i find this to be digusting. It is pretty sad, yet not too surprising that companies like Nike would try and use this as a way to market thier line of shoes with "extreme sports". Those recent coca-cola ads where they have those hipster kids "doing a documentary" talking about "finding an independent underground radio station", with mentions to "the weather underground" documentary (also ian mackaye and the rest of fugazi had thier hands in composing the score for that), and skateboarding. I've seen recent ads even for stuff as square as like banking commercials with 20-somethings with records in the background--- this to me is different from sampling -- and obviously, if anyone has seen the spoof of minor threat with "miner threat" , which was done by some scene kids , which was all done in fun, and i imagine dischord had no problem with it -- but they have always been against the marketing side of things. for instance, those minor threat and fugazi t-shirts that were/are floating around were illegit -- but they didn't sue as long as the makers had put a portion of the money to a good charity. but this is done in a manner that is pretty distasteful. it isn't kids doing this -- it is awful, cheesy corporate marketing. there is a difference between "kids" sampling and then corporations sampling from the little guy. there is a difference between "kids" downloading music from thier favorite musicians and the record companies not giving performers much royalty, rights to thier music, or health insurance.
also -- let's talk about negativland. those familiar with their sampling (what some refer to as "stealing")-- what do you think they would think of this?
I think Nike should pay up, no doubt. But just to say it's bad... come on.
These are the same people who will love someone who is "underground" and then turn around in hate when they blow up. Everybody has to make some money somehow, I just think everybody involved should get a piece of it.
is it disgusting? definitely. is it illegal without permission? i'm not so sure. while it pains me to see nike turn around and appropriate anti-establishment culture without giving proper credit, I think that the design here isn't as damning as it might seem. now nike using minor threat's logo, that's a bit more tricky:
note the DC hardcore insignia and the "major" threat logo. okay, yeah, i'm sickened.
but dudes don't even get me started on STUSSY. if you don't know, stussy is extremely relevant in this level of "culture sampling" discourse. be sure to check this out:
basically, freshjive (that semi-washed-up rag company that was big with ravers in the early 90s) recently did a spoof of their competition by making shirts that ripped off their competitors' logos, like this:
seems stussy didn't like that so much and is suing freshjive over it! this coming from a company that once prided itself on fake gucci patterns with the double s. ridiculous.
Upon first glance, I thought the MAJOR THREAT design was actually ANTI Nike. Like it was calling them out on sweatshops and being a ruthless corporation, and juxtaposed with the old Minor Threat design just made it that much more poignant, like what are couple punk kids gonna do against this big evil company?
The fact that they're using it as an ad.. is just weird to me. Post modernism is truly a mind fuck. Nothing's sacred.
Nike is doing a good job with taking over skate culture.
They still make the hottest shoes, so whatever. The only people who would be pissed off at that ad wouldnt buy nikes anyways, so who cares?
Plaese for this to be sarcasm.
kind of. not really though. I mean, i can see why kids might be a bit tiffed, and minor thread certainly could get mad....
but I mean, a nike lawsuit would probably bring some free publicity, meaning a chance to air out whatever beef they have with that giant corporation, and they should be happy about that.
minor thread: a thread yet to be commented on by either faux_rills or jonny pay$; a thread focused on celibate vegan interests
Well since I'm here...
I agree with Mike. Nike should certainly pay up something....
But chances are the guy(s) who designed this or at least whose idea it was is a kid like many of yall, probably LOVES Minor Threat and thought he was making some cool shit. A lot of these marketing guys are just successful/sold-out (call it what you want) versions of what a lot of yall already do here. They might have thought of this as a tribute.
