Of course she fucked up, but do u actually think there arent THOUSANDS of teachers who think this shit in America and she is some rare case.
you are defending the right of a teacher to not only talk to a child about religion, but ignorantly and offensively state that obama is a muslim and doesn't believe in god?
come'on. what does it take to get fired? if she had said that she wouldn't vote for obama because he is black (instead of muslim), would it then be okay to fire her?
Did I Defend her? NO.
Im not surprised at the scenario. If You were to FIRE every teacher for overt or subtle fucked up remarks to children.....well u do the math.
Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.
Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.
TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.
Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices.
The department is set up to operate on a "complaint basis," and "since 2004, we haven't gotten a single complaint about TIZA," Brown said. In 2004, he sent two letters to the school inquiring about religious activity reported by visiting department staffers and in a news article. Brown was satisfied with Zaman's assurance that prayer is "voluntary" and "student-led," he said. The department did not attempt to confirm this independently, and did not ask how 5- to 11-year-olds could be initiating prayer. (At the time, TIZA was a K-5 school.)
Zaman agreed to respond by e-mail to concerns raised about the school's practices. Student "prayer is not mandated by TIZA," he wrote, and so is legal. On Friday afternoons, "students are released ... to either join a parent-led service or for study hall." Islamic Studies is provided by the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, and other "nonsectarian" after-school options are available, he added.
Yet prayer at TIZA does not appear to be spontaneously initiated by students, but rather scheduled, organized and promoted by school authorities.
Request for volunteers
Until recently, TIZA's website included a request for volunteers to help with "Friday prayers." In an e-mail, Zaman explained this as an attempt to ensure that "no TIZA staff members were involved in organizing the Friday prayers."
But an end run of this kind cannot remove the fact of school sponsorship of prayer services, which take place in the school building during school hours. Zaman does not deny that "some" Muslim teachers "probably" attend. According to federal guidelines on prayer in schools, teachers at a public school cannot participate in prayer with students.
In addition, schools cannot favor one religion by offering services for only its adherents, or promote after-school religious instruction for only one group. The ACLU of Minnesota has launched an investigation of TIZA, and the Minnesota Department of Education has also begun a review.
TIZA's operation as a public, taxpayer-funded school is troubling on several fronts. TIZA is skirting the law by operating what is essentially an Islamic school at taxpayer expense. The Department of Education has failed to provide the oversight necessary to catch these illegalities, and appears to lack the tools to do so. In addition, there's a double standard at work here -- if TIZA were a Christian school, it would likely be gone in a heartbeat.
TIZA is now being held up as a national model for a new kind of charter school. If it passes legal muster, Minnesota taxpayers may soon find themselves footing the bill for a separate system of education for Muslims.
It's crazy how the rightwingers still have it both ways:
1.) Obama is a Muslim
2.) Obama is too close to his Christian pastor who helped bring him closer to Jesus
Which one is it?
Oh, don't worry about that cognitive dissonance--I've observed wingnuts figuring out how to have their cake and eat it, too.
Obama's still a Muslim (who is going to institute Sharia law so that we can legalize gay marriage...they haven't figured out that bit of cognitive dissonance yet, but I'm sure it's in progress), but he's a particularly sneaky Muslim who pretends to be a Christian. TO WIT:
1) Rev. Wright is not a Christian. (There's a definite love of the No True Scotsman fallacy here.)
2) There's that Muslim doctrine that says Muslims are allowed to lie and say they aren't Muslim. (I know this will come as a complete shock, but wingers are intentionally distorting what that bit actually says.)
Therefore, OBAMA IS A STEALTH MUSLIM PRETENDING TO BE A CHRISTIAN!
Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.
Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.
TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.
Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices.
The department is set up to operate on a "complaint basis," and "since 2004, we haven't gotten a single complaint about TIZA," Brown said. In 2004, he sent two letters to the school inquiring about religious activity reported by visiting department staffers and in a news article. Brown was satisfied with Zaman's assurance that prayer is "voluntary" and "student-led," he said. The department did not attempt to confirm this independently, and did not ask how 5- to 11-year-olds could be initiating prayer. (At the time, TIZA was a K-5 school.)
Zaman agreed to respond by e-mail to concerns raised about the school's practices. Student "prayer is not mandated by TIZA," he wrote, and so is legal. On Friday afternoons, "students are released ... to either join a parent-led service or for study hall." Islamic Studies is provided by the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, and other "nonsectarian" after-school options are available, he added.
Yet prayer at TIZA does not appear to be spontaneously initiated by students, but rather scheduled, organized and promoted by school authorities.
Request for volunteers
Until recently, TIZA's website included a request for volunteers to help with "Friday prayers." In an e-mail, Zaman explained this as an attempt to ensure that "no TIZA staff members were involved in organizing the Friday prayers."
But an end run of this kind cannot remove the fact of school sponsorship of prayer services, which take place in the school building during school hours. Zaman does not deny that "some" Muslim teachers "probably" attend. According to federal guidelines on prayer in schools, teachers at a public school cannot participate in prayer with students.
