Maroon 5 - Pop- White- Band, and that's the only similarity.
H&O got played at the Local Black Exp Party and not just because it was popular, like Cyndi Lauper.
This statement is problematic - first, because I think it shortchanges Maroon 5. They're a fairly soulful, "funky" white band, I wouldn't really call them pop at all and might even toss them into R&B if forced. They're not a rock band, certainly. When they were starting out they had R&B management, fwiw.
And if they don't get play at current LBE parties (what does that even mean) I'd say it's more about marketing and segmentation of the music game. What current white artists would get that play?
Justin Timberlake & Robin Thicke get more play in the LBE,(and Radio) but their not Rockish.
Maroon 5 doesnt get R&B Radio Play.
Right - but Timberlake and Thicke are completely traditional R&B acts, with traditional R&B production. There's no crossover there. What is a white crossover act that would get play?
Hall & Oates were "blue eyed soul", but I don't think you could call them "contemporary R&B" for their era. Not comparable to the black artists getting play on the R&B charts, and I think "crossover" is a decent term to describe the phenomenon.
Things are a lot more segmented now, in terms of sound and marketing.
Timberlake's boy band era wasnt gettin any Black Radio Crossover play.
Once he went solo then he got Black radio love. Isnt that crossover?
I don't really think so - he got production from the Neptunes and Timbaland, completely changed his personal style... it's hard to compare the music of his two solo records with that of N'Sync.
I don't really think so - he got production from the Neptunes and Timbaland, completely changed his personal style... it's hard to compare the music of his two solo records with that of N'Sync.
No doubt.
Isnt the Boy Band style he was doing compared to the Timbo/neptunes steez, the same jump as H&O from Sara Smiles/She's Gone to Method of Modern Love's Synth Pop steez? Arthur Baker amped their steez.
the duo would not record and release new material until 2002???s critically acclaimed Do It for Love. The album???s title song went to number 1 on the Billboard and R&R???s Adult Contemporary charts and remained there for 4 consecutive weeks.
2002 was a while ago, but at least it brings a comparison of H&O and modern acts closer to apples and apples.
The operative phrase in the above quote is "Adult Contemporary charts." Despite their LBE crossovers and hip-hop samplage, H&O, even in their heyday, were basically AC. It's just that in the 80's AC could move hella amouts of units and was more "pop" then it could be today. Like Jonny said, shit is segmented. How many y'all knew H&O were putting out new shit?
There's no real comparison of course, but of the candidates we've mentioned, I put forth Maroon 5 as the most viable because they are the most Adult Contemporary out of all of them. Again, if you're chilling in the dentist's office listening to the "Lite Mix Breeze 105" station, you're way more likely to hear Maroon 5 alongside H&O than Kanye, BEP, or whoever else.
B/W
As long as we're talking about crossovers...
When Robin Thicke's "Without You" was running things, that song was getting heavy burn on the grown folk's dusty/R&B station, the younger urban/rap/R&B station, AND the smooth jazz station. It may have been blowing up on the Lite/Contemporary stations too, but I don't listen to them.
It makes sense for the song, but that happens so rarely in this modern niche/segmented micro-marketed era, that I remember being surprised.
anyways bro, oh wait, check it out... so anyways "hall and BROates"... HAHA get it? f*cking hell... you look like you're getting attacked by a fuzzy alien... like in that movie alien exept the alien's made of pubes and it just jumped up and latched on your face like this...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH GET IT OFF! GET THE PUBE ALIEN OFF MY FACE!!! AHHHHH!!!!
hahahahahahahah
oates?
shit. this always happens.
sigh...
at least I'll always have this tastefully photographed picture of us from our trip to Thailand.
I love arguing with you guys. I am sitting here laughing out loud.
This thread started with a failed question who are todays "older guys doing lite pop".
Then the fun begins. The question gets defined as, who today is a totally cool duo with lots of top 40 hits, ten years of great records,loved by LBE and by hip youngsters?
Sorry, your pick only fits 4 of the 6 criteria. Proving that H&O were the greatest ever.
The question; who today is like somebody yesterday? is as ridicules as the, this artist vs that artist threads. Yet I never get tired of them. I would rather argue with all you all than work a single day.
