I live in a major city known for its diversity, in a country known for its decidely non-melting pot approach to different cultures, and I am an immigrant myself, so my experience and perspective is definitely a result of that; I do think that while things like (lack of) representation and definitions of the ideal in the media are influences, that people live in close quarters to, are going to school and work with all kinds of people also contributes to how their eyes and hearts roam.
A lot of the recent studies on interracial marriage/dating patterns has indeed, been focused on what you might call "contact theory." The basic argument is that the higher integration of different people - in a non-competitive environment - the more likely you'd see patterns of intermarriage between them. That doesn't include or discount racial biases around attractiveness, though the latter is considerably harder to research.
I'm not saying there hasn't been greater integration but it seems like we're arguing over how far the media has been greater integrated and seriously, the % of change is still pretty miniscule, all things considered. MTV-notwithstanding (and again, I don't see it as a representative slice in any meaningful way though I agree, it's useful as at least one, influential source), any basic survey of contemporary media would still show that Whiteness, by far, dominates.
The idea that the European beauty myth is over is highly speculative and debatable ESPECIALLY if you look at overseas media and the ways in which notions of "fairness" is still heavily, heavily promoted and idealized. Look at fashion magazines and runways and see how well integrated those are. If anything, it's been rolled BACK to mostly white models.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair. The only exception would be her body figure but even then, the "celebration" of Black female booties goes back to Venus Hottentot and earlier. That's not, however, equivalent to the promotion of non-White beauty standards outside of ass size.
In any case, we're getting kind of sidetracked here. THe original issue was: why is it that East Asians ain't go no love for their own?
It's also funny that you're using MTV as some kind of demographic slice of America considering their reluctance to show any Black people on the channel until "Thriller."
again though: Thriller was 1982. Teenagers who were watching it are now 40. Assuming 40 is the top end, age-wise, of the survey sample, pretty much everyone since then has been exposed to sex symbols of color.
And not only has the representation of sex symbols of color increased since 1982, but so has the viewership/influence of outlets such as MTV. Thus, the younger the individual sampled, the more exposure to sex symbols of color they would have had. The low-end of the sample group, age-wise, (say 16-19 yr olds) would have had DRASTICALLY more exposure to sex symbols of color than the top-end, and would skew the findings accordingly I think.
the European beauty myth monopoly[/b] , while it lasted for CENTURIES and influenced VAST bodies of art and literature, is now totally -- and irreversably -- over.
it still dominates (no doubt), but we can no longer talk of a true monopoly. the vast body of white-European-beauty-ideal-inspired art and literature means next to nothing to today's kids anyway, and will mean increasingly little in the future.
I no longer think the default concept of "beauty" for a young American today is "white."
or, at least, it's not as self-evidently "white" as you make it out to be (e.g. as self-evidently "white" as the concept of beauty would have been for a European for the last thousand years). the picture in America today is far, far more complicated I think.
the % of change is still pretty miniscule, all things considered.
well someone tried to place today's beauty ideals into the context of past centuries of European domination/promotion of white-Euro beauty ideals.
while these ideals may still prevail, I can't see how the change could be characterized as "miniscule." I'd say ZERO positive represention of actors/actresses/musicians of color >>> undeniable positive represention of actors/actresses/musicians of color (however inadequate) is anything but a miniscule change.
and apropos your Hottentot point, I never said the change was positive or progressive. but Venus Hottentot was not on the internet. however negative a stereotype her image promoted, it was still very, very limited in its reach when compared to media today. the fact is there are positive examples of actors/actresses/musicians of color today, and these "factor in" (however subconciously) to people's concept of beauty today. this cannot necessarily be said of centuries past.
back to your point about East Asians getting no love, I dunno. I dated a Viet Namese girl and I think she was fine.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair.
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair.
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
What message? Beyonce isnt some new style. Check Billie Holiday.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair.
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
What message? Beyonce isnt some new style. Check Billie Holiday.
And last I checked, Beyonce is not 'mixed race' by the average American's standard. Both her parent's are African American, unless I missed something.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair.
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
What message? Beyonce isnt some new style. Check Billie Holiday.
And last I checked, Beyonce is not 'mixed race' by the average American's standard. Both her parent's are African American, unless I missed something.
Yeah, but I always thought that her & other celebrities pictures get touched up to make them look less black.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair.
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
What message? Beyonce isnt some new style. Check Billie Holiday.
And last I checked, Beyonce is not 'mixed race' by the average American's standard. Both her parent's are African American, unless I missed something.
