And the short story is that Bell made some really phenomenally bad business decisions but it's hard running most labels and Stax would have been tough to run under most circumstances even with smarter leadership.
What happened to Stewart is a cotdamn shame and disgrace though.
Al Bell really needed to own up to this in the film. He pussy footed around it, but never came out and said, "You know, I really fucked that up." Stewart wasn't a great business person to begin with (the Atlantic fineprint is a a perfect example), and he trusted that Bell was taking the company in the right direction. That being said, Stewart should have been watching credits and debits. I mean, who the fuck was that statistition? That was the shark jumping moment for sure.
In the end it's always excess, which is a great lesson for all the junior circuit label owners out there. Just because you landed a Levis commercial doesn't mean you need a Mercedes.
If you recall, the same thing that sunk Stax was the same thing that bankrupted Vee Jay - trying to expand too far in too short a time, with money thrown around everywhere. (See if you can track down Record Row, the PBS special from ten years ago about Chicago R&B in the fifties and sixties, for the documentary story about Vee Jay.)
Great watch last night. Bowman's book is the definitive account if you want the hairy details. For me the best part was watching the Sam and Dave clips. One the of the most underrated duos of all time. I probably played "I Thank You" or "Hold On" at 90% of the gigs I ever played. The clip of the them singing "You Don't Know Like I Know" is a masterpiece of gutbucket soul. One thing I wish had been emphasized more was the improtance of women within the creative and business structure of Stax. Deanie Parker, who was featured a number of times, was essential to the admin side of the things and Bettye Crutcher and others wrote a lot of great songs. This was also revoluntionary for the time.
I thought it was funny to have a noted Stax hatter, Jack Ashford, speak on Motown, only to have Rufus seconds later say how much more raw Stax was than Motown. I heart Rufus.
It was a good documentary. I know some of the people involved in the making of it and they are quite aware of the shortcomings. However, I think they should have spent a little time in the history of Satillite and the name change...the subsidiaries..but I supppose that is just the record nerd in me....
...but did we REALLY need to hear what Bono thought? What was he adding besides his goofy mug? Did he fund the thing?
i know they had some cool stax items back in the day, from high ball glasses to a leather bag stamped with the snap logo.
They had that back in the day? Not saying you're wrong, but that sounds like the souvenir items they have in the Stax gift shop today!
Yeah, but there were OG Stax items...I have some OG finger snap shot glasses. All the shit in the gift shop today is emblazened with "MUSEUM OF AMERICAN SOUL MUSIC" and has trademark and copyright shit on it. The OG stuff doesnt have that on it....
I thought it was funny to have a noted Stax hatter, Jack Ashford, speak on Motown, only to have Rufus seconds later say how much more raw Stax was than Motown. I heart Rufus.
Yeah, Motown was cool, but I always got the distinct impression that the Funk Brothers (as well as the Chess studio band) were older, high-and-mighty jazz guys who were pissed that they had to make these pop records to earn a living. Booker T. & the MG's, however, evidently grew up on R&B, and weren't too proud to collaborate or even hang out with the artists.
I always did wonder if the Stax and Motown people ever met up...you know, get to know the competition (without giving away your secrets). Did Al Bell and Berry Gordy ever go to lunch and compare strategies? Did Duck Dunn and James Jamerson ever sit around and talk shop about hip bass patterns? Did Hayes & Porter ever chew the fat with HDH? I reckon that since these were the two biggest soul labels in the sixties, they would have crossed paths at some point.
I always did wonder if the Stax and Motown people ever met up...you know, get to know the competition (without giving away your secrets). Did Al Bell and Berry Gordy ever go to lunch and compare strategies? Did Duck Dunn and James Jamerson ever sit around and talk shop about hip bass patterns? Did Hayes & Porter ever chew the fat with HDH? I reckon that since these were the two biggest soul labels in the sixties, they would have crossed paths at some point.
And if they did meet up like that, wouldn't you have fucking killed to be a fly on the wall at the meetings?