See, this is a bit much. I think it would have been more badass to go with the simple "Hall" on one set of knuckles, and "Oates" on the other, a la Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
As popular as H&O were and on the radio all the time, they were FAR from Cultural Icons. Dudes were still some old[/b] white dudes playin good music.
??? Why do y'all keep harping on the fact that they were pushing thirty at the time? Like I said, half of the people selling records then were in their same age range! That was fairly standard back then - it wasn't unusual for acts to have five or six albums before hitting their stride...
Shoot, half the acts selling records NOW are the same age as Daryl & John THEN.
Pickwick, while the rock acts in the mid 80's were all "pushing 30", there were quite a few people listening to acts that were their age like LL Cool J at the time. And were not talkin bubblegum shit. The Rock/Pop charts werent the only act in town.
Even on the soul side, being in your thirties didn't make you a novelty act. Look at Luther Vandross, Jeffrey Osborne and Lionel Richie...those guys had already been up, down and around the block when they first caught on as solo acts in the '80s.
And with all due respect, your chronology is off.
By the mid-eighties, Hall & Oates' reign was over. LL Cool J and them were coming in just as H&O were going out, so the comparison isn't really correct. They weren't contemporaries of each other.
U can swap Kurtis Blow w/ LL then. Im just sayn that even if the pop landscape was made up of 30ish dudes, Hip Hop was out there, and we saw H&O as Grown Ass Men unlike the Fearless Four.
Mid-80's???
Released in late 1984, the first single off the LP, Out of Touch, became the group's sixth Number 1 smash hit on December 8, 1984 receiving tremendous airplay. "Method of Modern Love", which debuted on the pop charts while "Out of Touch" was at Number 1, reached Number 5 in February 1985.
If you remember, after 1985 they broke up (not counting a temporary late-80's reunion).
As popular as H&O were and on the radio all the time, they were FAR from Cultural Icons. Dudes were still some old[/b] white dudes playin good music.
??? Why do y'all keep harping on the fact that they were pushing thirty at the time? Like I said, half of the people selling records then were in their same age range! That was fairly standard back then - it wasn't unusual for acts to have five or six albums before hitting their stride...
Shoot, half the acts selling records NOW are the same age as Daryl & John THEN.
Pickwick, while the rock acts in the mid 80's were all "pushing 30", there were quite a few people listening to acts that were their age like LL Cool J at the time. And were not talkin bubblegum shit. The Rock/Pop charts werent the only act in town.
Even on the soul side, being in your thirties didn't make you a novelty act. Look at Luther Vandross, Jeffrey Osborne and Lionel Richie...those guys had already been up, down and around the block when they first caught on as solo acts in the '80s.
And with all due respect, your chronology is off.
By the mid-eighties, Hall & Oates' reign was over. LL Cool J and them were coming in just as H&O were going out, so the comparison isn't really correct. They weren't contemporaries of each other.
U can swap Kurtis Blow w/ LL then. Im just sayn that even if the pop landscape was made up of 30ish dudes, Hip Hop was out there, and we saw H&O as Grown Ass Men unlike the Fearless Four.
Mid-80's???
Released in late 1984, the first single off the LP, Out of Touch, became the group's sixth Number 1 smash hit on December 8, 1984 receiving tremendous airplay. "Method of Modern Love", which debuted on the pop charts while "Out of Touch" was at Number 1, reached Number 5 in February 1985.
If you remember, after 1985 they broke up (not counting a temporary late-80's reunion).
As popular as H&O were and on the radio all the time, they were FAR from Cultural Icons. Dudes were still some old[/b] white dudes playin good music.
??? Why do y'all keep harping on the fact that they were pushing thirty at the time? Like I said, half of the people selling records then were in their same age range! That was fairly standard back then - it wasn't unusual for acts to have five or six albums before hitting their stride...
Shoot, half the acts selling records NOW are the same age as Daryl & John THEN.
Pickwick, while the rock acts in the mid 80's were all "pushing 30", there were quite a few people listening to acts that were their age like LL Cool J at the time. And were not talkin bubblegum shit. The Rock/Pop charts werent the only act in town.
Even on the soul side, being in your thirties didn't make you a novelty act. Look at Luther Vandross, Jeffrey Osborne and Lionel Richie...those guys had already been up, down and around the block when they first caught on as solo acts in the '80s.
And with all due respect, your chronology is off.
