Honestly, I'm a little surprised that Asian women are rated the least attractive given how heavily Asian women are fetishized. Though maybe my perception of how widespread the fetishization is is a bit skewed by living in the Bay Area (Where whitey comes to get his rice-picker on!).
Are Asian women that heavilly sweated or is that just a stereotype? I very seldom meet people who tell me that need some Asian lovin'.
See my previous point. For SOME MEN, yeah, they are heavily sweated, but I don't think it's a preference that exists across the board and the study comes to the same conclusion based on its research sample.
That said, it wasn't conducted in California...I'd be curious to see what the results would look like in a city like SF or LA. But in bumblefuck Middle America...I don't see there being a crazy high pref for East Asians.
Honestly, I'm a little surprised that Asian women are rated the least attractive given how heavily Asian women are fetishized. Though maybe my perception of how widespread the fetishization is is a bit skewed by living in the Bay Area (Where whitey comes to get his rice-picker on!).
Are Asian women that heavilly sweated or is that just a stereotype? I very seldom meet people who tell me that need some Asian lovin'.
WE NEVER KICKED IT.
Ha!!!
I met a girl recently with a small Jewish fetish. She told me my accent is a turn on. Now, whenever I see her, I'm like: "Oy! What a piece of gefilta fish I had for lunch!"
I met a girl recently with a small Jewish fetish. She told me my accent is a turn on. Now, whenever I see her, I'm like: "Oy! What a piece of gefilta fish I had for lunch!"
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit. I thought that was interesting...though oddly, Latinos are the group LEAST likely to find Asian men and women attractive (according to Fisman's study) yet aren't we supposed to be the nerded-out smart folks?
Honestly, I'm a little surprised that Asian women are rated the least attractive given how heavily Asian women are fetishized. Though maybe my perception of how widespread the fetishization is is a bit skewed by living in the Bay Area (Where whitey comes to get his rice-picker on!).
Are Asian women that heavilly sweated or is that just a stereotype? I very seldom meet people who tell me that need some Asian lovin'.
WE NEVER KICKED IT.
Ha!!!
I met a girl recently with a small Jewish fetish. She told me my accent is a turn on. Now, whenever I see her, I'm like: "Oy! What a piece of gefilta fish I had for lunch!"
Now that's good comedy!
Anyway, O-Dub makes a good point that this is a nationwide study instead of a local one, and yeah, Asian women probably aren't sweated that heavily nationwide. But here in the Bay, dudes definitely sweat the Asian women hard.
Just to add, I think it's very, very interesting that even other East Asians rank East Asians as the least attractive ethnic group (vs. White, Black and Latino).
I recently read an article in a Canadian magazine geared to the (more recent) immigrant experience about interracial/interreligious dating and marriage. Something that it touched on was the rate of incidence is an excellect way to gauge how tolerant a diverse society is - that folks are fine with working, socializing, etc. with people from other ethnicities, but once it came to romance and matrimony, especially of sons and daughters, the tune changes considerably.
The artricle cited East Asians and Asians as the groups least likely to marry outside of their group and I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes. But then we're getting into if attractivenes of others is conditioned or innate?
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit.
so CSLB has got a gang of Latina college co-eds on a prowl for that Jewish love?
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit.
so CSLB has got a gang of Latina college co-eds on a prowl for that Jewish love?
hmmmmm.....
Don't do it son!
Not CSULB actually, but yes, according to one So Cal dude, Jewish profs are the, ahem, chosen ones, amongst some Latinas.
I met a girl recently with a small Jewish fetish. She told me my accent is a turn on. Now, whenever I see her, I'm like: "Oy! What a piece of gefilta fish I had for lunch!"
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit. I thought that was interesting...though oddly, Latinos are the group LEAST likely to find Asian men and women attractive (according to Fisman's study) yet aren't we supposed to be the nerded-out smart folks?
Just to add, I think it's very, very interesting that even other East Asians rank East Asians as the least attractive ethnic group (vs. White, Black and Latino).
I recently read an article in a Canadian magazine geared to the (more recent) immigrant experience about interracial/interreligious dating and marriage. Something that it touched on was the rate of incidence is an excellect way to gauge how tolerant a diverse society is - that folks are fine with working, socializing, etc. with people from other ethnicities, but once it came to romance and matrimony, especially of sons and daughters, the tune changes considerably.