In addition, schools cannot favor one religion by offering services for only its adherents, or promote after-school religious instruction for only one group. The ACLU of Minnesota has launched an investigation of TIZA, and the Minnesota Department of Education has also begun a review.
TIZA's operation as a public, taxpayer-funded school is troubling on several fronts. TIZA is skirting the law by operating what is essentially an Islamic school at taxpayer expense. The Department of Education has failed to provide the oversight necessary to catch these illegalities, and appears to lack the tools to do so. In addition, there's a double standard at work here -- if TIZA were a Christian school, it would likely be gone in a heartbeat.
TIZA is now being held up as a national model for a new kind of charter school. If it passes legal muster, Minnesota taxpayers may soon find themselves footing the bill for a separate system of education for Muslims.
That shit is amazing. And there are all kinds of idiots writing to defend that school's practices which are completely illegal for a public school to engage in. If that was a Baptist Pastor or Catholic Priest running that shit, the place would be under national media scrutiny right now, and many school administrators would be looking for new jobs.
That shit is amazing. And there are all kinds of idiots writing to defend that school's practices which are completely illegal for a public school to engage in. If that was a Baptist Pastor or Catholic Priest running that shit, the place would be under national media scrutiny right now, and many school administrators would be looking for new jobs.
Zactly....I'd love to hear someone explain this double standard.
this article is garbage. hillary all but ignored the Wright issue, except for stating that if it was her Minister, she would have had either said something to him, or not gone to his church - which is hardly controversial.
Actually, she made very calculated statements denouncing Wright for the purpose of smearing Obama by association on multiple occasions. And her statements all came after Obama had already distanced himself as the political game demanded, making her own "position" on the issue all the more ludicrous. "I don't just distance myself from controversial statements by my pastor- I would never belong to a church where controversial statements might be made in the future".
huh? dude, of course her statement "came after" Obama's: she was responding to his statement.
Of course...and her statements about Wright and what she would have done in Obama's shoes are that much more odd given this context. Obama denounces his pastor's statements and Hillary tries to one-up that by saying that not only does she denounce his comments, she actually has a time-machine she uses to pre-screen her own pastor's future comments on politics. It's a silly rhetorical position that is hard to take seriously.
He said he objects to some of Wright's stuff, and she said fine well why not leave the church then? she took a clear position in order to differentiate herself from her opponent, i.e. "well I would never have belonged to this church in the first place." what's so "ludicrous" about this statement exactly?
If that's how you see it, then cool. I disagree, but what you're saying here reinforces my only original point, which is how Hillary's comments cannot be read as anything but a calculated jab at Obama.
Me and my daughter were watching TV the other day when some Obama story came on..........The kid turns to me and says...
"I'm not gonna vote for Obama because He doesn't believe in God"
Me :[/b] "What? ....where'd you hear that?"
Her:[/b] "At school"
Me:[/b] "Which one of the kids said that?"
Her:[/b] "it wasn't a kid ...it was Miss **** "
Me:[/b]
Her:[/b] "One of the kids asked Miss **** if she was a republican or a democrat and she said a republican.....so i asked Miss **** who she was going to vote for and she said she didn't know ........then i said i'm going to vote for Obama.....then Miss **** said she wasn't going to vote for Obama because he was a Mu..Mu...Mu..Mus....
Me:[/b] "Muslim ?"
Her:[/b] "YEA ,A MUSLYNN ! .......and that those people don't believe in God"
Of course she fucked up, but do u actually think there arent THOUSANDS of teachers who think this shit in America and she is some rare case.
you are defending the right of a teacher to not only talk to a child about religion, but ignorantly and offensively state that obama is a muslim and doesn't believe in god?
come'on. what does it take to get fired? if she had said that she wouldn't vote for obama because he is black (instead of muslim), would it then be okay to fire her?
No.
Firing, even suspending is an extreme step. She should be put on notice though.
Would a teacher be fired for saying 2+2 is 5? This person is doing her students almost the same degree of disservice. In some ways, discrimination and racism are considered to be sins of the past, but it is yesterday's news in more than one way. Speaking purely in practical terms, and putting aside how one may feel about globalization, teaching children this kind of inaccurate information, not to mention small-mindedness, is making them ill-equipped for what is happening in the world.
Who do you think does better in the workforce? Bi-/multi-lingual people or unilingual people? Successful companies and institutions aren't looking to hire some ass who makes turban jokes in the lunchroom or overlooks excellent candidates because the name on the CV looks hard to pronounce. They want people who have an understanding of other cultures, who know about global economics and events and can conduct business with all kinds of people in a respectful and knowledgeable manner.
There are plenty of teachers out there who don't talk this kind of shit, or at least know enough to not do it in front of children. I think I am beginning to lean towards firing her more now than before - lol.