By the mid-eighties, Hall & Oates' reign was over. LL Cool J and them were coming in just as H&O were going out, so the comparison isn't really correct. They weren't contemporaries of each other.
U can swap Kurtis Blow w/ LL then. Im just sayn that even if the pop landscape was made up of 30ish dudes, Hip Hop was out there, and we saw H&O as Grown Ass Men unlike the Fearless Four.
Mid-80's???
Released in late 1984, the first single off the LP, Out of Touch, became the group's sixth Number 1 smash hit on December 8, 1984 receiving tremendous airplay. "Method of Modern Love", which debuted on the pop charts while "Out of Touch" was at Number 1, reached Number 5 in February 1985.
If you remember, after 1985 they broke up (not counting a temporary late-80's reunion).
True '80-'84.
And when I think of mid-'80s, I'm thinking '86-'87 - H&O's hiatus period.
See, this is a bit much. I think it would have been more badass to go with the simple "Hall" on one set of knuckles, and "Oates" on the other, a la Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
See, this is a bit much. I think it would have been more badass to go with the simple "Hall" on one set of knuckles, and "Oates" on the other, a la Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
He doesn't have 11 fingers.
Simple. He could just get rid of the "e" in Oates and he'll be good to go.
See, this is a bit much. I think it would have been more badass to go with the simple "Hall" on one set of knuckles, and "Oates" on the other, a la Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
He doesn't have 11 fingers.
Simple. He could just get rid of the "e" in Oates and he'll be good to go.
IMO, Robin thicke is definitely the modern day H&O. Dudes just don't wanta admit it cause they're feelin the dude, but even "I can't go for that" will still get a dancefloor.
Can we agree on a set of characteristics that make a group "Hall and Oates-like"? Then it'll be easier to find a modern group that meets those criteria.
This has been proposed by LaserWolf:
"1) totally cool... 2) duo... 3) lots of top 40 hits 4) ten years of great records 5) loved by LBE... 6) and by hip youngsters?"
I don't think 'duo' is necessary. I don't think 'lots of top 40 hits' is necessary--but I do think they have to have a few hits and the expectation of more in the next 5-10 years. Ditto ten years of great records.
So are we really just looking for a hit-maker loved by the LBE and HYs? It's more than that, right?
"1) totally cool... 2) duo... 3) lots of top 40 hits 4) 20[/b] years of great records 5) loved by LUK[/b]E... 6) and by hip youngsters?" 7) 50% mustachioed.
Can we agree on a set of characteristics that make a group "Hall and Oates-like"? Then it'll be easier to find a modern group that meets those criteria.
This has been proposed by LaserWolf:
"1) totally cool... 2) duo... 3) lots of top 40 hits 4) ten years of great records 5) loved by LBE... 6) and by hip youngsters?"
I don't think 'duo' is necessary. I don't think 'lots of top 40 hits' is necessary--but I do think they have to have a few hits and the expectation of more in the next 5-10 years. Ditto ten years of great records.
So are we really just looking for a hit-maker loved by the LBE and HYs? It's more than that, right?
i would propose:
7) 50% mustachioed.
I have a problem with #6 on your list. Hip youngsters right now might like H&O, but someone who considered themselves "hip" in 1982 was more likely listening to Talking Heads or Elvis Costello or something like that. Hall and Oates were too pop for the trendsetters. That is something else that has changed in the last 25 years, hip/trendy music can hit the pop charts. Probably Soundscan related.
Can we agree on a set of characteristics that make a group "Hall and Oates-like"? Then it'll be easier to find a modern group that meets those criteria.
This has been proposed by LaserWolf:
"1) totally cool... 2) duo... 3) lots of top 40 hits 4) ten years of great records 5) loved by LBE... 6) and by hip youngsters?"
I don't think 'duo' is necessary. I don't think 'lots of top 40 hits' is necessary--but I do think they have to have a few hits and the expectation of more in the next 5-10 years. Ditto ten years of great records.
So are we really just looking for a hit-maker loved by the LBE and HYs? It's more than that, right?
i would propose:
7) 50% mustachioed.
I have a problem with #6 on your list. Hip youngsters right now might like H&O, but someone who considered themselves "hip" in 1982 was more likely listening to Talking Heads or Elvis Costello or something like that. Hall and Oates were too pop for the trendsetters. That is something else that has changed in the last 25 years, hip/trendy music can hit the pop charts. Probably Soundscan related.
