Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
As for our theme, it was actually written near the end of 71, early 72, was released in Promo in late 72 and the official release was early 73. One more thing, when playing the bass guitar, the notes that make up the progression are very easily reached without having to move positions. Oh yeah Can uses a 1 bar phrase, the carat never used less than 4 bar phrasing and sometimes 16bar phrasing."
I think Bruce may have the year info wrong - I don't know why discogs.com has "Ege Bamyasi" coming out in 1973; most of the other sources I've seen say 1972 but if both songs did come out in 1972, it becomes less likely that either could have influenced one another.
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
...and if that's the case, whoever penned "Let It Be Me" should sue the writers of the Jackson Five's "I'll Be There." You could do both of those songs as part of a medley, and they'd fit right together.
There aren't but so many notes in the scale, and it's possible that melodies will repeat from writer to writer without either party knowing it. In the case of Can vs. 24K, if either band said they'd never heard the other group's song, I'd believe them.
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
...and if that's the case, whoever penned "Let It Be Me" should sue the writers of the Jackson Five's "I'll Be There." You could do both of those songs as part of a medley, and they'd fit right together.
There aren't but so many notes in the scale, and it's possible that melodies will repeat from writer to writer without either party knowing it. In the case of Can vs. 24K, if either band said they'd never heard the other group's song, I'd believe them.
In the case of "My Sweet Lord" though, it's not just about the melody repeating - the entire song arrangement follows "He's So Fine", including into the chorus where the melody switches up.
Something like the Can/24CB situation is different - what you have there is, essentially, a very similar riff but the arrangements aren't the same at all.
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
One of my favorite scenes in Cadillac Records is when Chuck Berry hears "Surfin' USA" on the radio, and he's like "THAT'S MY SONG! THOSE LITTLE BITCHES STOLE MY SONG!" ... one can only imagine what it must be like to hear such blatant theft of your own work like that.
Hate to disappoint you guys, but without any real concern for the outcome of this investigation I can't produce any of the shamefulness you speak of. I'll keep reading though, and I'm gonna try to do something that will work for you, but I can't make any promises.
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
One of my favorite scenes in Cadillac Records is when Chuck Berry hears "Surfin' USA" on the radio, and he's like "THAT'S MY SONG! THOSE LITTLE BITCHES STOLE MY SONG!" ... one can only imagine what it must be like to hear such blatant theft of your own work like that.
Now think about what all the older cats were feeling when they heard their shit SAMPLED in hit hip-hop songs on the radio! Especially the 95% of them that never got a dime for it...
Trip: It was a famous copyright case - Harrison was accused of ripping off "He's So Fine" and the courts agreed that he had, indeed, taken the arrangement. If you listen to the two songs, side by side, it's blatant - practically the entire "My Sweet Lord" arrangement follows "He's So Fine."
...and if that's the case, whoever penned "Let It Be Me" should sue the writers of the Jackson Five's "I'll Be There." You could do both of those songs as part of a medley, and they'd fit right together.
There aren't but so many notes in the scale, and it's possible that melodies will repeat from writer to writer without either party knowing it. In the case of Can vs. 24K, if either band said they'd never heard the other group's song, I'd believe them.
In the case of "My Sweet Lord" though, it's not just about the melody repeating - the entire song arrangement follows "He's So Fine", including into the chorus where the melody switches up.
Something like the Can/24CB situation is different - what you have there is, essentially, a very similar riff but the arrangements aren't the same at all.
I think Bruce may have the year info wrong - I don't know why discogs.com has "Ege Bamyasi" coming out in 1973; most of the other sources I've seen say 1972 but if both songs did come out in 1972, it becomes less likely that either could have influenced one another.
Ege Bamyasi came out in 1972. Vitamin C/I'm so green single also came out in 72.
although that was the only good CAN album in my opinion.
Straight blasphemous. Although, I almost agree with you. Tago Mago and Future Days are the only other albums I ride for. Multitracking killed it for them (or Damo leaving killed it, but both happened at the same time). Future Days is one of my all time favorite records. Many three hour car rides have consisted of listening to that album 4 or 5 times.
Kanye sampled/reworked another track off of Ege Bamyasi for the Drunk and Hot Girls song.
Vitamin C is a B-boy staple.
Lots of people have sampled Can. Can sampled themselves.
I was talking with a friend of mine who's finishing up his musicology degree at UCLA and he had listened to both songs as well and thought that while they shared similarities, the arrangements and chord progressions were sufficiently different (and it didn't come anywhere close to being legally similar).
So wouldn't be surprised if there was some exchange of influence but he also thought one could make a reasonable case that any similarities are purely coincidental.
well the whole legality/copyright issue is pretty moot seeing how we are not talking about anything that can be copyrighted, correct? You cannot copyright a rhythm from my understanding, only melody or a "song"...there is no question of similar melody...just a couple of rhythm parts(drums and bass) if a rhythm could be copyrighted then Bo Diddley would have been the most litigious/paid musician in the world...I mean how many songs have his buh buhbuh buh buh dump rhythm? Thousands.
I hear what you're saying but a bassline melody can be both a rhythm AND melody, no? If you had a bassline that follows a discernible arrangement and someone takes and copies that same arrangement for another song, couldn't that be grounds for a copyright issue?
