And no, records will not be worthless in 2009. They'll just all end up in Europe eventually.
I think Europe & even Japan will give in to the s.erato era. In 2009, only folks buying wax will be technically challenged. Like older people. I'm sure there will still be some collectros & they will realize their dreams of copping Bosco for 3.00. Schitt is over. Done. Bye-bye. all day, every day.
These statements are remarkbly naive in regards to human nature and the culture of the collectro. Vinyl as a contemporary format has been dead for years - if anything, it has been somewhat revived in the past few years. Just because club DJ's will use MP3's instead of 12" singles for the forseeable future doesn't mean record collecting is in some sort of danger of dying off. People will collect, that's what they do. It is part of the DNA of millions and millions of people to want to own items from the past, to collect "rarities" to have the best or be the best or know the most ... I don't see how s.erato or the MP3 is in any way a threat to this aspect of life, certainly no more than the CD was.
And no, records will not be worthless in 2009. They'll just all end up in Europe eventually.
I think Europe & even Japan will give in to the s.erato era. In 2009, only folks buying wax will be technically challenged. Like older people. I'm sure there will still be some collectros & they will realize their dreams of copping Bosco for 3.00. Schitt is over. Done. Bye-bye. all day, every day.
These statements are remarkbly naive in regards to human nature and the culture of the collectro. Vinyl as a contemporary format has been dead for years - if anything, it has been somewhat revived in the past few years. Just because club DJ's will use MP3's instead of 12" singles for the forseeable future doesn't mean record collecting is in some sort of danger of dying off. People will collect, that's what they do. It is part of the DNA of millions and millions of people to want to own items from the past, to collect "rarities" to have the best or be the best or know the most ... I don't see how s.erato or the MP3 is in any way a threat to this aspect of life, certainly no more than the CD was.
CD couldn't beat wax because it wasn't as good. Mp3's are not so hot, but they're free. Get it at 320. 320 is the new -M. 192 is VG+.
CD couldn't beat wax because it wasn't as good. Mp3's are not so hot, but they're free. Get it at 320. 320 is the new -M. 192 is VG+.
Uh, whatever. That has nothing to do with my point, which is that people will still collect old things, especially cool things like records, no matter what new format comes along. People don't collect records just to hear the music - even if that's a big part of it - they collect because they are COLLECTORS. Again, is vinyl as a medium for newly released and even reissued music for the most part dead? Sure - but it has been for almost 20 years ... and if anything is more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. But this has nothing to do with people collecting records and why Boscoe is "worth" $700.
CD couldn't beat wax because it wasn't as good. Mp3's are not so hot, but they're free. Get it at 320. 320 is the new -M. 192 is VG+.
Uh, whatever. That has nothing to do with my point, which is that people will still collect old things, especially cool things like records, no matter what new format comes along. People don't collect records just to hear the music - even if that's a big part of it - they collect because they are COLLECTORS. Again, is vinyl as a medium for newly released and even reissued music for the most part dead? Sure - but it has been for almost 20 years ... and if anything is more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. But this has nothing to do with people collecting records and why Boscoe is "worth" $700.
I guess my thing is that I think the basic human love for free stuff will supersede the inner collectro. I follow you on the whole "We collect because we are compelled" schitck. "Collectors want the authentic artifact.." Uh-huh. I agree. But markets are driven by demand & I see demand lessening on account of the free alternative that exists. The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
CD couldn't beat wax because it wasn't as good. Mp3's are not so hot, but they're free. Get it at 320. 320 is the new -M. 192 is VG+.
Uh, whatever. That has nothing to do with my point, which is that people will still collect old things, especially cool things like records, no matter what new format comes along. People don't collect records just to hear the music - even if that's a big part of it - they collect because they are COLLECTORS. Again, is vinyl as a medium for newly released and even reissued music for the most part dead? Sure - but it has been for almost 20 years ... and if anything is more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. But this has nothing to do with people collecting records and why Boscoe is "worth" $700.
The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
Tons of teenagers and college kids are into collecting records. New ones every year. Maybe not as many as in the 80's, or maybe yes as many, can't say for sure. But I do know that every year new people take up the hobby, that my local record stores are selling to more young collectors in 2008 than they were in 2001, and that for the remaining used record stores, business is actually pretty good. It is not going away. If anything, people will react to the disposable nature of digital music by seeking out something more physical, tangible and permanent. Once again, it is just human nature.
The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
You have a bad seat......