I was sickened by the Stark Reality thread. I don't care if it's BEP, a snitch is a snitch and you don't get no respect for that shit. Bunch of fucking wetmouths.
i saw this on pitchfork this morning and i almost spit out my coffee!!!
its an interesting predicament... im sure 95% of the audience for this campaign / tour wouldnt even know who the fuck minor threat are.. OTHER than as a t-shirt - logo design.
it always amazed me back in my punk rock / skater days how many clueless fucks there were who wore the "uniform" of the culture but had no idea who 90% of the bands whose t-shirts they were wearing even were, let alone what the X's stood for. I can only imagine its ten times worse now.
The other thing is im sure mackaye et al will issue some kind of soap box statement via "the underground" but i can't imagine it coming to anything more than that... Maybe its because i burned out on that straight edge self righteous Fugazi BS A LONG TIME AGO but i really don't imagine Dischord and co have the wherewithall to take on Nike over something like this.
its a classic example of the mainstream taking an underground icon and doing whatever they want with it knowing full well that the target doesnt have the time or resources to fight back...
R Crumb's Keep on Truckin slogan for example...
alternate theory
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
I'm sure anyone who knows Dischord knows they don't need an opportunity to get rich.
As "sad" and "disgusting" as this is (which it certainly is to some degree), I think it's more productive to realize that it's symptomatic of how the culture industry appropriates, co-opts, and markets all for the sole purpose of acruing capital. Of course, that don't make it "right" (nor does it necessarily make it "wrong"), but it is a reality.
It's just symptomatic of something much larger at play: the logic of marketing and late capitalism.
It's pretty much why I think "Roger and Me" is a stupid movie (though totally entertaining). Michael Moore is making these corporate big wigs out to be the enemy, as if the problem(s) with capitalism is(are) that a couple bad apple CEOs are just mean and heartless bad guys or something. Uh, no, dude. This is the logic of capitalism. This is how the world works. Cheaper labor equals more profit. So, if you can go to Mexico to get cheaper labor, holler. Morality doesn't come into play here. Capitalism is by its very nature amoral.
In other words, don't hate the player (Nike), hate the game (good ol' capitalism).
Shit still sucks, though.
If I was Ian Mackeye, I'd be pissed regardless if it was or wasn't "the logic of capitalism."
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
I'm sure anyone who knows Dischord knows they don't need an opportunity to get rich.
word homies are PAID fer sure.
but i think the general impression in the indy rock / punk / emo whatever world is that bands like Fugazi are only doin it "for the love" and money has nothing to do with anything...
i have alot of personal baggage with this stuff from my oldschool straight edge youth... i can remember being in bands and we wouldnt even settup merch tables for our 7"s and shirts.. let alone announce that we had them for sale (how people were suppossed to know about them i dont really know) as that was just an unacceptable "sell out" move...
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
I'm sure anyone who knows Dischord knows they don't need an opportunity to get rich.
Thereby answering the question:
Do $5 covers add up over time?
UNRELATED: My dude has been best friends with Ian for 20+ years and their bands used to play together all the time. He has an old showbill that listed his band, Minor Threat, and Trouble Funk. When I commented on how dope I thought the poster was, he said:
"That's nothin'. I wish I had the misprinted ones that said MINOR TREAT[/b]."
I think that would've made for a much better Nike ad.
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
I'm sure anyone who knows Dischord knows they don't need an opportunity to get rich.
word homies are PAID fer sure.
but i think the general impression in the indy rock / punk / emo whatever world is that bands like Fugazi are only doin it "for the love" and money has nothing to do with anything...
i have alot of personal baggage with this stuff from my oldschool straight edge youth... i can remember being in bands and we wouldnt even settup merch tables for our 7"s and shirts.. let alone announce that we had them for sale (how people were suppossed to know about them i dont really know) as that was just an unacceptable "sell out" move...
I think the point here is that a socially responsible community based company-which Discord surely is- is being exploited by a huge multi-national Nike that might make nice looking shoes, but doesn't do much for lifting people up. Let's get Micheal Moore* in here with a Q&A in a Nike sweatshop to settle this.
*you can argue that Mooremoney isn't any better that the kettles he berates, but he does promote some good ideas of corporate responibility.
