive a car.
He gave me his number, & we started talking everyday--long drawn-out conversations that sometimes got so boring I would hand over the receiver to my friend Esme Gray. Michael would just keep on, thinking he was talking to me. His usual subject was sex. At 12 I didn't have much to say about sex--all I knew was that it went on, pretty steadily, in my father's room next to mine. But Michael was intensely curious about anything * everything sexual, though in an incredibly sweet & innocent way.
He was a huge star, but it seemed he barely even dated & knew little about life. He once came to my house & asked to come upstairs b/c he'd never been in a girl's bedroom before. He sat on the bed, & we kissed very briefly, but it was terribly awkward. For all my passionate crushes on people like Dustin Hoffman, I was just 12 & not at all ready for a real-life encounter. So I said,'I can't.' Michael, who was sweating profusely, seemed as intimidated as I was. He jumped up nervously & said,'Uh, gotta go.' That's the closest I ever got to Michael, which is why I'm amazed by his recent claim on national TV that I'd seduced him but he was too shy to carry it through. I absolutely adored Michael--as a friend--& I admire him to this day. I believe that he fell in love w/ me. I'm told that he wrote the song "She's Out of My Life" on his album Off the Wall for me. What an honor. At the time of the supposed seduction, I was barely pubescent, & what I'd seen of sex so far was unappealling & gross. It may have been Michael's fantasy that I'd seduce him--and it's a little sad that he cast himself as failing, even in his dream--but it just didn't happen.[/b]
The paper today was talking about the problems of dealing with success and pointed to Springsteen as someone who has handled success well. The paper seemed to think that Springsteen has never left his working class roots. I think that might be more of shtick than a reality, but he does seem to have his feet on the ground.
As others have noted, Springsteen wasn't a child star. I was thinking a lot about this and the only two comparable artists who began as kids and survived/thrived into adulthood are:
Stevie Wonder Celine Dion
It's questionable how well-adjusted Celine is (though she's nowhere near Jack-O era crazy). Stevie = pretty much all you could want from a pop genius with seemingly few drawbacks.
MJ just sounds like he had a really shitty childhood. Dude had a carry a lot on those shoulders.
I wonder if Stevie benefited from being part of the Detroit Motown family. Michael joined when Motown became an LA business. Of course Michael already had four years of gigging and recording before that.
Did Patti Austin have some kind of childhood career?
The other hugely successful child artist, actor not singer, is Ron Howard. Hollywood can be as hard on child as Rock N Roll.
Aretha also started performing young, but in a very sheltered gospel world and she struggled to get a hit her first 6 years as a pop singer.
I wish Stevie would do something like make a jazz lp or make a simple singer/songwriter lp. Seems like when he goes in the studio he feels the pressure to make another pop hit.
Did you all see the recent tribute to Stevie at the White House. Very nice.
does anyone have any good mixes for MJ available? I would really like to listen to a good collection of his music today and i figure strutters probably have some mixes out there they might be willing to share.
I know there's a flood of them, but here's mine anyway.
Dude was in the news for going to Studio 54 and dating Tatum O'Neal.
It later came out that they weren't "dating," they were merely "hanging out." MJ was digging on her, but was too shy to make a move; Tatum was oblivious. In the meantime, there was a cameraman in the house (all the pic I've ever seen of MJ & Tatum together were all taken on that same night).
Last I remember, after MJ got weird Tatum refused to have anything to do with him and wouldn't make any public comments (this would have been around the time of the child molestation trials).
Yeah, and at around this time MJ was sayin/spinnin the story that she was comin on to him, and he was too scurred to blap.
From Tatum O'Neal's book "A Paper Life":
I met him at the On the Rox, the club Lou Adler & Jack Nicholson opened upstairs from the Roxy on the Sunset Strip. Michael was around 17 at the time, about 5 years older than me, & he seemed very sheltered & fearful & lonely--not at all what you'd expect a world-renowned performer to be. As I recall, he didn't even know how to drive a car.
He gave me his number, & we started talking everyday--long drawn-out conversations that sometimes got so boring I would hand over the receiver to my friend Esme Gray. Michael would just keep on, thinking he was talking to me. His usual subject was sex. At 12 I didn't have much to say about sex--all I knew was that it went on, pretty steadily, in my father's room next to mine. But Michael was intensely curious about anything * everything sexual, though in an incredibly sweet & innocent way.