I've been selling heavily on ebay since 11/98....I keep ridiculously anal retentive stats on what I sell, how many bids, how many "watchers". Over that 10 year span every one of those stats has gone up, including a 30% increase in the average sale price per disc.
The market changes.....I used to get $20 for a Toe Fat LP from psych collectors....then it went up to $40 for the braeks dudes.....now it's down to $10. This week I sold a 60's "Teener" LP that I've sold 3 times over the last 10 years for an average price of $35........this one pulled $168 on ebay.
Braeks will fade......your 10 second clips of sound will be unwanted....but to think the rest of the vinyl market will be effected is either sour grapes or ignorant.
MAN! this whole thread jjust jinxed me. It had never happened to me but this week I ran into the same crusty old crack head smelly ass B.O. loser record "collector" guy .I ran in to him 3 times on ifferent days and different stores and he would come up to me with some bullshit records trying to school me on them .Funny thing is he was wearing exactly the same clothes each time and smelled worse.This had never happened to me before this thread caame out. On top of that he was "dj'ing" at one of the stores which seemed completely retarded cuz he clearly does not know what a mix is and playd some of the worst songs ever in the most uncoherent and wak way. Although to tell the truth, some times, I don't know if I prefer lame ass burnouts or pretentious soulstrutter "gotta-get-a-life" cats who will be discussing some seriously unimportent record minutia at record stores with the most arrogant of stances trying to claim bragging rights on some shit nobody gives a fu*k about...
The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
You have a bad seat......
I've been selling heavily on ebay since 11/98....I keep ridiculously anal retentive stats on what I sell, how many bids, how many "watchers". Over that 10 year span every one of those stats has gone up, including a 30% increase in the average sale price per disc.
The market changes.....I used to get $20 for a Toe Fat LP from psych collectors....then it went up to $40 for the braeks dudes.....now it's down to $10. This week I sold a 60's "Teener" LP that I've sold 3 times over the last 10 years for an average price of $35........this one pulled $168 on ebay.
Braeks will fade......your 10 second clips of sound will be unwanted....but to think the rest of the vinyl market will be effected is either sour grapes or ignorant.
' You know I grew up on hip hop, breaks, loops finding samples. Almost 8 years deep in record collecting I no longer care about using records to make beats. So 90's!! I was one of those dudes that wanted alot of records for sampling until I realized there was a market for obscure vintage music that never was appreciated when it was originally released,long story store I had to sale most of my collection off because of some serious bad business decisions.Now I'm older & could care less about beats and loops. I love hearing something out of the ordinary besides Mp3's and mainstream crap music.
been lurking on here for while and thought id post something
been into records for about 3 yrs, bboyin since 97.
for money i buy and sell stamps or philatelics.
i hate the things and for the life of me cant understand why people buy them but hey people seem to like them and will pay perfectly decent money for them.
Stamps in principle are worthless, but people will pay as much money as a nice house to have certain items. I know of one Japanese dealer in the last month who sold one envelope for just over US$500,000.
The collectors market comes down to supply and demand, demand can change very rapidly, and it can be created. I know some insurance companies buy up stamp collections as investments.
You cant predict market demand - the chinese ecomnomy is now massive. The value of some chinese stamps has exploded in the past year as the people have more money to spend on useless shit. One year ago i would have sold THIS for around US$50, its over 10x its value in the space of a year.
The point is, collecting records at a certain level is the same as collecting stamps or collecting anything else.... why will people pa $10000/$300/$50/$10 for a record? Its intrinsic value is either priceless or about $1 depending on how you see it. Its possible that mainland chinese will get into record collecting in a big way, if that happens prices will skyrocket.
Its possible that mainland chinese will get into record collecting in a big way, if that happens prices will skyrocket.
That's what AP and a lot of others have dreamed of happening, but to be honest it's just a few dudes from HK and like Thailand. I have yet to sell more than 1 LP a year to China. It ain't happening.
I do need to go dig out all those chinese stamps I collected in the 80s when I was a kid now, haha. Thanks for the heads up, good perspective for sure.
Thinking/speaking/worrying about "the game" = step 1 towards becoming a crustbucket.
Not aimed at you, B*****n, just a general observation. Along with the jaded know-it-all attitude (be it "I was a roadie for the 'Dead" or "I rocked doubles of Apache in '81"), preoccupation with "the game" is usually one of the most unflattering characteristics of the crusty old/young dude digger. Often goes along with being a seller on a certain level. I guess they got to do what they got to do, they're just not very interesting people to be around.