I always did wonder if the Stax and Motown people ever met up...you know, get to know the competition (without giving away your secrets). Did Al Bell and Berry Gordy ever go to lunch and compare strategies? Did Duck Dunn and James Jamerson ever sit around and talk shop about hip bass patterns? Did Hayes & Porter ever chew the fat with HDH? I reckon that since these were the two biggest soul labels in the sixties, they would have crossed paths at some point.
And if they did meet up like that, wouldn't you have fucking killed to be a fly on the wall at the meetings?
Loved the show. I missed some of the end because after Bono Duprie and Costello I up and left the room in disgust.
I'm sure you know that Stax recorded some in Detroit and leased some Detroit recordings. I'm trying to think of artists who recorded for both labels. There must be at least someone like Homer Banks who shows up on both. There is no way that touring Memphis artists never met touring Detroit artists on the road.
it was great showing Otis singing My Girl right after the the Temps. Did Motown ever cover any Stax songs? What other Motown songs made their way to Stax records?
I can't think of any.
Doesn't Jim Stewart still own East Memphis Publishing? That catalog is off the hook. Not only all the great Stax songs (including Wilson Pickett's collabs with Cropper and others) but also Hi studio stuff from Al Green and Willie Mitchell. If he still has ownership in that we can stop crying.
I think people are a little hard on Al Bell. Stax is just one of a long list of indepents that went under. Good times people spend money, banks loan money, bad times you wonder where it went. Remember that Atlantic show a few weeks ago. They sold out cheap to Warner the first time they came knocking because they saw so many independants go under. All that gangster stuff was bs, and too sad. Did you see at the end it said that one gangster is now the minister at a church in Harlem? It might have been Abyssnian Baptist.
I'd love to see two hours just on: Al Bell Sir Mack Rice Booker T Jones Rufus Thomas Staple Singers
They talked about Otis singing the horn parts to all the musicians. Check out Otis records and other Stax records from the same time. The horn parts are always better on the Otis records.
Columbia is a big reason for the collapse of Stax. Stax gave them product and they never released it. Fantasy has now released a lot of that stuff.
OK, that is all for now. I thought it was great, I'm still thinking about it. I love Stax. Just think how bad it would have been if they had kept cutting to Bono and Nora Jones explaining the meaning of soul like some docs do. I just wish it was longer. A lot longer.
Caught the end of this last night on PBS in San Francisco. I basically watched the downfall. Has anyone seen this on bittorrent? I've been looking and can't come up.
it was great showing Otis singing My Girl right after the the Temps. Did Motown ever cover any Stax songs?
David Ruffin once covered Johnnie Taylor's "I Could Never Be President." Bruce Willis redid the Staple Singers'"Respect Yourself."
[What other Motown songs made their way to Stax records?
"Don't Let Her Be Your Baby" by the Del-Rays comes to mind (originally done on Motown by the Contours). I believe Eddie Floyd took a crack at "My Girl" as well.
I'd love to see two hours just on: Staple Singers
I remember there being a PBS doc on the Staples a few years ago.
Columbia is a big reason for the collapse of Stax. Stax gave them product and they never released it.
I always wondered about that. Hardly any Stax recordings from the '73-74 era mention being "distributed by CBS" on the covers or the labels.
I'm sure you know that Stax recorded some in Detroit and leased some Detroit recordings. I'm trying to think of artists who recorded for both labels.
Mable John record for both Motown and Stax
Also: Bill Cosby, Billy Eckstine, Major Lance and Kim Weston.
I don't think I knew that Major Lance recorded for either. I can't remember having anything that wasn't on Epic or Maybe something that Curtis owned. I need to step up my 45 game.
The Falcons were a Detroit group. 3 members have close ties to Stax Wilson Pickett, Mack Rice and Eddie Flyod.
I'm sure you know that Stax recorded some in Detroit and leased some Detroit recordings. I'm trying to think of artists who recorded for both labels.
Mable John record for both Motown and Stax
Also: Bill Cosby, Billy Eckstine, Major Lance and Kim Weston.