That shit is amazing. And there are all kinds of idiots writing to defend that school's practices which are completely illegal for a public school to engage in. If that was a Baptist Pastor or Catholic Priest running that shit, the place would be under national media scrutiny right now, and many school administrators would be looking for new jobs.
Zactly....I'd love to hear someone explain this double standard.
This resolution was passed by the Texas State Board of Education on November 9, 2001, and will be sent to every public school district in the state of Texas.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS in the September 11th terrorist attacks on America and the subsequent anthrax attacks, evil forces have attempted to wreak fear in the hearts of all Americans; and
WHEREAS our young people are particularly vulnerable to these unsettling feelings; and
WHEREAS there has been a national rekindling of expressions of faith and patriotism; and
WHEREAS our nation has a long and rich heritage of seeking God in time of trouble; and
WHEREAS the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed a unanimous 404-0 resolution stating that schools across the nation may display "God Bless America!" as a show of support for the nation; and
WHEREAS the U.S. Supreme Court has declared in its most recent ruling on religious activities in schools that "nothing in the Constitution as interpreted by this court prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day" (Jane Doe v. Santa Fe, 2000); and
WHEREAS, in the words of Chief Justice William Rehnquist, "nothing, absolutely nothing, is so inclined to foster among religious believers of various faiths a toleration -no, an affection- for one another than voluntarily joining in prayer together" (Lee v. Weisman, 1992); and
WHEREAS faith is such an important pillar of our society and nation that our national motto as officially adopted by the U.S. Congress is "In God We Trust"; and
WHEREAS our national anthem, "The Star Spangled Banner," declares, "Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven rescued land, praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! When conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: In God is our trust!"; and
WHEREAS from the very beginnings of our nation to the founding of our national government in 1774-and from the Continental Congress to the Constitutional Convention and the years after the establishment of the Constitution-prayer has been a consoling force in times of trouble and uncertainty; and
WHEREAS one of the purposes of education is to prepare students to be good citizens in their community, their State, and their nation; and
WHEREAS an appreciation and respect not only for the beliefs and traditions of others but also for the longstanding beliefs and traditions of the nation form a part of good citizenship; and
WHEREAS many misguided individuals attempt to pressure schools into restricting religious expression which the Supreme Court has not prohibited and which are, in fact, constitutional;
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the State Board of Education encourages each Texas school district to preserve and protect the rights of students of faith to join with others in their school and community, as well as with millions of others throughout the State and nation, in exercising their constitutional right of voluntary, non-coercive prayer, and their constitutionally protected right to express their feelings of faith and patriotism; and
BE IT ALSO RESOLVED that the Board directs that a copy of this resolution be mailed to each Texas school district.
Would a teacher be fired for saying 2+2 is 5? This person is doing her students almost the same degree of disservice. In some ways, discrimination and racism are considered to be sins of the past, but it is yesterday's news in more than one way. Speaking purely in practical terms, and putting aside how one may feel about globalization, teaching children this kind of inaccurate information, not to mention small-mindedness, is making them ill-equipped for what is happening in the world.
Who do you think does better in the workforce? Bi-/multi-lingual people or unilingual people? Successful companies and institutions aren't looking to hire some ass who makes turban jokes in the lunchroom or overlooks excellent candidates because the name on the CV looks hard to pronounce. They want people who have an understanding of other cultures, who know about global economics and events and can conduct business with all kinds of people in a respectful and knowledgeable manner.
There are plenty of teachers out there who don't talk this kind of shit, or at least know enough to not do it in front of children. I think I am beginning to lean towards firing her more now than before - lol.
Can't argue with that.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
that teacher should get fired. moron.
whoa dude, no personal shit here.
Of course she fucked up, but do u actually think there arent THOUSANDS of teachers who think this shit in America and she is some rare case.
you are defending the right of a teacher to not only talk to a child about religion, but ignorantly and offensively state that obama is a muslim and doesn't believe in god?
come'on. what does it take to get fired? if she had said that she wouldn't vote for obama because he is black (instead of muslim), would it then be okay to fire her?
No.
Firing, even suspending is an extreme step. She should be put on notice though.
No, she should have feathers thrown at her from a distance of one mile...that oughta learn her something.
That shit is amazing. And there are all kinds of idiots writing to defend that school's practices which are completely illegal for a public school to engage in. If that was a Baptist Pastor or Catholic Priest running that shit, the place would be under national media scrutiny right now, and many school administrators would be looking for new jobs.
Zactly....I'd love to hear someone explain this double standard.