Even if my HIP peers were into other things and didnt have H&O in their walkman, that doesnt mean they would leave the dancefloor once Maneater came on. I dont think they were dismissed by 80's Hipsters at all. Hip Youngsters is the term. Not 30 year old Rockists still stuck in the late 70's. Of course none of my peers were talmbout goin to see them live. Or rippin out the posters in Teen Beat like Duran Duran, or talmbout Meat Is Murder. Talking Heads was POP. The Hip kids followed the underground shit as well as the POP shit. It was MTV time.
"What/Who was Hip in 80-85?"
b/w
I never heard the term hipster thrown around in the 80's. So like the OG question, its flawed to think that the same animal existed then/now.
Can we agree on a set of characteristics that make a group "Hall and Oates-like"? Then it'll be easier to find a modern group that meets those criteria.
This has been proposed by LaserWolf:
"1) totally cool... 2) duo... 3) lots of top 40 hits 4) ten years of great records 5) loved by LBE... 6) and by hip youngsters?"
I don't think 'duo' is necessary. I don't think 'lots of top 40 hits' is necessary--but I do think they have to have a few hits and the expectation of more in the next 5-10 years. Ditto ten years of great records.
So are we really just looking for a hit-maker loved by the LBE and HYs? It's more than that, right?
i would propose:
7) 50% mustachioed.
I have a problem with #6 on your list. Hip youngsters right now might like H&O, but someone who considered themselves "hip" in 1982 was more likely listening to Talking Heads or Elvis Costello or something like that. Hall and Oates were too pop for the trendsetters. That is something else that has changed in the last 25 years, hip/trendy music can hit the pop charts. Probably Soundscan related.
Blondie were 'hip and trendy' and a huge selling act, no?
I think if there's been a sea change, it's more the fact that it stopped being cool, or even acceptable, to be main stream. Either as an artist or a music fan.
I still say 2009 Kanye = 1982 Hall and oates. Except Black Eyed Peas is a good choice too.
H2O = 808 & Heartbreak?
This Kanye/Hall & Oates equivalency doesn't work for me. A significant part of Hall & Oates's whole 1982 cachet was that they had this slightly unusual/uncool dynamic, but had a great sound that resonated with blacks, Puerto Ricans, and the white people, too. Kanye is a general vice versa; a lot of people resistant to his 2009 sound end up getting pulled in anyway because his cool is considered pretty ironclad.
but see other people are saying that H&A were cool in 82. Didn't you say that earlier yourself? That they look dorky haha funny now but in 82 that was the shit?
Comments
Timberlake's boy band era wasnt gettin any Black Radio Crossover play.
Once he went solo then he got Black radio love. Isnt that crossover?
No doubt.
Isnt the Boy Band style he was doing compared to the Timbo/neptunes steez, the same jump as H&O from Sara Smiles/She's Gone to Method of Modern Love's Synth Pop steez? Arthur Baker amped their steez.
2002 was a while ago, but at least it brings a comparison of H&O and modern acts closer to apples and apples.
The operative phrase in the above quote is "Adult Contemporary charts." Despite their LBE crossovers and hip-hop samplage, H&O, even in their heyday, were basically AC. It's just that in the 80's AC could move hella amouts of units and was more "pop" then it could be today. Like Jonny said, shit is segmented. How many y'all knew H&O were putting out new shit?
There's no real comparison of course, but of the candidates we've mentioned, I put forth Maroon 5 as the most viable because they are the most Adult Contemporary out of all of them. Again, if you're chilling in the dentist's office listening to the "Lite Mix Breeze 105" station, you're way more likely to hear Maroon 5 alongside H&O than Kanye, BEP, or whoever else.
B/W
As long as we're talking about crossovers...
When Robin Thicke's "Without You" was running things, that song was getting heavy burn on the grown folk's dusty/R&B station, the younger urban/rap/R&B station, AND the smooth jazz station. It may have been blowing up on the Lite/Contemporary stations too, but I don't listen to them.
It makes sense for the song, but that happens so rarely in this modern niche/segmented micro-marketed era, that I remember being surprised.