I was sickened by the Stark Reality thread. I don't care if it's BEP, a snitch is a snitch and you don't get no respect for that shit. Bunch of fucking wetmouths.
Please be advised that Warren Griffin III bka Warren G has been contacted regarding your use of the lowercase letter g in your new business endeavor. Pursuant to existing trademark claims..blah blah blah...precedent...ask Garth Brooks...all claims to herein....blah..cease and desist...
The whole argument of is it legal? well, it's a gray area but think of this if Minor threat were to reform and use the nike logo with a small change would they not be sued? Of course they would! It's another example of how corporations continue to get more rights and people in general get less. It's ok for them to borrow and sample just not others. I'm off to listen to negativeland now, Just got to signoff of creativecommons.com see ya
As "sad" and "disgusting" as this is (which it certainly is to some degree), I think it's more productive to realize that it's symptomatic of how the culture industry appropriates, co-opts, and markets all for the sole purpose of acruing capital. Of course, that don't make it "right" (nor does it necessarily make it "wrong"), but it is a reality.
???
How is it "productive" to a) simply accept an existing reality, and b) render it neither "right" nor "wrong"? The idea of productivity is that something is actually produced. All I see produced in your model is complacency.
It's just symptomatic of something much larger at play: the logic of marketing and late capitalism.
This is like saying that there is "something larger at play" when killers kill people. Sure, ok, whatever, there probably is something larger at play- cultural devaluation of human life, broken homes, the logic of late capitalism- but none of this means we can't or shouldn't judge and hold individual or collective actors responsible for their actions.
In other words, don't hate the player (Nike), hate the game (good ol' capitalism).
Ugh. Nonsense. The players are what make a game. If you hate the game, don't play. If you do play, expect to be hated.
As "sad" and "disgusting" as this is (which it certainly is to some degree), I think it's more productive to realize that it's symptomatic of how the culture industry appropriates, co-opts, and markets all for the sole purpose of acruing capital. Of course, that don't make it "right" (nor does it necessarily make it "wrong"), but it is a reality.
How is it "productive" to a) simply accept an existing reality, and b) render it neither "right" nor "wrong"? The idea of productivity is that something is actually produced. All I see produced in your model is complacency.
Who the heck is talking about ???accepting an existing reality??? and being ???complacent???? What I???m calling for is simply a more accurate realization of the forces that drive our world. If anything, the ???Fuck Nike for this!??? shit is more complacent then what I???m calling for because it allows for a totally inaccurate scape-goating???as if Nike and a few other companies are the only ones that are ???inauthentically appropriating subcultures??? for capital, and that if they were just a little bit more socially-conscious or respectful or something, then it???d all be hunky-dory. Heck no! This shit happens all the fucking time???it???s what the fuck marketing is based on. All I???m talking about here is understanding that it???s not about over-simplilfying and scape-goating companies like Nike and Scion for some sort of ???inauthentic appropriation??? for the sole purpose of making money. If we want our actions to have any lasting impact on the world, we need to understand that this is the system that we live in and the system drives the logic. Of course people make up a system which makes up people which makes up the system on and on and on forever, but to individualize the ???problem??? like this is, to me, what I find to be ???wholly unproductive.???
It's just symptomatic of something much larger at play: the logic of marketing and late capitalism.
This is like saying that there is "something larger at play" when killers kill people. Sure, ok, whatever, there probably is something larger at play- cultural devaluation of human life, broken homes, the logic of late capitalism- but none of this means we can't or shouldn't judge and hold individual or collective actors responsible for their actions.
Who is saying you ???shouldn???t or can???t hold individual or collective actors responsible for their actions???? Certainly not me. All I???m trying to shed some light on is that this type of marketing is not a unique phenomenon and is just plain ol??? ???marketing.??? Now, suddenly people care because an album they like is being de-valued by Nike or something and I???m just trying to say ???Woah, hold your horses. This shit happens literally ALL THE FUCKING TIME??? and it???s way too easy to just sit back and say ???Dude, fuck Nike for pimping Dischord like that!???