This resolution was passed by the Texas State Board of Education on November 9, 2001, and will be sent to every public school district in the state of Texas.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS in the September 11th terrorist attacks on America and the subsequent anthrax attacks, evil forces have attempted to wreak fear in the hearts of all Americans; and
WHEREAS our young people are particularly vulnerable to these unsettling feelings; and
WHEREAS there has been a national rekindling of expressions of faith and patriotism; and
WHEREAS our nation has a long and rich heritage of seeking God in time of trouble; and
WHEREAS the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed a unanimous 404-0 resolution stating that schools across the nation may display "God Bless America!" as a show of support for the nation; and
WHEREAS the U.S. Supreme Court has declared in its most recent ruling on religious activities in schools that "nothing in the Constitution as interpreted by this court prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day" (Jane Doe v. Santa Fe, 2000); and
WHEREAS, in the words of Chief Justice William Rehnquist, "nothing, absolutely nothing, is so inclined to foster among religious believers of various faiths a toleration -no, an affection- for one another than voluntarily joining in prayer together" (Lee v. Weisman, 1992); and
WHEREAS faith is such an important pillar of our society and nation that our national motto as officially adopted by the U.S. Congress is "In God We Trust"; and
WHEREAS our national anthem, "The Star Spangled Banner," declares, "Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven rescued land, praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! When conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: In God is our trust!"; and
WHEREAS from the very beginnings of our nation to the founding of our national government in 1774-and from the Continental Congress to the Constitutional Convention and the years after the establishment of the Constitution-prayer has been a consoling force in times of trouble and uncertainty; and
WHEREAS one of the purposes of education is to prepare students to be good citizens in their community, their State, and their nation; and
WHEREAS an appreciation and respect not only for the beliefs and traditions of others but also for the longstanding beliefs and traditions of the nation form a part of good citizenship; and
WHEREAS many misguided individuals attempt to pressure schools into restricting religious expression which the Supreme Court has not prohibited and which are, in fact, constitutional;
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the State Board of Education encourages each Texas school district to preserve and protect the rights of students of faith to join with others in their school and community, as well as with millions of others throughout the State and nation, in exercising their constitutional right of voluntary, non-coercive prayer, and their constitutionally protected right to express their feelings of faith and patriotism; and
BE IT ALSO RESOLVED that the Board directs that a copy of this resolution be mailed to each Texas school district.
This illustrates what is wrong with charter schools, and what is wrong with school prayer.
For 20 years now the xian right has been working hard to get prayer into schools, and to create charter schools where their religious beliefs could be snuck in.
If this school (like other charter schools) was attached to a church, had a pastor as a teacher, had moments of silence, student lead prayer, after school religious clubs the person who wrote that article attacking the school would have written an article defending it.
I am opposed to prayer at graduations, football games, locker rooms, moments of silence (for the purpose of prayer) religious clubs and teachers spouting off their idiotic beliefs on Muslims, creation and presidential candidates.
It takes Muslim charter school to get peoples attention.
Hopefully now Texas politicians will stop trying to promote prayer in school.
The religious teachings and school led prayers as described in the Minnesota Islamic story are ILLEGAL in Texas and every other state in the union.
Kinky Friedman actually supported making prayer legal in Texas Public Schools as part of his recent Gubernatorial campaign.
There have been Supreme Court cases here in Texas that upheld the barring of student led prayers at Football Games, Graduations or any school sponsored event.
I'm certain that some idiots, including our moronic governor Rick Perry, have prayed in school settings, but I can assure you it is outlawed as part of the cirriculum, teacher involvement and requirements within the Texas State School System.
Anyone who breaks these laws should be dealt with.
This illustrates what is wrong with charter schools, and what is wrong with school prayer.
For 20 years now the xian right has been working hard to get prayer into schools, and to create charter schools where their religious beliefs could be snuck in.
If this school (like other charter schools) was attached to a church, had a pastor as a teacher, had moments of silence, student lead prayer, after school religious clubs the person who wrote that article attacking the school would have written an article defending it.
I am opposed to prayer at graduations, football games, locker rooms, moments of silence (for the purpose of prayer) religious clubs and teachers spouting off their idiotic beliefs on Muslims, creation and presidential candidates.
It takes Muslim charter school to get peoples attention.
Hopefully now Texas politicians will stop trying to promote prayer in school.
What publically supported "Charter Schools" are affiliated with any Church or Religion, and don't adhere to the Federal laws restricting promotion of religion in public schools??
Here are two quick Texas/Religion/School stories for anyone who is interested...
In 1997 my daughters were attending Travis Middle School in Irving, Texas. One day I went to pick them up and there were 3-4 adult men on school grounds handing out religious pamphlets and bibles. I parked my car and went in to see the Principal. I asked him if he knew these men were out there and he said yes. I suggested that it was against the law and he said "I gave them permission". I then asked if I could get permission to come to the school the next day and hand out bibles in the same manner. He hesitantly said yes....as I turned to leave I said "The only difference is I'll be handing out Satanic bibles and I'll have the local TV News with me". He ran after me, went outside and asked the men to leave, and assured me it would never happen again......to my knowledge, it didn't.