DOOBY-DOO-DOOT-I'M SHAVING MY FACEY-FACE
DOOBY-DOO-DOOT-I'M THE ONE WITH NO STACHEY-STACHE
oh hey guys, I'm Daryll Hall, of the hit band Hall and Oates! I was just shaving my face. I was thinking about growing a goatee, what do you think?
ya see, I don't want to look a total douche like my poodle-haired partner here, John. Whats up John!
SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW YOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUU
DOOBY-DOO-DOOT-BE-DOOOOOOOOOO
anyways bro, oh wait, check it out... so anyways "hall and BROates"... HAHA get it? f*cking hell... you look like you're getting attacked by a fuzzy alien... like in that movie alien exept the alien's made of pubes and it just jumped up and latched on your face like this...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH GET IT OFF! GET THE PUBE ALIEN OFF MY FACE!!! AHHHHH!!!!
hahahahahahahah
oates?
shit. this always happens.
sigh...
at least I'll always have this tastefully photographed picture of us from our trip to Thailand.
I am sitting here laughing out loud.
This thread started with a failed question who are todays "older guys doing lite pop".
Then the fun begins. The question gets defined as, who today is a totally cool duo with lots of top 40 hits, ten years of great records,loved by LBE and by hip youngsters?
Sorry, your pick only fits 4 of the 6 criteria.
Proving that H&O were the greatest ever.
The question; who today is like somebody yesterday? is as ridicules as the, this artist vs that artist threads.
Yet I never get tired of them.
I would rather argue with all you all than work a single day.
See, this is a bit much. I think it would have been more badass to go with the simple "Hall" on one set of knuckles, and "Oates" on the other, a la Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.
If you remember, after 1985 they broke up (not counting a temporary late-80's reunion).
True '80-'84.
And when I think of mid-'80s, I'm thinking '86-'87 - H&O's hiatus period.
He doesn't have 11 fingers.
Simple. He could just get rid of the "e" in Oates and he'll be good to go.
But, he'd always know...
IMO, Robin thicke is definitely the modern day H&O. Dudes just don't wanta admit it cause they're feelin the dude, but even "I can't go for that" will still get a dancefloor.
- spidey
This has been proposed by LaserWolf:
"1) totally cool...
2) duo...
3) lots of top 40 hits
4) ten years of great records
5) loved by LBE...
6) and by hip youngsters?"
I don't think 'duo' is necessary. I don't think 'lots of top 40 hits' is necessary--but I do think they have to have a few hits and the expectation of more in the next 5-10 years. Ditto ten years of great records.
So are we really just looking for a hit-maker loved by the LBE and HYs? It's more than that, right?
i would propose:
7) 50% mustachioed.
So Madonna duetting with Susan Boyle would be over-qualified for this classification?
7 out of 7:
Everything But the Girl
this is truth.
I'm sure there must be plenty of little known indie acts with soul influences, that I just don't know about. I guess that maybe voids them anyway.
But why are there no longer any quality pop orientated bands? There's got to still be a market for it.
I have a problem with #6 on your list. Hip youngsters right now might like H&O, but someone who considered themselves "hip" in 1982 was more likely listening to Talking Heads or Elvis Costello or something like that. Hall and Oates were too pop for the trendsetters. That is something else that has changed in the last 25 years, hip/trendy music can hit the pop charts. Probably Soundscan related.
Even if my HIP peers were into other things and didnt have H&O in their walkman, that doesnt mean they would leave the dancefloor once Maneater came on. I dont think they were dismissed by 80's Hipsters at all.
Hip Youngsters is the term. Not 30 year old Rockists still stuck in the late 70's.
Of course none of my peers were talmbout goin to see them live. Or rippin out the posters in Teen Beat like Duran Duran, or talmbout Meat Is Murder. Talking Heads was POP. The Hip kids followed the underground shit as well as the POP shit. It was MTV time.
"What/Who was Hip in 80-85?"
b/w
I never heard the term hipster thrown around in the 80's. So like the OG question, its flawed to think that the same animal existed then/now.
Blondie were 'hip and trendy' and a huge selling act, no?
I think if there's been a sea change, it's more the fact that it stopped being cool, or even acceptable, to be main stream. Either as an artist or a music fan.
I still say 2009 Kanye = 1982 Hall and oates. Except Black Eyed Peas is a good choice too.
H2O = 808 & Heartbreak?
seems prototypical soulstrut to me. perfect.
The animal existed, it's just that that name wasn't being used