But I'm with Ako on focusing on the positive. Plenty of cool folks out there.
ok i'll throw down about 10 years ago i was at a flea in NC and an old dude was digging ultra slow thru the only crate in the spot. I was watching him flip thru the box over his shoulder an shit.He was a red faced chubby happy guy with a fishing cap on, sure as hell a southern man as told by the deep drawl. Interspersed amongst mitch miller and firestone xmas specials was insane heat. Shit like the first two meters,several felas,black merda,a gang of mono blue notes-basically a wet dream crate come true -and as I found out later it was all in Ex/Mint cond. But it was tough waiting on gramps to finish up. I almost had a conniption right in the parking lot. He was pullin' polka and dixieland and chatting me up about the good old days.I kept grinnin lke a fool ....not engaging him in any conversation,just noddin my head and smilin.As karma would have it, he left all the cake for me but i was sweatin' it hard in the interim. I know there are many other guys with this same story.
The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
Tons of teenagers and college kids are into collecting records. New ones every year. Maybe not as many as in the 80's, or maybe yes as many, can't say for sure. But I do know that every year new people take up the hobby, that my local record stores are selling to more young collectors in 2008 than they were in 2001, and that for the remaining used record stores, business is actually pretty good. It is not going away. If anything, people will react to the disposable nature of digital music by seeking out something more physical, tangible and permanent. Once again, it is just human nature.
When I started chasing down elusive vinyl, it was the 80s, there was no Internet, everybody hand-wrote their want lists and used Goldmine to send that shit back and forth, and I was a 13 year-old (female) at record shows with scary hippies who blew ganja smoke rings at me on the regular. I had two crates I'd cart around with me to the shows in order to trade or sell to weirdos on the spot, until I'd had a couple scary experiences and decided not to deal with shows at all anymore, but strictly with record shops, people I knew personally or just via mail.
Sometimes I can't believe the ease with which people can obtain holy grail items they've been looking for. Sure, they may come at a premium, but the limiting factor tends to be price, not the actual impossibility of getting the item. It has sort of cheapened things, in a way, I guess, although I won't argue with the delight I have of getting something off eBay or wherever and having it sent to my door, and slipping it onto the turntable for the first time.
My biggest issue with that was bullshit people claiming their stuff was of much higher quality than it was. VG++!!!!!omg my ass.
Anyway, record shows == burnout freaks. I thought everyone knew this. It's always been this way.
When I started chasing down elusive vinyl, it was the 80s, there was no Internet, everybody hand-wrote their want lists and used Goldmine to send that shit back and forth, and I was a 13 year-old (female) at record shows with scary hippies who blew ganja smoke rings at me on the regular. I had two crates I'd cart around with me to the shows in order to trade or sell to weirdos on the spot, until I'd had a couple scary experiences and decided not to deal with shows at all anymore, but strictly with record shops, people I knew personally or just via mail.
Sometimes I can't believe the ease with which people can obtain holy grail items they've been looking for. Sure, they may come at a premium, but the limiting factor tends to be price, not the actual impossibility of getting the item. It has sort of cheapened things, in a way, I guess, although I won't argue with the delight I have of getting something off eBay or wherever and having it sent to my door, and slipping it onto the turntable for the first time.
My biggest issue with that was bullshit people claiming their stuff was of much higher quality than it was. VG++!!!!!omg my ass.
Anyway, record shows == burnout freaks. I thought everyone knew this. It's always been this way.
^^Not sure how I missed this post, definitely a good look.
..While aged crust diggers are wack, I agree that the young ones can be just as strange.
A couple of months back I had to pleasure of witnesses a nerded out dude in his mid 20s, obsessively badgering the guy holding a record sale at his own house about 78s for 30 straight minutes. When i say nerded out, I dont mean hipster-nerd, I mean nerd, lambda lambda lambda nerd.
The seller had mentioned that he had sold or given away most of the 78s he had awhile ago to his friends , and then the convo went this way:
Kid: "Can you call them up and see if they will sell them to me?" :blank:
Seller: "Im not doing that"
Kid: "Give me their numbers and I will call them" :blank:
Seller: "no, im not doing that" :-/
Kid: "I am sure if I talk to them, they will not mind" :blank:
Seller: >:-(
Kid: :blank:
Kid: :blank:
Kid: :blank: "You sure you don't got any more 78s? I can go inside your house and look in case you overlooked any" (the seller had sheds full of records, but he also had a big personal collection inside, but he wasn't selling from that, just the sheds this time)
Seller: >:( "No"
This went on for 20 more minutes.