Around 2002 I was in my car listening to a local talk radio show, the Greg Knapp Experience. His guest was a Congressman from San Antonio who was promoting a bill to allow students in Texas schools to have a "moment of silence" to use as they see fit. I pulled off the road, called the show and got on the air. I stated that this was obviously a thinly veiled attempt to try to get prayer back into schools. The host, Mr. Knapp, said "I suppose you're one of those people who are against sex education in public school too". I shot back, "No, I support Sex AND Religious EDUCATION, I just don't think we should set time aside in the classroom for students to practice "EITHER ONE!".
This illustrates what is wrong with charter schools, and what is wrong with school prayer.
For 20 years now the xian right has been working hard to get prayer into schools, and to create charter schools where their religious beliefs could be snuck in.
If this school (like other charter schools) was attached to a church, had a pastor as a teacher, had moments of silence, student lead prayer, after school religious clubs the person who wrote that article attacking the school would have written an article defending it.
I am opposed to prayer at graduations, football games, locker rooms, moments of silence (for the purpose of prayer) religious clubs and teachers spouting off their idiotic beliefs on Muslims, creation and presidential candidates.
It takes Muslim charter school to get peoples attention.
Hopefully now Texas politicians will stop trying to promote prayer in school.
What publically supported "Charter Schools" are affiliated with any Church or Religion, and don't adhere to the Federal laws restricting promotion of religion in public schools??
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Until the supreme court struck it down, prayer Christian prayer, was common in Texas school. When did the Supreme Court strike down prayer at Texas schools? 2007.
As you point out handing out Bibles and thinly vailed attempts at getting prayer back in the schools are common in Texas.
Then only thing exceptional about your story is that it is Muslims not Christians trying to get their religion in school.
This illustrates what is wrong with charter schools, and what is wrong with school prayer.
For 20 years now the xian right has been working hard to get prayer into schools, and to create charter schools where their religious beliefs could be snuck in.
If this school (like other charter schools) was attached to a church, had a pastor as a teacher, had moments of silence, student lead prayer, after school religious clubs the person who wrote that article attacking the school would have written an article defending it.
I am opposed to prayer at graduations, football games, locker rooms, moments of silence (for the purpose of prayer) religious clubs and teachers spouting off their idiotic beliefs on Muslims, creation and presidential candidates.
It takes Muslim charter school to get peoples attention.
Hopefully now Texas politicians will stop trying to promote prayer in school.
What publically supported "Charter Schools" are affiliated with any Church or Religion, and don't adhere to the Federal laws restricting promotion of religion in public schools??
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Until the supreme court struck it down, prayer Christian prayer, was common in Texas school. When did the Supreme Court strike down prayer at Texas schools? 2007.
As you point out handing out Bibles and thinly vailed attempts at getting prayer back in the schools are common in Texas.
Then only thing exceptional about your story is that it is Muslims not Christians trying to get their religion in school.
The story isn't about Muslims TRYING to get their religion into a public school.
Yo my dude, lots of interesting argument going on this thread, but how did this jewel by Enki get by without any scrutiny?
Oh, don't worry about that cognitive dissonance--I've observed wingnuts figuring out how to have their cake and eat it, too.
Obama's still a Muslim (who is going to institute Sharia law so that we can legalize gay marriage...they haven't figured out that bit of cognitive dissonance yet, but I'm sure it's in progress), but he's a particularly sneaky Muslim who pretends to be a Christian. TO WIT:
1) Rev. Wright is not a Christian. (There's a definite love of the No True Scotsman fallacy here.)
2) There's that Muslim doctrine that says Muslims are allowed to lie and say they aren't Muslim. (I know this will come as a complete shock, but wingers are intentionally distorting what that bit actually says.)
Therefore, OBAMA IS A STEALTH MUSLIM PRETENDING TO BE A CHRISTIAN!
Yo my dude, lots of interesting argument going on this thread, but how did this jewel by Enki get by without any scrutiny?
Oh, don't worry about that cognitive dissonance--I've observed wingnuts figuring out how to have their cake and eat it, too.
Obama's still a Muslim (who is going to institute Sharia law so that we can legalize gay marriage...they haven't figured out that bit of cognitive dissonance yet, but I'm sure it's in progress), but he's a particularly sneaky Muslim who pretends to be a Christian. TO WIT:
1) Rev. Wright is not a Christian. (There's a definite love of the No True Scotsman fallacy here.)
2) There's that Muslim doctrine that says Muslims are allowed to lie and say they aren't Muslim. (I know this will come as a complete shock, but wingers are intentionally distorting what that bit actually says.)
Therefore, OBAMA IS A STEALTH MUSLIM PRETENDING TO BE A CHRISTIAN!
Q to the E to the muthafuckin' D.
This is just typical far left/far right rhetoric.....exaggerations based on assumptions and half truths, blown out of proportion to make a point.
The users seldom realize that their stretching of the truth invalidates their point.
"Well I didn't actually hear anyone say this but I KNOW it's what they are thinking!".