I dont know...I know this is an example that pre-dates most musical copyright cases, but Otis Redding's horn hook from Mr. Pitiful was reused in many soul tunes of the era (most notably BB Brown "I Weep", Bobby McClures "Love Coming down on me" and many others) as well...I dont know if things like basslines and horn charts are/should be seen has the "meat" of the song, just merely musical accessories...of course in a lot of modern pop compisitions these days are made up of a bunch of "accessories", rather than one single identifable component...perhaps?
My first instinct is to look for a common ancestor, since "Vitamin C" sounds so...funky for Can."
Ha!
... and the hunt begins....
This thread is approaching Hawkeye level nerdery.
Personally, I think the similarities are nothing more than a coincidence, but I'll be to see what you guys can come up with.
I'd sooner let the thread die myself. When I saw it at the top of the lineup I was like, "damn, after three pages they're STILL trying to milk this topic dry?"
My first instinct is to look for a common ancestor, since "Vitamin C" sounds so...funky for Can."
Ha!
... and the hunt begins....
This thread is approaching Hawkeye level nerdery.
Personally, I think the similarities are nothing more than a coincidence, but I'll be to see what you guys can come up with.
I'd sooner let the thread die myself. When I saw it at the top of the lineup I was like, "damn, after three pages they're STILL trying to milk this topic dry?"
Would you believe its been at least the 3rd thread we've had on this?
As far as a common ancestor: I would really hope someone on here would've heard it by now... it just doesn't seem likely that something known enough that both groups could be aware of it would've slipped under the Strut Collective's radar.
Comments
"after checking thier discography, the songs came out the same year. check this link:
http://www.discogs.com/Can-Ege-Bamyasi/release/1086101
As for our theme, it was actually written near the end of 71, early 72, was released in Promo in late 72 and the official release was early 73. One more thing, when playing the bass guitar, the notes that make up the progression are very easily reached without having to move positions. Oh yeah Can uses a 1 bar phrase, the carat never used less than 4 bar phrasing and sometimes 16bar phrasing."
I think Bruce may have the year info wrong - I don't know why discogs.com has "Ege Bamyasi" coming out in 1973; most of the other sources I've seen say 1972 but if both songs did come out in 1972, it becomes less likely that either could have influenced one another.
...and if that's the case, whoever penned "Let It Be Me" should sue the writers of the Jackson Five's "I'll Be There." You could do both of those songs as part of a medley, and they'd fit right together.
There aren't but so many notes in the scale, and it's possible that melodies will repeat from writer to writer without either party knowing it. In the case of Can vs. 24K, if either band said they'd never heard the other group's song, I'd believe them.
In the case of "My Sweet Lord" though, it's not just about the melody repeating - the entire song arrangement follows "He's So Fine", including into the chorus where the melody switches up.
Something like the Can/24CB situation is different - what you have there is, essentially, a very similar riff but the arrangements aren't the same at all.
One of my favorite scenes in Cadillac Records is when Chuck Berry hears
"Surfin' USA" on the radio, and he's like "THAT'S MY SONG! THOSE LITTLE
BITCHES STOLE MY SONG!" ... one can only imagine what it must be like to
hear such blatant theft of your own work like that.
Hate to disappoint you guys, but without any real concern for the outcome of this investigation I can't produce any of the shamefulness you speak of. I'll keep reading though, and I'm gonna try to do something that will work for you, but I can't make any promises.
Now think about what all the older cats were feeling when they heard their shit SAMPLED in hit hip-hop songs on the radio! Especially the 95% of them that never got a dime for it...
Ege Bamyasi came out in 1972. Vitamin C/I'm so green single also came out in 72.
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
FOODSTAMPS
24 Carat Black Gold = Sampled by half the planet including THE GOD RAKIM.....
I roll with 24K..although that was the only good CAN album in my opinion.
Straight blasphemous. Although, I almost agree with you. Tago Mago and Future Days are the only other albums I ride for. Multitracking killed it for them (or Damo leaving killed it, but both happened at the same time). Future Days is one of my all time favorite records. Many three hour car rides have consisted of listening to that album 4 or 5 times.
Kanye sampled/reworked another track off of Ege Bamyasi for the Drunk and Hot Girls song.
Vitamin C is a B-boy staple.
Lots of people have sampled Can. Can sampled themselves.
So wouldn't be surprised if there was some exchange of influence but he also thought one could make a reasonable case that any similarities are purely coincidental.
I dont know what I am trying to say
There are like 5 BAN-able offenses in this post.
Ahhhh yes... it feels like home again.
"It's hard to believe that this is coincidence - that minor-key arpeggiated riff is not that common a gesture in soul.
My first instinct is to look for a common ancestor, since "Vitamin C" sounds so...funky for Can."
Ha!
This thread is approaching Hawkeye level nerdery.
Personally, I think the similarities are nothing more than a coincidence, but I'll be
I'd sooner let the thread die myself. When I saw it at the top of the lineup I was like, "damn, after three pages they're STILL trying to milk this topic dry?"
Hey, I can dig it. Better that than bacon appreciation threads or favorite toothpaste inquiries.
BTW, does anyone know what the "Nas Is Like" sample is?
Would you believe its been at least the 3rd thread we've had on this?
As far as a common ancestor: I would really hope someone on here would've heard it by now... it just doesn't seem likely that something known enough that both groups could be aware of it would've slipped under the Strut Collective's radar.
neither group were superstars, so if one band wouldn't have heard of the other, we shouldnt be surprised.
im not saying they COULDNT have, but going by the law of averages, i dont think so