He was a huge star, but it seemed he barely even dated & knew little about life. He once came to my house & asked to come upstairs b/c he'd never been in a girl's bedroom before. He sat on the bed, & we kissed very briefly, but it was terribly awkward. For all my passionate crushes on people like Dustin Hoffman, I was just 12 & not at all ready for a real-life encounter. So I said,'I can't.' Michael, who was sweating profusely, seemed as intimidated as I was. He jumped up nervously & said,'Uh, gotta go.' That's the closest I ever got to Michael, which is why I'm amazed by his recent claim on national TV that I'd seduced him but he was too shy to carry it through. I absolutely adored Michael--as a friend--& I admire him to this day. I believe that he fell in love w/ me. I'm told that he wrote the song "She's Out of My Life" on his album Off the Wall for me. What an honor. At the time of the supposed seduction, I was barely pubescent, & what I'd seen of sex so far was unappealling & gross. It may have been Michael's fantasy that I'd seduce him--and it's a little sad that he cast himself as failing, even in his dream--but it just didn't happen.[/b]
Wait a minute - Tatum was only twelve years old at the time they met? And Michael was seventeen?
Well, that puts the story in a new light.
I've also read one gossip item (possibly untrue) that a 14-year-old Michael had the hots for Maureen McCormick (Marcia from The Brady Bunch). However, Donny Osmond supposedly beat him to the draw...
primo is the only one whose tribute mix includes 2 4 6 8... one of my favorite jackson 5 songs for damn sure and an underplayed album cut. well done. it's making me cry.
F*ck i really didn't want michael to go out like this. i wanted him to rise again and show the world his soul again. so sad.
it just seems so weird considering how many of those albums are out there.
this is what i keep saying, 11 million [/b] copies of off the wall sold and 40 million[/b] copies of thriller, so the price increases are due to an explosion in demand, i'll be willing to bet that the demand will cool down in under two weeks and the prices will return to normal soon after. All the people buying them for $100 or whatever are going to be incredibly ass-hurt when they start to see them in $5 bins again.
I just got a phone call from someone with an autographed copy of OTW.
Of course, they wanted a lot of money.
When I told them what I thought of them, they pleaded with me, "please - I'm unemployed, my house is getting foreclosed upon, and I just need to make some money."
It makes me sick.
Try searching Michael Jackson on craigslist - there are literally hundreds of listings, just today.
hahaha nice post JP, it really needed to be said. It's the record stores that are keepin' it real with MJs records, my local spot had someone come in who was blatantly gonna flip them on ebay as he wanted ALL of their stock of MJs lps, so they put up a sign saying 1 MJ lp max per customer.
---- Wishes he'd replaced his given away, "I Want You Back," 45 and "Thriller," LP while he had a million chances.
This is, yes, a small part of his passing, and totally self-centered. But, it is sick to watch people sell records that sold TENSOFMILLIONS of albums as raer because of an artist's death.
By the way, this is still tough to wrap my head around. Wife was out of town on thurs, and I left Friday and we both got back today. tonight around 6, as we're sorting clothes, I just blurted out, "I can't believe Michael Jackson is dead."
Her reply: "I was JUST thinking the same thing."
We then talked about his videos, from "Bille Jean," to, "In the Closet," and I even copped to my unabashed affinity to, "Earth Song". The last two minutes of that song, with the gospel choir KILL me, and always have. And now always will.
This is, yes, a small part of his passing, and totally self-centered. But, it is sick to watch people sell records that sold TENSOFMILLIONS of albums as raer because of an artist's death.
One thing about Michael Jackson LPs ... yeah, the $100 copies of "Thriller" are absurd and just a post-passing blip, but "Thriller" was still to this day one of the if not THE easiest used record to sell, and at a decent price. I can remember circa 2001 still not being able to keep a "Thriller" or "Off the Wall" in-stock for more than 48 hours at a time, and speaking to the manager of Looney Tunes in downtown Boston the day after MJ's passing, he said that while it was a record they would get in constantly, it would be gone in a day at $10 every time. Of course, that day a couple of people had come in at opening and bought out their stock, surely for the grippenflip.
hahaha nice post JP, it really needed to be said. It's the record stores that are keepin' it real with MJs records, my local spot had someone come in who was blatantly gonna flip them on ebay as he wanted ALL of their stock of MJs lps, so they put up a sign saying 1 MJ lp max per customer.
I wonder how long the "dead bounce" for any artist can really last for.
Comments
He was producing the Brothers Johnson, plus he had a few hits of his own in this period.
As others have noted, Springsteen wasn't a child star. I was thinking a lot about this and the only two comparable artists who began as kids and survived/thrived into adulthood are:
Stevie Wonder
Celine Dion
It's questionable how well-adjusted Celine is (though she's nowhere near Jack-O era crazy). Stevie = pretty much all you could want from a pop genius with seemingly few drawbacks.
MJ just sounds like he had a really shitty childhood. Dude had a carry a lot on those shoulders.
He might not have been the leader like he was in the 80's but dude was the man before OTW. All my older cousins had Afro MJ on thier wall in the 70's.
After the early Motown run he was still loved in his teenage years in LBE.
He never left the grid. He was still a teen idol and ahead of the pack.
Dude was in the news for going to Studio 54 and dating Tatum O'Neal.
And his role in the Wiz was a big deal. All before OTW.
I never said he was unwanted. The man had a niche. But you made the call - he wasn't the leader (except in the "black teen idol" category).