The TIZA story is based largely on the observations of one person spending one day there and passages like "prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered.", "rituals" and imagery of men in white clothing and children being forced into washing and praying is the stuff of (b-)movies. If Kersten had actually done her research, she would know that "...prayer at TIZA does not appear to be spontaneously initiated by students, but rather scheduled, organized and promoted by school authorities." makes sense as there are (up to) five set times when Muslims are supposed to pray and that one must wash before doing so. It definitely sounds like the school is a religious one and I wouldn't want to pay for it either, but this one badly researched, written and fear-mongering story.
And why does she say if this was a Christian school, it would be gone in a heartbeat? Is there some precedence for this in (edit) Minnesota and/or the States? - I'm asking honestly.
And why does she say if this was a Christian school, it would be gone in a heartbeat? Is there some precedence for this in (edit) Minnesota and/or the States? - I'm asking honestly.
Simple....it is against the law to promote and/or practice any religion in a public school, on school grounds, at school sponsored events or by public school employees during the school day. The fact that the prayers are scheduled and part of the cirriculum makes it worse than if it was being done discreetly and spontaneously by the students. There have been literally 1,000's of lawsuits brought against public schools that have promoted Christianity(to a much lesser degree)like TIZA appears to be promoting Islam.
The "Religious" schools in this country are private and not held to these standards.
Yo my dude, lots of interesting argument going on this thread, but how did this jewel by Enki get by without any scrutiny?
Oh, don't worry about that cognitive dissonance--I've observed wingnuts figuring out how to have their cake and eat it, too.
Obama's still a Muslim (who is going to institute Sharia law so that we can legalize gay marriage...they haven't figured out that bit of cognitive dissonance yet, but I'm sure it's in progress), but he's a particularly sneaky Muslim who pretends to be a Christian. TO WIT:
1) Rev. Wright is not a Christian. (There's a definite love of the No True Scotsman fallacy here.)
2) There's that Muslim doctrine that says Muslims are allowed to lie and say they aren't Muslim. (I know this will come as a complete shock, but wingers are intentionally distorting what that bit actually says.)
Therefore, OBAMA IS A STEALTH MUSLIM PRETENDING TO BE A CHRISTIAN!
Q to the E to the muthafuckin' D.
This is just typical far left/far right rhetoric.....exaggerations based on assumptions and half truths, blown out of proportion to make a point.
The users seldom realize that their stretching of the truth invalidates their point.
"Well I didn't actually hear anyone say this but I KNOW it's what they are thinking!".
I agree...but just for clarification's sake, I didn't exaggerate what they're saying. They seriously say that stuff--and they mean it. Right-wing blogs can be scary like that.
Also, for the record, I am against any sort of compulsory prayer or religious observance in public schools. If students want to pray while at school, they should be allowed to do so, but students should not be forced to conform to religious beliefs they do not hold themselves.
Comments
Did I Defend her? NO.
Im not surprised at the scenario. If You were to FIRE every teacher for overt or subtle fucked up remarks to children.....well u do the math.
http://www.startribune.com/local/17406054.html
Recently, I wrote about Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights. Charter schools are public schools and by law must not endorse or promote religion.
Evidence suggests, however, that TIZA is an Islamic school, funded by Minnesota taxpayers.
TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.
Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices.
The department is set up to operate on a "complaint basis," and "since 2004, we haven't gotten a single complaint about TIZA," Brown said. In 2004, he sent two letters to the school inquiring about religious activity reported by visiting department staffers and in a news article. Brown was satisfied with Zaman's assurance that prayer is "voluntary" and "student-led," he said. The department did not attempt to confirm this independently, and did not ask how 5- to 11-year-olds could be initiating prayer. (At the time, TIZA was a K-5 school.)
Zaman agreed to respond by e-mail to concerns raised about the school's practices. Student "prayer is not mandated by TIZA," he wrote, and so is legal. On Friday afternoons, "students are released ... to either join a parent-led service or for study hall." Islamic Studies is provided by the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, and other "nonsectarian" after-school options are available, he added.
Yet prayer at TIZA does not appear to be spontaneously initiated by students, but rather scheduled, organized and promoted by school authorities.
Request for volunteers
Until recently, TIZA's website included a request for volunteers to help with "Friday prayers." In an e-mail, Zaman explained this as an attempt to ensure that "no TIZA staff members were involved in organizing the Friday prayers."
But an end run of this kind cannot remove the fact of school sponsorship of prayer services, which take place in the school building during school hours. Zaman does not deny that "some" Muslim teachers "probably" attend. According to federal guidelines on prayer in schools, teachers at a public school cannot participate in prayer with students.
In addition, schools cannot favor one religion by offering services for only its adherents, or promote after-school religious instruction for only one group. The ACLU of Minnesota has launched an investigation of TIZA, and the Minnesota Department of Education has also begun a review.