I don't think I knew that Major Lance recorded for either. I can't remember having anything that wasn't on Epic or Maybe something that Curtis owned. I need to step up my 45 game.
He had three singles on Volt (Stax sub-label) in '71-72, then in the disco era he had an album on Soul (a Motown subsidiary).
And if that weren't enough, turns out he and Al Jackson were co-owners of Osiris Records in 1975. This quickly dissolved when Jackson was murdered.
Stax licensed a good number of Detroit releases during the Al Bell era (as part of the 'we need a new catalogue' strategy). Some good ones are Dino and Doc 'Mighty Cold Winter' and Reggie Milner's 'Soul Machine'. These releases usually came out on Volt.
Also, any moment with Otis in that special was the bee's knees.
I was really struck by how much Otis' performences were influenced by Sam Cooke. I've heard this many times, but never really heard it that much in his music. But his sweaters and approach to the mic and the way he presented himself seemed to owe a lot to Sam.
Stax licensed a good number of Detroit releases during the Al Bell era (as part of the 'we need a new catalogue' strategy). Some good ones are Dino and Doc 'Mighty Cold Winter' and Reggie Milner's 'Soul Machine'. These releases usually came out on Volt.
Also, Volt released a single by Joni Wilson that used the backing track of the Parliaments "All Your Goodies Are Gone"
And as far as the Columbia Staples Singers, are you sure it wasnt some left-overs from their Epic era you are thinking of that they released after their success at Stax?
Al also farmed out a lot of the recording to Detroit, hence the Tony Hestor and Dramatics recordings....a lot to Muscle Shoals as well....
I didn't realize there was a 30th anniversary edition of that out, btw. Haveta pick that up asap.
Also, any moment with Otis in that special was the bee's knees.
Rufus is just a great personality in this. Nowadays, the storming the field thing would devolve into a soccer game fight, if people were told they had to go back into the stands.
Another thing that bothered me was the use of Ricky Vincent as chief music historian as opposed to Rob Bowman. Vincent didn't embarrass himself but to leave out the unquestioned authority on Stax is just silly. Anyone got the DL on his absence?
when bowman lectured in NJ this past year, he hinted on the documentary. he said he was involved, but not to what extent. i agree with you wu. i wonder why the guy was absent?
Comments
If you recall, the same thing that sunk Stax was the same thing that bankrupted Vee Jay - trying to expand too far in too short a time, with money thrown around everywhere. (See if you can track down Record Row, the PBS special from ten years ago about Chicago R&B in the fifties and sixties, for the documentary story about Vee Jay.)
They had that back in the day? Not saying you're wrong, but that sounds like the souvenir items they have in the Stax gift shop today!
It was a good documentary. I know some of the people involved in the making of it and they are quite aware of the shortcomings. However, I think they should have spent a little time in the history of Satillite and the name change...the subsidiaries..but I supppose that is just the record nerd in me....
Yeah, but there were OG Stax items...I have some OG finger snap shot glasses. All the shit in the gift shop today is emblazened with "MUSEUM OF AMERICAN SOUL MUSIC" and has trademark and copyright shit on it. The OG stuff doesnt have that on it....
Yeah, Motown was cool, but I always got the distinct impression that the Funk Brothers (as well as the Chess studio band) were older, high-and-mighty jazz guys who were pissed that they had to make these pop records to earn a living. Booker T. & the MG's, however, evidently grew up on R&B, and weren't too proud to collaborate or even hang out with the artists.
I always did wonder if the Stax and Motown people ever met up...you know, get to know the competition (without giving away your secrets). Did Al Bell and Berry Gordy ever go to lunch and compare strategies? Did Duck Dunn and James Jamerson ever sit around and talk shop about hip bass patterns? Did Hayes & Porter ever chew the fat with HDH? I reckon that since these were the two biggest soul labels in the sixties, they would have crossed paths at some point.
And if they did meet up like that, wouldn't you have fucking killed to be a fly on the wall at the meetings?
