b,121The terrorist in the Alaska State Legislature are attacking her unfairly because she is a woman and they are sexist.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Also: Liberal media bias!
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Correct. The media by and large have completely misreported what has happened. The alaskan legislature has not found palin guilty of anything. All they have done is vote to release a report delivered to them by a lawyer hired by Hollis french(the guy who promised an "october surprise" for the McCain ticket before a single witness had even been interviewed)
b,121
b,121To assess the general quality of the report needs only a cursory look. I quote from the report below:
b,121
b,121"...it is noteworthy than in almost every contact with subordinate employees, Mr. Palin's comments were couched in terms of his desire to see trooper wooten fired for reasons that had nothing to do with fear. His comments were always couched in terms that he was a bad trooper..."
b,121
b,121In the very next paragraph he relies on this to conclude
b,121
b,121"that such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the palin's real motivation: to get Tropper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons."
b,121
b,121Let that marinade in the think box for a while. He accepts todd palins complaints about wooten's poor professional conduct as his true motivation in order to dismiss the idea that the palin's were motivated by their fear of Wooten, and then immediately discards that motive in order to posit that they were actually motivated by "personal family related reasons". Something is either true or it isn't. You cannot simultaneously accept something as true to disprove one thing and reject it as false to prove another.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121I think you've misread this, and quoted selectively in an attempt to make a point that isn't there.
b,121
b,121He doesn't accept the fact that Todd Palin's concerns about Wooten's poor professional conduct was the true motivation in seeking to get him fired. He is pointing out that while on the one hand the Palin's stated that they feared Wooten, on the other hand their actions (in this case Todd Palin's contact with subordinate employees) suggest this was not the case.
b,121
b,121Try reading these three paragraphs again:
b,121
b,121"Governor Palin has stated publicly that she and her family feared Trooper Wooten. Yet the evidence presented has been inconsistent with such claims of fear. The testimony from Trooper Wheeler, who was part of her security detail from the start, was that shortly after elected to office, she ordered a substantial reduction in manpoer in her personal protection detail in both Anchorage and Juneau, an act that is inconsistent with a desire to avoid harm from Trooper Wooten or others. Moreover, assumiung that Trooper Wooten was ever inclined to attack Governor Palin or a family member, logic dictates that getting him fired would accomplish nothing to eliminate the potential for harm to her or her family. On the contrary, it might just precipitate some retaliatory conduct on his part. Causing Wooten to loose his job would not have a de-escalated the situation, or provided her or her family with greater security.
b,121
b,121"Finally, it is noteworthy that in almost every contact with subordinate employees, Mr. Palin's comments were couched in terms of his desire to see Trooper Wooten fired for reasons that had nothing to do with fear. His comments were always couched in terms that he was a bad Trooper, that he was not a good recruiting image for AST, that his discipline amounted to nothing more than a slap on the wrist, that nothing had happened to him following the administrative investigation, and so forth. According to interview notes form the Attorney General who interviewed former Chief of Staff Mike Tibbles, Mr. Palin even sought to obtain information about Trooper Wooten that was confidential by law ['Todd Palin asked for Wooten's file,' 'wanted Grimed report,' 'refuses to give it him']. The words selected by Mr. Palin, and his actions, give insight into his motivation and that of his wife, Governor Palin.
b,121
b,121"I conclude that such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the Palins' real motivation: to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons."
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Nah. Even with the most sympathetic reading of the argument possible it only amounts to a false dichotomy. Eliminating fear as the motivation doesn't prove personal family reasons were the motivation*. It would only be the case if these were the only two possible motivations but the argument itself points to another: the palin's felt wooten was incompetent. In fact, the report points to a large body of evidence that this was their motive to "prove" that they were motivated by personal family reasons.b,121b,121*Not that I actually think he does an effective job of eliminating fear as a motivation. You can simultaneously fear someone and think they're bad at their job, and palin lowering her security detail only suggests she didn't consider him a physical threat. Again, you can fear someone without thinking they're going to run up and butcher you in the street.
I hate to sound too much like rockadelic but...b,121b,121I find booing, heckling, shouting and otherwise attacking McCain/Palin and their supporters to be boorish at best and near criminal at worse. b,121b,121Years ago Bush the 41st was coming to Portland for a fund raiser and we had an anti-Bush rally outside the event. I was eager for Bush to see that so many people disagreed with his policies. b,121b,121There was a line of Bush supporters going in. One protester went up to the line and was screaming at them. Dude was foaming at the mouth.b,121b,121One woman was there with 2 young kids. Kids were all cute dressed in their Sunday go and meet the president best. This nut job had his face inches away from the kids spitting hate at them. b,121b,121Theres nothing wrong with letting the other side no how you feel, but do it respectfully. b,121b,121At the end of the day the other side just wants what they think is best for the country and the world, just like you.
b,121At the end of the day the other side just wants what they
b,121think is best for the country and the world, just like you.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Or what's best for their pals with deep pockets in the oil industryb,121and military contractors, etc. Let's not be naive about this.
b,121At the end of the day the other side just wants what they think is best for the country and the world, just like you.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121this a pretty charitable assessment of the average American voter, and particulary of the average GOP voter. I'd say the personal concerns of the voter generally come before those of the country, and certainly those of the world.b,121b,121(this is not to say that the average US voter actually votes in his or her self interest, but nonetheless thinks that's what they're doing.)