The artricle cited East Asians and Asians as the groups least likely to marry outside of their group and I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes. But then we're getting into if attractivenes of others is conditioned or innate?
That's an interesting trend in Canada, if true, since here in the U.S., East Asian women have the highest % of outmarriage of any ethnic group (Black men have the highest amongst men). It could be that there's a higher % of immigrants among the Canadian Asian population: outmarriage rates correlate with immigration status so that, the longer your family has been in the U.S., the more likely your progeny is to outmarry but this also has to do with spatial integration as well as social assimilation trends (though, of course, those two are also related).
But I don't get this part: "I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes."
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit.
so CSLB has got a gang of Latina college co-eds on a prowl for that Jewish love?
hmmmmm.....
Don't do it son!
Not CSULB actually, but yes, according to one So Cal dude, Jewish profs are the, ahem, chosen ones, amongst some Latinas.
I've dealt with this, a recent girlfriend of mine professed her love of jewish men due to them being, quirky, intelligent, and good with money.
Just to add, I think it's very, very interesting that even other East Asians rank East Asians as the least attractive ethnic group (vs. White, Black and Latino).
I recently read an article in a Canadian magazine geared to the (more recent) immigrant experience about interracial/interreligious dating and marriage. Something that it touched on was the rate of incidence is an excellect way to gauge how tolerant a diverse society is - that folks are fine with working, socializing, etc. with people from other ethnicities, but once it came to romance and matrimony, especially of sons and daughters, the tune changes considerably.
The artricle cited East Asians and Asians as the groups least likely to marry outside of their group and I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes. But then we're getting into if attractivenes of others is conditioned or innate?
That's an interesting trend in Canada, if true, since here in the U.S., East Asian women have the highest % of outmarriage of any ethnic group (Black men have the highest amongst men). It could be that there's a higher % of immigrants among the Canadian Asian population: outmarriage rates correlate with immigration status so that, the longer your family has been in the U.S., the more likely your progeny is to outmarry but this also has to do with spatial integration as well as social assimilation trends [/b](though, of course, those two are also related).
Yes, there are definitely different approaches and expectations in the US compared to Canada in these areas.
But I don't get this part: "I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes."
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves[/b]. I think you might have misread that?
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
Nah - I really doubt that. I think it has much, much more to do with how standards of beauty in American (and presumably also Canadian) media is dominated by Whiteness to the exclusion of all others.
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
Nah - I really doubt that. I think it has much, much more to do with how standards of beauty in American (and presumably also Canadian) media is dominated by Whiteness to the exclusion of all others.
Really though? I feel American media pushes the exotic-sexy-ethnic thing pretty hard these days. (I am not saying it's in a positive/progressive way). "To the exclusion of all others" is too strong a phrase I think.
Turn on MTV (which I imagine represents a huge percentage of the media to which young people are exposed these days) and "to the exclusion of all others" I think would seem pretty off the mark.
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
Nah - I really doubt that. I think it has much, much more to do with how standards of beauty in American (and presumably also Canadian) media is dominated by Whiteness to the exclusion of all others.
Really though? I feel American media pushes the exotic-sexy-ethnic thing pretty hard these days. (I am not saying it's in a positive/progressive way). "To the exclusion of all others" is too strong a phrase I think.
Turn on MTV (which I imagine represents a huge percentage of the media to which young people are exposed these days) and "to the exclusion of all others" I think would seem pretty off the mark.
You're talking about a relatively recent - and limited - trend vs., you know, centuries of European beauty ideals being celebrated and exported.
Walk into a movie theater. Watch network TV.