TIZA's operation as a public, taxpayer-funded school is troubling on several fronts. TIZA is skirting the law by operating what is essentially an Islamic school at taxpayer expense. The Department of Education has failed to provide the oversight necessary to catch these illegalities, and appears to lack the tools to do so. In addition, there's a double standard at work here -- if TIZA were a Christian school, it would likely be gone in a heartbeat.
TIZA is now being held up as a national model for a new kind of charter school. If it passes legal muster, Minnesota taxpayers may soon find themselves footing the bill for a separate system of education for Muslims.
Katherine Kersten ??? [email]kkersten@startribune.com[/email]
Oh, don't worry about that cognitive dissonance--I've observed wingnuts figuring out how to have their cake and eat it, too.
Obama's still a Muslim (who is going to institute Sharia law so that we can legalize gay marriage...they haven't figured out that bit of cognitive dissonance yet, but I'm sure it's in progress), but he's a particularly sneaky Muslim who pretends to be a Christian. TO WIT:
1) Rev. Wright is not a Christian. (There's a definite love of the No True Scotsman fallacy here.)
2) There's that Muslim doctrine that says Muslims are allowed to lie and say they aren't Muslim. (I know this will come as a complete shock, but wingers are intentionally distorting what that bit actually says.)
Therefore, OBAMA IS A STEALTH MUSLIM PRETENDING TO BE A CHRISTIAN!
Q to the E to the muthafuckin' D.
That shit is amazing. And there are all kinds of idiots writing to defend that school's practices which are completely illegal for a public school to engage in. If that was a Baptist Pastor or Catholic Priest running that shit, the place would be under national media scrutiny right now, and many school administrators would be looking for new jobs.
Zactly....I'd love to hear someone explain this double standard.
Jesus (no pun intended).
No.
Firing, even suspending is an extreme step. She should be put on notice though.
Would a teacher be fired for saying 2+2 is 5? This person is doing her students almost the same degree of disservice. In some ways, discrimination and racism are considered to be sins of the past, but it is yesterday's news in more than one way. Speaking purely in practical terms, and putting aside how one may feel about globalization, teaching children this kind of inaccurate information, not to mention small-mindedness, is making them ill-equipped for what is happening in the world.
Who do you think does better in the workforce? Bi-/multi-lingual people or unilingual people?
Successful companies and institutions aren't looking to hire some ass who makes turban jokes in the lunchroom or overlooks excellent candidates because the name on the CV looks hard to pronounce. They want people who have an understanding of other cultures, who know about global economics and events and can conduct business with all kinds of people in a respectful and knowledgeable manner.
There are plenty of teachers out there who don't talk this kind of shit, or at least know enough to not do it in front of children.
I think I am beginning to lean towards firing her more now than before - lol.
What double standard?
I thought you were from Texas.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=15209
AUSTIN, Texas ??? Gov. Rick Perry prayed with students at an East Texas middle school gymnasium last week, saying afterward that he believes organized prayer should be allowed in public schools.
http://www.avantrex.com/policy/prayer.html
This resolution was passed by the Texas State Board of Education on November 9, 2001, and will be sent to every public school district in the state of Texas.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS in the September 11th terrorist attacks on America and the subsequent anthrax attacks, evil forces have attempted to wreak fear in the hearts of all Americans; and
WHEREAS our young people are particularly vulnerable to these unsettling feelings; and
WHEREAS there has been a national rekindling of expressions of faith and patriotism; and
WHEREAS our nation has a long and rich heritage of seeking God in time of trouble; and
WHEREAS the U.S. House of Representatives recently passed a unanimous 404-0 resolution stating that schools across the nation may display "God Bless America!" as a show of support for the nation; and
WHEREAS the U.S. Supreme Court has declared in its most recent ruling on religious activities in schools that "nothing in the Constitution as interpreted by this court prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day" (Jane Doe v. Santa Fe, 2000); and
WHEREAS, in the words of Chief Justice William Rehnquist, "nothing, absolutely nothing, is so inclined to foster among religious believers of various faiths a toleration -no, an affection- for one another than voluntarily joining in prayer together" (Lee v. Weisman, 1992); and
WHEREAS faith is such an important pillar of our society and nation that our national motto as officially adopted by the U.S. Congress is "In God We Trust"; and
WHEREAS our national anthem, "The Star Spangled Banner," declares, "Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven rescued land, praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! When conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: In God is our trust!"; and
WHEREAS from the very beginnings of our nation to the founding of our national government in 1774-and from the Continental Congress to the Constitutional Convention and the years after the establishment of the Constitution-prayer has been a consoling force in times of trouble and uncertainty; and
WHEREAS one of the purposes of education is to prepare students to be good citizens in their community, their State, and their nation; and
WHEREAS an appreciation and respect not only for the beliefs and traditions of others but also for the longstanding beliefs and traditions of the nation form a part of good citizenship; and
WHEREAS many misguided individuals attempt to pressure schools into restricting religious expression which the Supreme Court has not prohibited and which are, in fact, constitutional;
THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the State Board of Education encourages each Texas school district to preserve and protect the rights of students of faith to join with others in their school and community, as well as with millions of others throughout the State and nation, in exercising their constitutional right of voluntary, non-coercive prayer, and their constitutionally protected right to express their feelings of faith and patriotism; and
BE IT ALSO RESOLVED that the Board directs that a copy of this resolution be mailed to each Texas school district.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4763323.html
School prayer gets a boost
House approves bill that would let students express faith on campus
Can't argue with that.