b,121At the end of the day the other side just wants what they
b,121think is best for the country and the world, just like you.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Or what's best for their pals with deep pockets in the oil industry
b,121and military contractors, etc. Let's not be naive about this.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Those people honestly believe that what is good for the oil industry and military contractors is good for America.b,121b,121Robert Riech was sec of labor under Clinton. One of his very first events as SOL was a fancy dinner. He was seated next to some airline executives. He asked them, What is one thing the administration can do to make America better. They went into a long discourse on deregulating the airlines. He was hoping that these very smart guys would actually have ideas about improving the country.
b,121At the end of the day the other side just wants what they
b,121think is best for the country and the world, just like you.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Or what's best for their pals with deep pockets in the oil industry
b,121and military contractors, etc. Let's not be naive about this.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Those people honestly believe that what is good for the oil industry and military contractors is good for America.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121How on earth would you know what they "honestly believe"?
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121My inlaws are very conservative. One time a got in a heated debate about some little thing. It really upset them that I was making my point so boisterously. b,121b,121Now in my family, that kind of arguing, debating, is par for the course.b,121But there family is far more reserved. b,121b,121Now, I know my inlaws. I know they are good, kind, charitable people. b,121b,121The last thing I want to do is upset them. b,121b,121I realized then, that what they want is what I want. We just disagree on how to get there.b,121b,121You are right. Many people just want what is best for them. Saba, proved over and over that he did not care about anyone but himself. b,121b,121There will be some teachers voting democratic, only because they think it is what is best for them. And to hell with everyone else. b,121b,121There will be some oil executives voting republican, only because they think it is what is best for them. And to hell with everyone else. b,121b,121But most people (I believe) vote the way they think is best for the country.
I was referring to politicians/policy-makers, not their voters. b,121b,121Still it doesn't make sense to me that you can know the motives for how a whole group of people vote just because of first-hand experience with a few conservative in-laws.
b,121''There is a lot of anger. There is anger at the inside dealing and anger at lobbyists and anger at the greed on Wall Street. There is anger at the Washington elite
b1and there is anger at voter fraud[/b],'' she said.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121ummm...not for nothing, but why are the republicans talking about anger towards voter fraud???? This makes me nervous as I am sure that many GOP's would love to suggest that any possible Obama victory must be fraudulent.
b,121b,121But reading this I got a chill when I came across a quote she made today:b,121b,121/font1
font class="small"1Quote:
/font1
h,121
b,121''There is a lot of anger. There is anger at the inside dealing and anger at lobbyists and anger at the greed on Wall Street. There is anger at the Washington elite
b1and there is anger at voter fraud[/b],'' she said.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121ummm...not for nothing, but why are the republicans talking about anger towards voter fraud???? This makes me nervous as I am sure that many GOP's would love to suggest that any possible Obama victory must be fraudulent. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I hate to drag my inlaws into this again. But they talk about voter fraud all the time. Not only will they believe that Obama's election was due to voter fraud, they believe that Kennedy/Johnson won due to voter fraud.
b,121I was referring to politicians/policy-makers, not their voters.
b,121
b,121Still it doesn't make sense to me that you can know the motives for how a whole group of people vote just because of first-hand experience with a few conservative in-laws.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I don't know. It is something I choose to believe. b,121b,121Either way, I don't think yelling abuse at people who are not persuadable is a good look.
The voter fraud thing is the latest talking point.b,121b,121The resident conservative at my school was spouting all of the bullshit today. Wisconsin conservatives investigated claims of voter fraud the last time around and found three -- i1three/i1[/b] -- offenses!
b,121ummm...not for nothing, but why are the republicans talking about anger towards voter fraud???? This makes me nervous as I am sure that many GOP's would love to suggest that any possible Obama victory must be fraudulent.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121seriously?b,121b,121ACORNb,121
by the way, i know mccain has ties as well.b,121so save it.b,121b,121this is something anybody[/b] with a minimum ofb,121intelligence should be angry about.
b,121b,121But reading this I got a chill when I came across a quote she made today:b,121b,121/font1
font class="small"1Quote:
/font1
h,121
b,121''There is a lot of anger. There is anger at the inside dealing and anger at lobbyists and anger at the greed on Wall Street. There is anger at the Washington elite
and there is anger at voter fraud[/b],'' she said.b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121ummm...not for nothing, but why are the republicans talking about anger towards voter fraud???? This makes me nervous as I am sure that many GOP's would love to suggest that any possible Obama victory must be fraudulent. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1
b,121
b,121I hate to drag my inlaws into this again. But they talk about voter fraud all the time. Not only will they believe that Obama's election was due to voter fraud, they believe that Kennedy/Johnson won due to voter fraud.
b,121
b,121
h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Pfft.b,121b,121I was going to say: "after Obama wins by some crazy 360-178 tally, there will be no reasonable doubt."b,121b,121 a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/religulous.html" target="_blank"1HELL of a photo here. god bless U.S. Americans.
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121*gulp* so wrong but yet so [i]right/i1b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121
Comments