DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Let say there is that "Perception", there is a difference in the cultural spheres that supported/cultivated say Kool & The Gang's Light Of The Worlds vs. Second Helping by Lynyrd Skynyrd.
Oh, no doubt. I'm not saying there weren't different spheres but I also think these can get overstated in hindsight, to the point where "rock" in the '70s becomes seemingly an all-White affair which I don't think sounds remotely correct even if it's accepted conventional wisdom.
I'm with Oliver here. I've no idea if there were black households where both Light Of Worlds and Second Helping would get comparable needletime, but as a broad measure of what I was listening to when I was 14, that covers it as well as anything else. Maybe substitute Straight Shooter or Wish You Were Here for Second Helping and perhaps Gratitude for Light of Worlds, but even if it wasn't going one way so much, there was certainly plenty going the other way.
I think the reason that Billboard briefly dropped the R&B/Race charts was they were 0r appeared racist. The unintended results was some Black artists that would have charted R&B were not charting at all. So the chart was renamed and reinstated.
The way I heard it was that Billboard briefly dropped their R&B charts (they had LONG since dropped the "race" term by then) because it looked like black and white audiences were buying the same things. This was in late '63.
By the time the chart was reinstated in early '65, the soul revolution had already taken hold, and for every Motown or Stax artist who was crossing over, there was an O.V. Wright or a Walter Jackson whose records never got past the bottom 60 on the pop 100. So, the rhythm & blues listings came back, to accomodate the O.V. Wrights who sold the most in the black communities.
The people who view Billie Holiday as a Rock n Roll artist could be the Janis Joplin fans. Over the years I've noticed that if you've inspired a rock heavyweight, you're considered almost a rock figure in your own right (no matter what type of music you play). Look at Ravi Shankar, he inspired a Beatle to pick up the sitar and now his name has become synonymous with rock n roll.
I like Woody Guthrie as much as the next guy and even I had to wonder what he was doing in the "early influences" category. As best as I can tell, his rock & roll lineage stops with Bob Dylan. Maybe Springsteen, maybe his son Arlo, but I can't think of too much more. Maybe in folk, but not rock.
That's not what I think, that's what it is. The only other art-form that's just as popular (or more popular) is hip-hop and once you do your research, it all traces back to the same lineage.
There is so much that is fundamentally wrong with this assertion.
The people who view Billie Holiday as a Rock n Roll artist could be the Janis Joplin fans. Over the years I've noticed that if you've inspired a rock heavyweight, you're considered almost a rock figure in your own right (no matter what type of music you play). Look at Ravi Shankar, he inspired a Beatle to pick up the sitar and now his name has become synonymous with rock n roll.
I like Woody Guthrie as much as the next guy and even I had to wonder what he was doing in the "early influences" category. As best as I can tell, his rock & roll lineage stops with Bob Dylan. Maybe Springsteen, maybe his son Arlo, but I can't think of too much more. Maybe in folk, but not rock.
How many fans of Billie Holiday "perceive" her as a Rock-N-Roll artist?
She lived pretty much a rock'n'roll life I would say.
Anyone who does drugs lives a R&R life?
What kind of bullshit umbrella statement is this?
So all those Jazz cats on heroin in the 50's are now Rock N Rollers?
Bobby DeBarge is a R&Roller?
DJ Screw is a Rock n Roller?
What are you getting so uptight about son?! Have you got no sense of humor? Stop taking everything so seriously. All I said was Billie Holiday lived a pretty rough life unlike most jazz vocalists. So yeah, I would say she was pretty much rock'n'roll.
Comments
brass construction vs..
roy ayers vs...
crown heights affair vs..
chicago vs. blood sweat & tears.
all i know is kool and the gang got some of the illlllest breaks.
played out or not.
jungle jazz drums.
I'm with Oliver here. I've no idea if there were black households where both Light Of Worlds and Second Helping would get comparable needletime, but as a broad measure of what I was listening to when I was 14, that covers it as well as anything else. Maybe substitute Straight Shooter or Wish You Were Here for Second Helping and perhaps Gratitude for Light of Worlds, but even if it wasn't going one way so much, there was certainly plenty going the other way.
The way I heard it was that Billboard briefly dropped their R&B charts (they had LONG since dropped the "race" term by then) because it looked like black and white audiences were buying the same things. This was in late '63.
By the time the chart was reinstated in early '65, the soul revolution had already taken hold, and for every Motown or Stax artist who was crossing over, there was an O.V. Wright or a Walter Jackson whose records never got past the bottom 60 on the pop 100. So, the rhythm & blues listings came back, to accomodate the O.V. Wrights who sold the most in the black communities.
I like Woody Guthrie as much as the next guy and even I had to wonder what he was doing in the "early influences" category. As best as I can tell, his rock & roll lineage stops with Bob Dylan. Maybe Springsteen, maybe his son Arlo, but I can't think of too much more. Maybe in folk, but not rock.
There is so much that is fundamentally wrong with this assertion.
Jesus Christ.
I'd argue that he was JPUSA-style Loner Folk. This bootleg I've got of him sounds like Elliott Smith or Nick Drake. You know: the same sound.
Why you got to forget Billy Bragg like that?
She lived pretty much a rock'n'roll life I would say.
Anyone who does drugs lives a R&R life?
What kind of bullshit umbrella statement is this?
So all those Jazz cats on heroin in the 50's are now Rock N Rollers?
Bobby DeBarge is a R&Roller?
DJ Screw is a Rock n Roller?
What are you getting so uptight about son?!
Have you got no sense of humor?
Stop taking everything so seriously. All I said was Billie Holiday lived a pretty rough life unlike most jazz vocalists. So yeah, I would say she was pretty much rock'n'roll.