No, she should have feathers thrown at her from a distance of one mile...that oughta learn her something.
One minor correction...
For 20 years now the xian right has been working hard to get prayer into schools, and to create charter schools where their religious beliefs could be snuck in.
If this school (like other charter schools) was attached to a church, had a pastor as a teacher, had moments of silence, student lead prayer, after school religious clubs the person who wrote that article attacking the school would have written an article defending it.
I am opposed to prayer at graduations, football games, locker rooms, moments of silence (for the purpose of prayer) religious clubs and teachers spouting off their idiotic beliefs on Muslims, creation and presidential candidates.
It takes Muslim charter school to get peoples attention.
Hopefully now Texas politicians will stop trying to promote prayer in school.
Kinky Friedman actually supported making prayer legal in Texas Public Schools as part of his recent Gubernatorial campaign.
There have been Supreme Court cases here in Texas that upheld the barring of student led prayers at Football Games, Graduations or any school sponsored event.
I'm certain that some idiots, including our moronic governor Rick Perry, have prayed in school settings, but I can assure you it is outlawed as part of the cirriculum, teacher involvement and requirements within the Texas State School System.
Anyone who breaks these laws should be dealt with.
What publically supported "Charter Schools" are affiliated with any Church or Religion, and don't adhere to the Federal laws restricting promotion of religion in public schools??
In 1997 my daughters were attending Travis Middle School in Irving, Texas. One day I went to pick them up and there were 3-4 adult men on school grounds handing out religious pamphlets and bibles. I parked my car and went in to see the Principal. I asked him if he knew these men were out there and he said yes. I suggested that it was against the law and he said "I gave them permission".
I then asked if I could get permission to come to the school the next day and hand out bibles in the same manner. He hesitantly said yes....as I turned to leave I said "The only difference is I'll be handing out Satanic bibles and I'll have the local TV News with me". He ran after me, went outside and asked the men to leave, and assured me it would never happen again......to my knowledge, it didn't.
Around 2002 I was in my car listening to a local talk radio show, the Greg Knapp Experience. His guest was a Congressman from San Antonio who was promoting a bill to allow students in Texas schools to have a "moment of silence" to use as they see fit. I pulled off the road, called the show and got on the air. I stated that this was obviously a thinly veiled attempt to try to get prayer back into schools. The host, Mr. Knapp, said "I suppose you're one of those people who are against sex education in public school too". I shot back, "No, I support Sex AND Religious EDUCATION, I just don't think we should set time aside in the classroom for students to practice "EITHER ONE!".
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Until the supreme court struck it down, prayer Christian prayer, was common in Texas school. When did the Supreme Court strike down prayer at Texas schools? 2007.
As you point out handing out Bibles and thinly vailed attempts at getting prayer back in the schools are common in Texas.
Then only thing exceptional about your story is that it is Muslims not Christians trying to get their religion in school.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-BOOK-Satanic-Bib...1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8602/The-Satanic-Bible
The story isn't about Muslims TRYING to get their religion into a public school.
RIF
God I hate Kinky. The most popular morning radio show here has him on pretty often. He is always spouting a bunch of "cowboy" rhetoric bullshit.
This is just typical far left/far right rhetoric.....exaggerations based on assumptions and half truths, blown out of proportion to make a point.
The users seldom realize that their stretching of the truth invalidates their point.
"Well I didn't actually hear anyone say this but I KNOW it's what they are thinking!".
It definitely sounds like the school is a religious one and I wouldn't want to pay for it either, but this one badly researched, written and fear-mongering story.
And why does she say if this was a Christian school, it would be gone in a heartbeat? Is there some precedence for this in (edit) Minnesota and/or the States? - I'm asking honestly.
Simple....it is against the law to promote and/or practice any religion in a public school, on school grounds, at school sponsored events or by public school employees during the school day. The fact that the prayers are scheduled and part of the cirriculum makes it worse than if it was being done discreetly and spontaneously by the students. There have been literally 1,000's of lawsuits brought against public schools that have promoted Christianity(to a much lesser degree)like TIZA appears to be promoting Islam.
The "Religious" schools in this country are private and not held to these standards.
I agree...but just for clarification's sake, I didn't exaggerate what they're saying. They seriously say that stuff--and they mean it. Right-wing blogs can be scary like that.
Also, for the record, I am against any sort of compulsory prayer or religious observance in public schools. If students want to pray while at school, they should be allowed to do so, but students should not be forced to conform to religious beliefs they do not hold themselves.