In other words, don't hate the player (Nike), hate the game (good ol' capitalism).
Ugh. Nonsense. The players are what make a game. If you hate the game, don't play. If you do play, expect to be hated.
Pray tell, how can one ???not play??? this game? There is no space outside of capitalism. You can move to a commune and never buy anything again or something like that, but that???s not exactly affecting much is it?
I???m not calling for any sort of complacency. I just think some of the folks commenting here aren???t being realistic about how these things work, and I find it much more important to understand that there is a systematic logic present here. Nike ads like this aren???t an anomaly.
Pray tell, how can one ???not play??? this game? There is no space outside of capitalism. You can move to a commune and never buy anything again or something like that, but that???s not exactly affecting much is it?
Peace to everyone's opinion in this thread. Good questions raised. And a lot to consider.
I'd just like to add, while moving to a commune is not a reality for everyone who wants to "fuck the system", there are a large number of us (Dischord folks included) who don't buy shit from companies like Nike because of their business practices.
It's easy to live without wearing Nike, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, without eating at McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, without shopping at Wal-Mart, Blockbuster, Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, Staples, without investing in Enron, Haliburton, etc.
You are not what you own
There are degrees of participation. It's not all or nothing. Most folks I know spend their money with conscience. It's not easy to avoid Major Threats entirely, but it's possible. Everyone makes their own decision. Therefore, I see wiggle room "outside of capitalism". I guess you can argue that the Dischordians are capitalist, since they sell records and CDs instead of giving them away, but that argument seems trivial.
To me, it's more important to spend my money with, say, Good Records rather than Sam Goody or the Virgin Megastore. If Jonny decides to use my cash to buy himself a pair of Nike's, then that's his decision. But I don't hate Jonny (or BSides) because he likes to have his shoe game tight.
For years I have bought all my Dischord records from Dischord. I write them a letter when I hear of a record I want, enclosing a check, and Amy sends it to me. Plus, she usually writes a little note and tells me what's new with her. When I started my first record label in the '90s I wrote to Ian asking him questions, and he wrote back with great suggestions, enclosing a copy of that Simple Machines book that details distributors, manufacturers, and tour networks. It's that kind of community that works against the capitalism of enterprises like Nike.
I'd just like to add, while moving to a commune is not a reality for everyone who wants to "fuck the system", there are a large number of us (Dischord folks included) who don't buy shit from companies like Nike because of their business practices.
It's easy to live without wearing Nike, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, without eating at McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, without shopping at Wal-Mart, Blockbuster, Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, Staples, without investing in Enron, Haliburton, etc.
You are not what you own
THIS IS IT RIGHT HERE
It seems like a very simple concept to me but so few embrace it: every dollar you spend is a vote for the kind of world you'd like to see around you.
I'd just like to add, while moving to a commune is not a reality for everyone who wants to "fuck the system", there are a large number of us (Dischord folks included) who don't buy shit from companies like Nike because of their business practices.
It's easy to live without wearing Nike, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, without eating at McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, without shopping at Wal-Mart, Blockbuster, Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, Staples, without investing in Enron, Haliburton, etc.
You are not what you own
THIS IS IT RIGHT HERE
It seems like a very simple concept to me but so few embrace it: every dollar you spend is a vote for the kind of world you'd like to see around you.
playing devil's advocate here...
the question w/ something like this is.....where do you draw the line? Sure you can target the big boys but in the end, a lot of raw source materials used in products are fruits of illegal labour practices.
What makes Nike bad, but Reebok or New Balance ok? A lot of people are latching onto this ideal to fit into their status quo, rather than self belief.
the question w/ something like this is.....where do you draw the line? Sure you can target the big boys but in the end, a lot of raw source materials used in products are fruits of illegal labour practices.