I couldn't find either and I did a search on my direct TV for any future broadcast and didn't see one
is there a place online where I can find this?
Loved the show. I missed some of the end because after Bono Duprie and Costello I up and left the room in disgust.
I'm sure you know that Stax recorded some in Detroit and leased some Detroit recordings. I'm trying to think of artists who recorded for both labels. There must be at least someone like Homer Banks who shows up on both. There is no way that touring Memphis artists never met touring Detroit artists on the road.
it was great showing Otis singing My Girl right after the the Temps. Did Motown ever cover any Stax songs? What other Motown songs made their way to Stax records?
I can't think of any.
Doesn't Jim Stewart still own East Memphis Publishing? That catalog is off the hook. Not only all the great Stax songs (including Wilson Pickett's collabs with Cropper and others) but also Hi studio stuff from Al Green and Willie Mitchell. If he still has ownership in that we can stop crying.
I think people are a little hard on Al Bell. Stax is just one of a long list of indepents that went under. Good times people spend money, banks loan money, bad times you wonder where it went. Remember that Atlantic show a few weeks ago. They sold out cheap to Warner the first time they came knocking because they saw so many independants go under. All that gangster stuff was bs, and too sad. Did you see at the end it said that one gangster is now the minister at a church in Harlem? It might have been Abyssnian Baptist.
I'd love to see two hours just on:
Al Bell
Sir Mack Rice
Booker T Jones
Rufus Thomas
Staple Singers
They talked about Otis singing the horn parts to all the musicians. Check out Otis records and other Stax records from the same time. The horn parts are always better on the Otis records.
Columbia is a big reason for the collapse of Stax. Stax gave them product and they never released it. Fantasy has now released a lot of that stuff.
OK, that is all for now. I thought it was great, I'm still thinking about it. I love Stax. Just think how bad it would have been if they had kept cutting to Bono and Nora Jones explaining the meaning of soul like some docs do. I just wish it was longer. A lot longer.
Think how big Sony is in LA. Columbia is still killing Stax product.
Mable John record for both Motown and Stax
Also: Bill Cosby, Billy Eckstine, Major Lance and Kim Weston.
David Ruffin once covered Johnnie Taylor's "I Could Never Be President." Bruce Willis redid the Staple Singers'"Respect Yourself."
"Don't Let Her Be Your Baby" by the Del-Rays comes to mind (originally done on Motown by the Contours). I believe Eddie Floyd took a crack at "My Girl" as well.
I remember there being a PBS doc on the Staples a few years ago.
I always wondered about that. Hardly any Stax recordings from the '73-74 era mention being "distributed by CBS" on the covers or the labels.
hey, you asked!
I don't think I knew that Major Lance recorded for either. I can't remember having anything that wasn't on Epic or Maybe something that Curtis owned. I need to step up my 45 game.
The Falcons were a Detroit group. 3 members have close ties to Stax Wilson Pickett, Mack Rice and Eddie Flyod.
I didn't realize there was a 30th anniversary edition of that out, btw. Haveta pick that up asap.
Also, any moment with Otis in that special was the bee's knees.
He had three singles on Volt (Stax sub-label) in '71-72, then in the disco era he had an album on Soul (a Motown subsidiary).
And if that weren't enough, turns out he and Al Jackson were co-owners of Osiris Records in 1975. This quickly dissolved when Jackson was murdered.
I was really struck by how much Otis' performences were influenced by Sam Cooke. I've heard this many times, but never really heard it that much in his music. But his sweaters and approach to the mic and the way he presented himself seemed to owe a lot to Sam.
Also, Volt released a single by Joni Wilson that used the backing track of the Parliaments "All Your Goodies Are Gone"
And as far as the Columbia Staples Singers, are you sure it wasnt some left-overs from their Epic era you are thinking of that they released after their success at Stax?
Al also farmed out a lot of the recording to Detroit, hence the Tony Hestor and Dramatics recordings....a lot to Muscle Shoals as well....
Sam & Dave[/b]=
please babay baby please