Are things changing since the days when the only Black women in entertainment were mammy figures? Sure. But we're far, far, far away from some kind of racialized equality.
but since when were we talking about equality? aren't we talking about the propogation of beauty norms?
full "equality" is far, far from white beauty ideals being represented "to the exclusion of all else."
when I turn on MTV these days (an admittedly not-so-common occurence) I see a pretty healthy representation by -- for lack of a better term -- sexy chicks of color. Beyonce and Rhianna come to mind; those two alone have been nearly ubiquitous over the last 2-3 years, no?
and while the timeframe has been limited (vs. centuries of European ideals), I'd say a good percentage of the folks sampled in the survey you guys are referencing would have been strongly influenced by the trend. assuming the sample included early- to mid-20's, those folks would surely have spent their "formative" years (i.e. teenage TV-watching and internet-surfing years) seeing plenty of non-white sex symbols.
but since when were we talking about equality? aren't we talking about the propogation of beauty norms?
full "equality" is far, far from white beauty ideals being represented "to the exclusion of all else."
when I turn on MTV these days (an admittedly not-so-common occurence) I see a pretty healthy representation by -- for lack of a better term -- sexy chicks of color. Beyonce and Rhianna come to mind; those two alone have been nearly ubiquitous over the last 2-3 years, no?
Would you prefer if I used, instead "the relative exclusion of all else"?
You're taking about a HANDFUL of exceptions vs. the overwhelming, practical monopoly of Whiteness in 20th century popular media. Ain't no mystery, god.
It's also funny that you're using MTV as some kind of demographic slice of America considering their reluctance to show any Black people on the channel until "Thriller."
you know, centuries of European beauty ideals being celebrated and exported.
White women aren't what's happeing in the media. As for the centuries of European beauty, think of all those paintings of fat broads. Ain't no one fcukin' with that today.
But if we're talking about East Asian girls, take a look at the male figures you see on MTV. It's very White or Black when it comes to that side of the equation, and you still see the same sort of "dangerous black man" complex presented in media images. There is very little representation for Asian males in pop culture media, and when it does happen it's often as a joke or silly character.
So yeah, sure, things have changed so that now all guys can gawk at hot women of all backgrounds, but for the ladies it's still white guys for the most part.
you know, centuries of European beauty ideals being celebrated and exported.
White women aren't what's happeing in the media. As for the centuries of European beauty, think of all those paintings of fat broads. Ain't no one fcukin' with that today.
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
Nah - I really doubt that. I think it has much, much more to do with how standards of beauty in American (and presumably also Canadian) media is dominated by Whiteness to the exclusion of all others.
I agree with this but would not discount the reaction to marriage pressures as much as you. Hating everything your parents stand for counts for a lot of behaviours, for the younger population anyway!
I live in a major city known for its diversity, in a country known for its decidely non-melting pot approach to different cultures, and I am an immigrant myself, so my experience and perspective is definitely a result of that; I do think that while things like (lack of) representation and definitions of the ideal in the media are influences, that people live in close quarters to, are going to school and work with all kinds of people also contributes to how their eyes and hearts roam.
I think I am looking at a broader definiton of "attractiveness" than the paper means, too. Not just physical attraction, but the appeal of being in an actual relationship with someone.
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
When I hang out with Asian friends & I point out an Asian girl that's hot, they almost always say: "Dude, she looks just like my cousin". I guess its like when I talk to Jewish girls & they talk to me in that whiney voice & its kills the vibe. Feels like I'm talking to a relative or something.
you know, centuries of European beauty ideals being celebrated and exported.
White women aren't what's happeing in the media. As for the centuries of European beauty, think of all those paintings of fat broads. Ain't no one fcukin' with that today.
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
When I hang out with Asian friends & I point out an Asian girl that's hot, they almost always say: "Dude, she looks just like my cousin". I guess its like when I talk to Jewish girls & they talk to me in that whiney voice & its kills the vibe. Feels like I'm talking to a relative or something.
my three lettered canadain dudes are on all types of sillyness this week.
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
When I hang out with Asian friends & I point out an Asian girl that's hot, they almost always say: "Dude, she looks just like my cousin".
I can definitely relate to this too-familiar-for-comfort feeling, but it is beginning to fade as I grow older.
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
When I hang out with Asian friends & I point out an Asian girl that's hot, they almost always say: "Dude, she looks just like my cousin".
I can definitely relate to this too-familiar-for-comfort feeling, but it is beginning to fade as I grow older.
I think this is a very real and relevant distinction. Casual dating (younger years) v. getting serious. It seems by that point, the majority of folks are looking for cultural similarities more than differences (reinforced by relatives, etc.).
It's also funny that you're using MTV as some kind of demographic slice of America considering their reluctance to show any Black people on the channel until "Thriller."
again though: Thriller was 1982. Teenagers who were watching it are now 40. Assuming 40 is the top end, age-wise, of the survey sample, pretty much everyone since then has been exposed to sex symbols of color.