Yeah, but I always thought that her & other celebrities pictures get touched up to make them look less black.
But that's not making a case for different races to start making babies with each other, and straightening hair, using fair complexion foundation and shadowing to thin out noses is definitely nothing new.
Anyone remember the hair dye ads Jennifer Lopez appeared in when she first got big? She was about three foundation shades lighter than her natural skin that she was not even recognizable.
In any case, we're getting kind of sidetracked here. The original issue was: why is it that East Asians ain't go no love for their own?
Maybe it all goes back to Kung Fu movies. A very common plot device is dudes confusing a woman for a man. A guy talking to Zhang Ziyi or Michelle Yeoh in a movie & calling her "Sir". And I'm like, "Yo dude, get your vision checked, that girl is FOINE!!!!" I've always been fascinated by that. Somebody needs to write a paper on that ish, for real. Like, KF movies & gender studies. Dub, hook it up.
Comments
A lot of the recent studies on interracial marriage/dating patterns has indeed, been focused on what you might call "contact theory." The basic argument is that the higher integration of different people - in a non-competitive environment - the more likely you'd see patterns of intermarriage between them. That doesn't include or discount racial biases around attractiveness, though the latter is considerably harder to research.
i don't know about where you're at but out here in cali these white women be drinkin' they milk and it shows, and i ain't mad at that either.
I'm not saying there hasn't been greater integration but it seems like we're arguing over how far the media has been greater integrated and seriously, the % of change is still pretty miniscule, all things considered. MTV-notwithstanding (and again, I don't see it as a representative slice in any meaningful way though I agree, it's useful as at least one, influential source), any basic survey of contemporary media would still show that Whiteness, by far, dominates.
The idea that the European beauty myth is over is highly speculative and debatable ESPECIALLY if you look at overseas media and the ways in which notions of "fairness" is still heavily, heavily promoted and idealized. Look at fashion magazines and runways and see how well integrated those are. If anything, it's been rolled BACK to mostly white models.
Also, using Beyonce as a new standard is rather questionable given that many of her features are more in line with European beauty standards - light skin, wavy hair. The only exception would be her body figure but even then, the "celebration" of Black female booties goes back to Venus Hottentot and earlier. That's not, however, equivalent to the promotion of non-White beauty standards outside of ass size.
In any case, we're getting kind of sidetracked here. THe original issue was: why is it that East Asians ain't go no love for their own?
well someone tried to place today's beauty ideals into the context of past centuries of European domination/promotion of white-Euro beauty ideals.
while these ideals may still prevail, I can't see how the change could be characterized as "miniscule." I'd say ZERO positive represention of actors/actresses/musicians of color >>> undeniable positive represention of actors/actresses/musicians of color (however inadequate) is anything but a miniscule change.
and apropos your Hottentot point, I never said the change was positive or progressive. but Venus Hottentot was not on the internet. however negative a stereotype her image promoted, it was still very, very limited in its reach when compared to media today. the fact is there are positive examples of actors/actresses/musicians of color today, and these "factor in" (however subconciously) to people's concept of beauty today. this cannot necessarily be said of centuries past.
back to your point about East Asians getting no love, I dunno. I dated a Viet Namese girl and I think she was fine.
Im in NYC and i see my share of Caucasoid Bumps but it still aint at the same rate as Latinas and Sistas.
I obviously didn't read the study, but I don't agree with this premise. I'm sure a billion or so chinamen may have a different opinion.
hilarious!
Maybe the message is that mixed race women are the future?
What message? Beyonce isnt some new style. Check Billie Holiday.
And last I checked, Beyonce is not 'mixed race' by the average American's standard. Both her parent's are African American, unless I missed something.
Yeah, but I always thought that her & other celebrities pictures get touched up to make them look less black.
So the average american knows the difference here.....?
But that's not making a case for different races to start making babies with each other, and straightening hair, using fair complexion foundation and shadowing to thin out noses is definitely nothing new.
Anyone remember the hair dye ads Jennifer Lopez appeared in when she first got big? She was about three foundation shades lighter than her natural skin that she was not even recognizable.
Maybe it all goes back to Kung Fu movies. A very common plot device is dudes confusing a woman for a man. A guy talking to Zhang Ziyi or Michelle Yeoh in a movie & calling her "Sir". And I'm like, "Yo dude, get your vision checked, that girl is FOINE!!!!" I've always been fascinated by that. Somebody needs to write a paper on that ish, for real. Like, KF movies & gender studies. Dub, hook it up.
This poast deserves further recognition.