Seller looked like he wanted to get on his MobbDepp Prodigy Infamous LP skit and get on his "high school shit and punch niggas in the face just for living"
Comments
These statements are remarkbly naive in regards to human nature
and the culture of the collectro. Vinyl as a contemporary format has
been dead for years - if anything, it has been somewhat revived in
the past few years. Just because club DJ's will use MP3's instead of
12" singles for the forseeable future doesn't mean record collecting
is in some sort of danger of dying off. People will collect, that's what
they do. It is part of the DNA of millions and millions of people to want
to own items from the past, to collect "rarities" to have the best or be
the best or know the most ... I don't see how s.erato or the MP3 is in
any way a threat to this aspect of life, certainly no more than the CD was.
CD couldn't beat wax because it wasn't as good. Mp3's are not so hot, but they're free. Get it at 320. 320 is the new -M. 192 is VG+.
Uh, whatever. That has nothing to do with my point, which is that people
will still collect old things, especially cool things like records, no matter what
new format comes along. People don't collect records just to hear the music -
even if that's a big part of it - they collect because they are COLLECTORS.
Again, is vinyl as a medium for newly released and even reissued music for
the most part dead? Sure - but it has been for almost 20 years ... and if anything
is more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. But this has nothing to do
with people collecting records and why Boscoe is "worth" $700.
I guess my thing is that I think the basic human love for free stuff will supersede the inner collectro. I follow you on the whole "We collect because we are compelled" schitck. "Collectors want the authentic artifact.." Uh-huh. I agree. But markets are driven by demand & I see demand lessening on account of the free alternative that exists. The big question for me is, how many dedicated collectors are still out there? From where I'm sitting, not many.
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Hey Guys!!!
Tons of teenagers and college kids are into collecting records.
New ones every year. Maybe not as many as in the 80's, or maybe
yes as many, can't say for sure. But I do know that every year new
people take up the hobby, that my local record stores are selling to
more young collectors in 2008 than they were in 2001, and that for
the remaining used record stores, business is actually pretty good.
It is not going away. If anything, people will react to the disposable
nature of digital music by seeking out something more physical, tangible
and permanent. Once again, it is just human nature.
You have a bad seat......
I've been selling heavily on ebay since 11/98....I keep ridiculously anal retentive stats on what I sell, how many bids, how many "watchers". Over that 10 year span every one of those stats has gone up, including a 30% increase in the average sale price per disc.
The market changes.....I used to get $20 for a Toe Fat LP from psych collectors....then it went up to $40 for the braeks dudes.....now it's down to $10. This week I sold a 60's "Teener" LP that I've sold 3 times over the last 10 years for an average price of $35........this one pulled $168 on ebay.
Braeks will fade......your 10 second clips of sound will be unwanted....but to think the rest of the vinyl market will be effected is either sour grapes or ignorant.
YEAH DON'T TALK ABOUT THINGS IT MEANS UR A SEXLESS DORK MAN
... whatevs dude, I get mine.
many chic boutiques in NYC sell phonographs.
You know I grew up on hip hop, breaks, loops finding samples. Almost 8 years deep in record collecting I no longer care about using records to make beats. So 90's!!
I was one of those dudes that wanted alot of records for sampling until I realized there was a market for obscure vintage music that never was appreciated when it was originally released,long story store I had to sale most of my collection off because of some serious bad business decisions.Now I'm older & could care less about beats and loops. I love hearing something out of the ordinary besides Mp3's and mainstream crap music.
been lurking on here for while and thought id post something
been into records for about 3 yrs, bboyin since 97.
for money i buy and sell stamps or philatelics.
i hate the things and for the life of me cant understand why people buy them but hey people seem to like them and will pay perfectly decent money for them.
Stamps in principle are worthless, but people will pay as much money as a nice house to have certain items. I know of one Japanese dealer in the last month who sold one envelope for just over US$500,000.
The collectors market comes down to supply and demand, demand can change very rapidly, and it can be created. I know some insurance companies buy up stamp collections as investments.
You cant predict market demand - the chinese ecomnomy is now massive. The value of some chinese stamps has exploded in the past year as the people have more money to spend on useless shit. One year ago i would have sold THIS for around US$50, its over 10x its value in the space of a year.
The point is, collecting records at a certain level is the same as collecting stamps or collecting anything else.... why will people pa $10000/$300/$50/$10 for a record? Its intrinsic value is either priceless or about $1 depending on how you see it. Its possible that mainland chinese will get into record collecting in a big way, if that happens prices will skyrocket.
thats prob not a good thing but it could happen.
pc
sage
That's what AP and a lot of others have dreamed of happening, but to be honest it's just a few dudes from HK and like Thailand. I have yet to sell more than 1 LP a year to China. It ain't happening.