And not only has the representation of sex symbols of color increased since 1982, but so has the viewership/influence of outlets such as MTV. Thus, the younger the individual sampled, the more exposure to sex symbols of color they would have had. The low-end of the sample group, age-wise, (say 16-19 yr olds) would have had DRASTICALLY more exposure to sex symbols of color than the top-end, and would skew the findings accordingly I think.
the European beauty myth monopoly[/b] , while it lasted for CENTURIES and influenced VAST bodies of art and literature, is now totally -- and irreversably -- over.
it still dominates (no doubt), but we can no longer talk of a true monopoly. the vast body of white-European-beauty-ideal-inspired art and literature means next to nothing to today's kids anyway, and will mean increasingly little in the future.
I no longer think the default concept of "beauty" for a young American today is "white."
or, at least, it's not as self-evidently "white" as you make it out to be (e.g. as self-evidently "white" as the concept of beauty would have been for a European for the last thousand years). the picture in America today is far, far more complicated I think.
Comments
See my previous point. For SOME MEN, yeah, they are heavily sweated, but I don't think it's a preference that exists across the board and the study comes to the same conclusion based on its research sample.
That said, it wasn't conducted in California...I'd be curious to see what the results would look like in a city like SF or LA. But in bumblefuck Middle America...I don't see there being a crazy high pref for East Asians.
Ha!!!
I met a girl recently with a small Jewish fetish. She told me my accent is a turn on. Now, whenever I see her, I'm like: "Oy! What a piece of gefilta fish I had for lunch!"
This reminds of something I heard from a Jewish professor out here - that his Latina students sweat him heavily b/c of the perception that Jewish dudes are all intellectual and shit. I thought that was interesting...though oddly, Latinos are the group LEAST likely to find Asian men and women attractive (according to Fisman's study) yet aren't we supposed to be the nerded-out smart folks?
(O-Dub's fishing for some of that
Now that's good comedy!
Anyway, O-Dub makes a good point that this is a nationwide study instead of a local one, and yeah, Asian women probably aren't sweated that heavily nationwide. But here in the Bay, dudes definitely sweat the Asian women hard.
I recently read an article in a Canadian magazine geared to the (more recent) immigrant experience about interracial/interreligious dating and marriage. Something that it touched on was the rate of incidence is an excellect way to gauge how tolerant a diverse society is - that folks are fine with working, socializing, etc. with people from other ethnicities, but once it came to romance and matrimony, especially of sons and daughters, the tune changes considerably.
The artricle cited East Asians and Asians as the groups least likely to marry outside of their group and I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes. But then we're getting into if attractivenes of others is conditioned or innate?
so CSLB has got a gang of Latina college co-eds on a prowl for that Jewish love?
hmmmmm.....
Don't do it son!
Not CSULB actually, but yes, according to one So Cal dude, Jewish profs are the, ahem, chosen ones, amongst some Latinas.
BULLSHIT!
I FIND O-DUB VERY ATTRACTIVE.
page me
That's an interesting trend in Canada, if true, since here in the U.S., East Asian women have the highest % of outmarriage of any ethnic group (Black men have the highest amongst men). It could be that there's a higher % of immigrants among the Canadian Asian population: outmarriage rates correlate with immigration status so that, the longer your family has been in the U.S., the more likely your progeny is to outmarry but this also has to do with spatial integration as well as social assimilation trends (though, of course, those two are also related).
But I don't get this part:
"I wonder if this contributes to the notion of attractiveness in this paper's findings; a case of the forbidden fruit being more appealing and rebelling against parents' wishes."
The study said that East Asians are considered THE LEAST ATTRACTIVE amongst respondents, including East Asians themselves. I think you might have misread that?
I've dealt with this, a recent girlfriend of mine professed her love of jewish men due to them being, quirky, intelligent, and good with money.
Jewish dudes/Asian girls love connection is already well established.
Yep...
Yes, there are definitely different approaches and expectations in the US compared to Canada in these areas.
I should have been more specific, sorry, I meant that East Asians may find other East Asians unattractive due to parental pressures to marry within the same ethinicity.