What makes Nike bad, but Reebok or New Balance ok? A lot of people are latching onto this ideal to fit into their status quo, rather than self belief.
You don't draw a line, everyone pulling some explotive bullshit gets called out. Shure plenty of people just pick on one company and ignore the others, but so what. At least they are trying to do something. Way more people are saying "Oh everyone is doing it so who cares?" or "I can't do anything I'm just one preson, it's the way of the world." That's just a big cop out. Just like people dissing Michael Moore. He has always said that he doesn't think big companies should be outlawed or anything, just that if they are going to make billions of the hard work of the people they should take care of people and their comunities. He doesn't want to make it a low, he wants people to do the right thing on their own.
Shit, big companies want to sure the fuck out of all us people that sample, but they don't want to actually give any of that money to the artists, they want to keep it themselves. That's bullshit. They took advantage of these artisits back in the day when musicians just wanted to work and gig, now they are still making money off them.
something else of interest: this isn't the first instance of minor threat biting by a corperation: Emily Strange clothing (a sort of goth-girl targeted Hot Topic type company) put out this t-shirt a while ago. obviously not as direct of a copy, but they still used the minor threat font and everything.
Comments
It is pretty sad, yet not too surprising that companies like Nike would try and use this as a way to market thier line of shoes with "extreme sports".
Those recent coca-cola ads where they have those hipster kids "doing a documentary" talking about "finding an independent underground radio station", with mentions to "the weather underground" documentary (also ian mackaye and the rest of fugazi had thier hands in composing the score for that), and skateboarding.
I've seen recent ads even for stuff as square as like banking commercials with 20-somethings with records in the background---
this to me is different from sampling -- and obviously, if anyone has seen the spoof of minor threat with "miner threat" , which was done by some scene kids , which was all done in fun, and i imagine dischord had no problem with it -- but they have always been against the marketing side of things.
for instance, those minor threat and fugazi t-shirts that were/are floating around were illegit -- but they didn't sue as long as the makers had put a portion of the money to a good charity.
but this is done in a manner that is pretty distasteful. it isn't kids doing this -- it is awful, cheesy corporate marketing.
there is a difference between "kids" sampling and then corporations sampling from the little guy. there is a difference between "kids" downloading music from thier favorite musicians and the record companies not giving performers much royalty, rights to thier music, or health insurance.
also -- let's talk about negativland. those familiar with their sampling (what some refer to as "stealing")-- what do you think they would think of this?
These are the same people who will love someone who is "underground" and then turn around in hate when they blow up. Everybody has to make some money somehow, I just think everybody involved should get a piece of it.
is it disgusting? definitely. is it illegal without permission? i'm not so sure. while it pains me to see nike turn around and appropriate anti-establishment culture without giving proper credit, I think that the design here isn't as damning as it might seem. now nike using minor threat's logo, that's a bit more tricky:
note the DC hardcore insignia and the "major" threat logo. okay, yeah, i'm sickened.
but dudes don't even get me started on STUSSY. if you don't know, stussy is extremely relevant in this level of "culture sampling" discourse. be sure to check this out:
http://www.freshjive.com/
basically, freshjive (that semi-washed-up rag company that was big with ravers in the early 90s) recently did a spoof of their competition by making shirts that ripped off their competitors' logos, like this:
seems stussy didn't like that so much and is suing freshjive over it! this coming from a company that once prided itself on fake gucci patterns with the double s. ridiculous.
Plaese for this to be sarcasm.
Upon first glance, I thought the MAJOR THREAT design was actually ANTI Nike. Like it was calling them out on sweatshops and being a ruthless corporation, and juxtaposed with the old Minor Threat design just made it that much more poignant, like what are couple punk kids gonna do against this big evil company?
The fact that they're using it as an ad.. is just weird to me. Post modernism is truly a mind fuck. Nothing's sacred.