I do need to go dig out all those chinese stamps I collected in the 80s when I was a kid now, haha. Thanks for the heads up, good perspective for sure.
Thinking/speaking/worrying about "the game" = step 1 towards becoming a crustbucket.
Not aimed at you, B*****n, just a general observation. Along with the jaded know-it-all attitude (be it "I was a roadie for the 'Dead" or "I rocked doubles of Apache in '81"), preoccupation with "the game" is usually one of the most unflattering characteristics of the crusty old/young dude digger. Often goes along with being a seller on a certain level. I guess they got to do what they got to do, they're just not very interesting people to be around.
But I'm with Ako on focusing on the positive. Plenty of cool folks out there.
01/08/08: Mylatency lists several "CHEESECAKE" auctions on eBay...
Haha, you're funny Crink. Just makin' more C's, that's all. You wouldn't understand.
LMFAO!!!!
What kind of cheesecake? Real headz wanna know!
alot of VG-----
So it's not actually cheesecake, the kind you eat?
about 10 years ago i was at a flea in NC and an old dude was digging ultra slow thru the only crate in the spot.
I was watching him flip thru the box over his shoulder an shit.He was a red faced chubby happy guy with a fishing cap on, sure as hell a southern man as told by the deep drawl.
Interspersed amongst mitch miller and firestone xmas specials was insane heat.
Shit like the first two meters,several felas,black merda,a gang of mono blue notes-basically a wet dream crate come true -and as I found out later it was all in Ex/Mint cond.
But it was tough waiting on gramps to finish up.
I almost had a conniption right in the parking lot.
He was pullin' polka and dixieland and chatting me up about the good old days.I kept grinnin lke a fool ....not engaging him in any conversation,just noddin my head and smilin.As karma would have it, he left all the cake for me but i was sweatin' it hard in the interim.
I know there are many other guys with this same story.
When I started chasing down elusive vinyl, it was the 80s, there was no Internet, everybody hand-wrote their want lists and used Goldmine to send that shit back and forth, and I was a 13 year-old (female) at record shows with scary hippies who blew ganja smoke rings at me on the regular. I had two crates I'd cart around with me to the shows in order to trade or sell to weirdos on the spot, until I'd had a couple scary experiences and decided not to deal with shows at all anymore, but strictly with record shops, people I knew personally or just via mail.
Sometimes I can't believe the ease with which people can obtain holy grail items they've been looking for. Sure, they may come at a premium, but the limiting factor tends to be price, not the actual impossibility of getting the item. It has sort of cheapened things, in a way, I guess, although I won't argue with the delight I have of getting something off eBay or wherever and having it sent to my door, and slipping it onto the turntable for the first time.
My biggest issue with that was bullshit people claiming their stuff was of much higher quality than it was. VG++!!!!!omg my ass.
Anyway, record shows == burnout freaks. I thought everyone knew this. It's always been this way.
Damn, you sound cool.
At 13 i was falling of my skateboard and avoiding eye contact with girls.
^^Not sure how I missed this post, definitely a good look.
..While aged crust diggers are wack, I agree that the young ones can be just as strange.
A couple of months back I had to pleasure of witnesses a nerded out dude in his mid 20s, obsessively badgering the guy holding a record sale at his own house about 78s for 30 straight minutes. When i say nerded out, I dont mean hipster-nerd, I mean nerd, lambda lambda lambda nerd.
The seller had mentioned that he had sold or given away most of the 78s he had awhile ago to his friends , and then the convo went this way:
Kid: "Can you call them up and see if they will sell them to me?" :blank:
Seller: "Im not doing that"
Kid: "Give me their numbers and I will call them" :blank:
Seller: "no, im not doing that" :-/
Kid: "I am sure if I talk to them, they will not mind" :blank:
Seller: >:-(
Kid: :blank:
Kid: :blank:
Kid: :blank: "You sure you don't got any more 78s? I can go inside your house and look in case you overlooked any" (the seller had sheds full of records, but he also had a big personal collection inside, but he wasn't selling from that, just the sheds this time)
Seller: >:( "No"
This went on for 20 more minutes.
Seller looked like he wanted to get on his MobbDepp Prodigy Infamous LP skit and get on his "high school shit and punch niggas in the face just for living"