Nah - I really doubt that. I think it has much, much more to do with how standards of beauty in American (and presumably also Canadian) media is dominated by Whiteness to the exclusion of all others.
Really though? I feel American media pushes the exotic-sexy-ethnic thing pretty hard these days. (I am not saying it's in a positive/progressive way). "To the exclusion of all others" is too strong a phrase I think.
Turn on MTV (which I imagine represents a huge percentage of the media to which young people are exposed these days) and "to the exclusion of all others" I think would seem pretty off the mark.
You're talking about a relatively recent - and limited - trend vs., you know, centuries of European beauty ideals being celebrated and exported.
Walk into a movie theater. Watch network TV.
Are things changing since the days when the only Black women in entertainment were mammy figures? Sure. But we're far, far, far away from some kind of racialized equality.
but since when were we talking about equality? aren't we talking about the propogation of beauty norms?
full "equality" is far, far from white beauty ideals being represented "to the exclusion of all else."
when I turn on MTV these days (an admittedly not-so-common occurence) I see a pretty healthy representation by -- for lack of a better term -- sexy chicks of color. Beyonce and Rhianna come to mind; those two alone have been nearly ubiquitous over the last 2-3 years, no?
Would you prefer if I used, instead "the relative exclusion of all else"?
You're taking about a HANDFUL of exceptions vs. the overwhelming, practical monopoly of Whiteness in 20th century popular media. Ain't no mystery, god.
It's also funny that you're using MTV as some kind of demographic slice of America considering their reluctance to show any Black people on the channel until "Thriller."
White women aren't what's happeing in the media. As for the centuries of European beauty, think of all those paintings of fat broads. Ain't no one fcukin' with that today.
So yeah, sure, things have changed so that now all guys can gawk at hot women of all backgrounds, but for the ladies it's still white guys for the most part.
We really need a "Please be serious" graemlin.
I agree with this but would not discount the reaction to marriage pressures as much as you. Hating everything your parents stand for counts for a lot of behaviours, for the younger population anyway!
I live in a major city known for its diversity, in a country known for its decidely non-melting pot approach to different cultures, and I am an immigrant myself, so my experience and perspective is definitely a result of that; I do think that while things like (lack of) representation and definitions of the ideal in the media are influences, that people live in close quarters to, are going to school and work with all kinds of people also contributes to how their eyes and hearts roam.
I think I am looking at a broader definiton of "attractiveness" than the paper means, too. Not just physical attraction, but the appeal of being in an actual relationship with someone.
When I hang out with Asian friends & I point out an Asian girl that's hot, they almost always say: "Dude, she looks just like my cousin". I guess its like when I talk to Jewish girls & they talk to me in that whiney voice & its kills the vibe. Feels like I'm talking to a relative or something.
my three lettered canadain dudes are on all types of sillyness this week.
I can definitely relate to this too-familiar-for-comfort feeling, but it is beginning to fade as I grow older.
I think this is a very real and relevant distinction. Casual dating (younger years) v. getting serious. It seems by that point, the majority of folks are looking for cultural similarities more than differences (reinforced by relatives, etc.).
again though: Thriller was 1982. Teenagers who were watching it are now 40. Assuming 40 is the top end, age-wise, of the survey sample, pretty much everyone since then has been exposed to sex symbols of color.
And not only has the representation of sex symbols of color increased since 1982, but so has the viewership/influence of outlets such as MTV. Thus, the younger the individual sampled, the more exposure to sex symbols of color they would have had. The low-end of the sample group, age-wise, (say 16-19 yr olds) would have had DRASTICALLY more exposure to sex symbols of color than the top-end, and would skew the findings accordingly I think.
the European beauty myth monopoly[/b] , while it lasted for CENTURIES and influenced VAST bodies of art and literature, is now totally -- and irreversably -- over.
it still dominates (no doubt), but we can no longer talk of a true monopoly. the vast body of white-European-beauty-ideal-inspired art and literature means next to nothing to today's kids anyway, and will mean increasingly little in the future.
I no longer think the default concept of "beauty" for a young American today is "white."
or, at least, it's not as self-evidently "white" as you make it out to be (e.g. as self-evidently "white" as the concept of beauty would have been for a European for the last thousand years). the picture in America today is far, far more complicated I think.