Ps. I'm drunk
actually more of an ad for Minor Threat, which is okay in my book
saying
MY WARPED COPY OF ELASTIC BAND - EXPANSIONS ON LIFE IS UBER DOPE
kind of. not really though. I mean, i can see why kids might be a bit tiffed, and minor thread certainly could get mad....
but I mean, a nike lawsuit would probably bring some free publicity, meaning a chance to air out whatever beef they have with that giant corporation, and they should be happy about that.
new soul strut term?
minor thread: a thread yet to be commented on by either faux_rills or jonny pay$; a thread focused on celibate vegan interests
This is like Bush appointing Henry Kissinger to investigate 9/11- it's not just disgusting, it's *intended* as a "fuck you" to the "haters".
Well since I'm here...
I agree with Mike. Nike should certainly pay up something....
But chances are the guy(s) who designed this or at least whose idea it was is a kid like many of yall, probably LOVES Minor Threat and thought he was making some cool shit. A lot of these marketing guys are just successful/sold-out (call it what you want) versions of what a lot of yall already do here. They might have thought of this as a tribute.
I was sickened by the Stark Reality thread. I don't care if it's BEP, a snitch is a snitch and you don't get no respect for that shit. Bunch of fucking wetmouths.
its an interesting predicament... im sure 95% of the audience for this campaign / tour wouldnt even know who the fuck minor threat are.. OTHER than as a t-shirt - logo design.
it always amazed me back in my punk rock / skater days how many clueless fucks there were who wore the "uniform" of the culture but had no idea who 90% of the bands whose t-shirts they were wearing even were, let alone what the X's stood for. I can only imagine its ten times worse now.
The other thing is im sure mackaye et al will issue some kind of soap box statement via "the underground" but i can't imagine it coming to anything more than that... Maybe its because i burned out on that straight edge self righteous Fugazi BS A LONG TIME AGO but i really don't imagine Dischord and co have the wherewithall to take on Nike over something like this.
its a classic example of the mainstream taking an underground icon and doing whatever they want with it knowing full well that the target doesnt have the time or resources to fight back...
R Crumb's Keep on Truckin slogan for example...
alternate theory
some punk ass kid who wants to fuck with Nike and IS a big dischord / minor threat fan designed this EXPRESSLY so Dischord could sue nike's ass and get rich...
I'm sure anyone who knows Dischord knows they don't need an opportunity to get rich.
It's just symptomatic of something much larger at play: the logic of marketing and late capitalism.
It's pretty much why I think "Roger and Me" is a stupid movie (though totally entertaining). Michael Moore is making these corporate big wigs out to be the enemy, as if the problem(s) with capitalism is(are) that a couple bad apple CEOs are just mean and heartless bad guys or something. Uh, no, dude. This is the logic of capitalism. This is how the world works. Cheaper labor equals more profit. So, if you can go to Mexico to get cheaper labor, holler. Morality doesn't come into play here. Capitalism is by its very nature amoral.
In other words, don't hate the player (Nike), hate the game (good ol' capitalism).
Shit still sucks, though.
If I was Ian Mackeye, I'd be pissed regardless if it was or wasn't "the logic of capitalism."
-e
word homies are PAID fer sure.
but i think the general impression in the indy rock / punk / emo whatever world is that bands like Fugazi are only doin it "for the love" and money has nothing to do with anything...
i have alot of personal baggage with this stuff from my oldschool straight edge youth... i can remember being in bands and we wouldnt even settup merch tables for our 7"s and shirts.. let alone announce that we had them for sale (how people were suppossed to know about them i dont really know) as that was just an unacceptable "sell out" move...
Thereby answering the question:
Do $5 covers add up over time?
UNRELATED: My dude has been best friends with Ian for 20+ years and their bands used to play together all the time. He has an old showbill that listed his band, Minor Threat, and Trouble Funk. When I commented on how dope I thought the poster was, he said:
"That's nothin'. I wish I had the misprinted ones that said MINOR TREAT[/b]."
I think that would've made for a much better Nike ad.