It later came out that they weren't "dating," they were merely "hanging out." MJ was digging on her, but was too shy to make a move; Tatum was oblivious. In the meantime, there was a cameraman in the house (all the pic I've ever seen of MJ & Tatum together were all taken on that same night).
Last I remember, after MJ got weird Tatum refused to have anything to do with him and wouldn't make any public comments (this would have been around the time of the child molestation trials).
Yeah, and at around this time MJ was sayin/spinnin the story that she was comin on to him, and he was too scurred to blap.
From Tatum O'Neal's book "A Paper Life":
I met him at the On the Rox, the club Lou Adler & Jack Nicholson opened upstairs from the Roxy on the Sunset Strip. Michael was around 17 at the time, about 5 years older than me, & he seemed very sheltered & fearful & lonely--not at all what you'd expect a world-renowned performer to be. As I recall, he didn't even know how to drive a car.
He gave me his number, & we started talking everyday--long drawn-out conversations that sometimes got so boring I would hand over the receiver to my friend Esme Gray. Michael would just keep on, thinking he was talking to me. His usual subject was sex. At 12 I didn't have much to say about sex--all I knew was that it went on, pretty steadily, in my father's room next to mine. But Michael was intensely curious about anything * everything sexual, though in an incredibly sweet & innocent way.
He was a huge star, but it seemed he barely even dated & knew little about life. He once came to my house & asked to come upstairs b/c he'd never been in a girl's bedroom before. He sat on the bed, & we kissed very briefly, but it was terribly awkward. For all my passionate crushes on people like Dustin Hoffman, I was just 12 & not at all ready for a real-life encounter. So I said,'I can't.' Michael, who was sweating profusely, seemed as intimidated as I was. He jumped up nervously & said,'Uh, gotta go.'
That's the closest I ever got to Michael, which is why I'm amazed by his recent claim on national TV that I'd seduced him but he was too shy to carry it through. I absolutely adored Michael--as a friend--& I admire him to this day. I believe that he fell in love w/ me. I'm told that he wrote the song "She's Out of My Life" on his album Off the Wall for me. What an honor.
At the time of the supposed seduction, I was barely pubescent, & what I'd seen of sex so far was unappealling & gross. It may have been Michael's fantasy that I'd seduce him--and it's a little sad that he cast himself as failing, even in his dream--but it just didn't happen.[/b]
I wonder if Stevie benefited from being part of the Detroit Motown family.
Michael joined when Motown became an LA business.
Of course Michael already had four years of gigging and recording before that.
Did Patti Austin have some kind of childhood career?
The other hugely successful child artist, actor not singer, is Ron Howard.
Hollywood can be as hard on child as Rock N Roll.
Aretha also started performing young, but in a very sheltered gospel world and she struggled to get a hit her first 6 years as a pop singer.
I wish Stevie would do something like make a jazz lp or make a simple singer/songwriter lp.
Seems like when he goes in the studio he feels the pressure to make another pop hit.
Did you all see the recent tribute to Stevie at the White House. Very nice.
http://doublestandardcrew.com/2009/06/26/richmond-soul-stew-62609-michael-jackson-tribute/
Wait a minute - Tatum was only twelve years old at the time they met? And Michael was seventeen?
Well, that puts the story in a new light.
I've also read one gossip item (possibly untrue) that a 14-year-old Michael had the hots for Maureen McCormick (Marcia from The Brady Bunch). However, Donny Osmond supposedly beat him to the draw...
http://www.tinyurl.com/lb9ltr
it's making me cry.
F*ck i really didn't want michael to go out like this. i wanted him to rise again and show the world his soul again. so sad.
At 34 mins into this mix: "Man, everybody dyin out this bitch"
F*ck.
I hope this guy never does either...
http://cgi.ebay.com/michael-jackson-off-...%3A1%7C294%3A50
I've gotta wonder if this is either
A.) someone who doesn't collect records and assumes they're all worth loot, or
B.) bogus bids.
Good for the seller if it's legit, but it just seems so weird considering how many of those albums are out there.
Of course, they wanted a lot of money.
When I told them what I thought of them, they pleaded with me, "please - I'm unemployed, my house is getting foreclosed upon, and I just need to make some money."
It makes me sick.
Try searching Michael Jackson on craigslist - there are literally hundreds of listings, just today.
then there's one I made:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/clt/1243632092.html
This is, yes, a small part of his passing, and totally self-centered. But, it is sick to watch people sell records that sold TENSOFMILLIONS of albums as raer because of an artist's death.
Her reply:
"I was JUST thinking the same thing."
We then talked about his videos, from "Bille Jean," to, "In the Closet," and I even copped to my unabashed affinity to, "Earth Song". The last two minutes of that song, with the gospel choir KILL me, and always have. And now always will.
Nice to have someone to share that with.
Memorabilia =/= Collectable
I wonder how long the "dead bounce" for any artist can really last for.
Did this happen to James?