I think the point here is that a socially responsible community based company-which Discord surely is- is being exploited by a huge multi-national Nike that might make nice looking shoes, but doesn't do much for lifting people up. Let's get Micheal Moore* in here with a Q&A in a Nike sweatshop to settle this.
*you can argue that Mooremoney isn't any better that the kettles he berates, but he does promote some good ideas of corporate responibility.
Please be advised that Warren Griffin III bka Warren G has been contacted regarding your use of the lowercase letter g in your new business endeavor. Pursuant to existing trademark claims..blah blah blah...precedent...ask Garth Brooks...all claims to herein....blah..cease and desist...
N-X-E-T...
???
How is it "productive" to a) simply accept an existing reality, and b) render it neither "right" nor "wrong"? The idea of productivity is that something is actually produced. All I see produced in your model is complacency.
This is like saying that there is "something larger at play" when killers kill people. Sure, ok, whatever, there probably is something larger at play- cultural devaluation of human life, broken homes, the logic of late capitalism- but none of this means we can't or shouldn't judge and hold individual or collective actors responsible for their actions.
Ugh. Nonsense. The players are what make a game. If you hate the game, don't play. If you do play, expect to be hated.
Who the heck is talking about ???accepting an existing reality??? and being ???complacent???? What I???m calling for is simply a more accurate realization of the forces that drive our world. If anything, the ???Fuck Nike for this!??? shit is more complacent then what I???m calling for because it allows for a totally inaccurate scape-goating???as if Nike and a few other companies are the only ones that are ???inauthentically appropriating subcultures??? for capital, and that if they were just a little bit more socially-conscious or respectful or something, then it???d all be hunky-dory. Heck no! This shit happens all the fucking time???it???s what the fuck marketing is based on. All I???m talking about here is understanding that it???s not about over-simplilfying and scape-goating companies like Nike and Scion for some sort of ???inauthentic appropriation??? for the sole purpose of making money. If we want our actions to have any lasting impact on the world, we need to understand that this is the system that we live in and the system drives the logic. Of course people make up a system which makes up people which makes up the system on and on and on forever, but to individualize the ???problem??? like this is, to me, what I find to be ???wholly unproductive.???
Who is saying you ???shouldn???t or can???t hold individual or collective actors responsible for their actions???? Certainly not me. All I???m trying to shed some light on is that this type of marketing is not a unique phenomenon and is just plain ol??? ???marketing.??? Now, suddenly people care because an album they like is being de-valued by Nike or something and I???m just trying to say ???Woah, hold your horses. This shit happens literally ALL THE FUCKING TIME??? and it???s way too easy to just sit back and say ???Dude, fuck Nike for pimping Dischord like that!???
Pray tell, how can one ???not play??? this game? There is no space outside of capitalism. You can move to a commune and never buy anything again or something like that, but that???s not exactly affecting much is it?
I???m not calling for any sort of complacency. I just think some of the folks commenting here aren???t being realistic about how these things work, and I find it much more important to understand that there is a systematic logic present here. Nike ads like this aren???t an anomaly.
-e
Peace to everyone's opinion in this thread. Good questions raised. And a lot to consider.
I'd just like to add, while moving to a commune is not a reality for everyone who wants to "fuck the system", there are a large number of us (Dischord folks included) who don't buy shit from companies like Nike because of their business practices.
It's easy to live without wearing Nike, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, without eating at McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, without shopping at Wal-Mart, Blockbuster, Starbucks, Barnes & Noble, Staples, without investing in Enron, Haliburton, etc.
You are not what you own
There are degrees of participation. It's not all or nothing. Most folks I know spend their money with conscience. It's not easy to avoid Major Threats entirely, but it's possible. Everyone makes their own decision. Therefore, I see wiggle room "outside of capitalism". I guess you can argue that the Dischordians are capitalist, since they sell records and CDs instead of giving them away, but that argument seems trivial.
To me, it's more important to spend my money with, say, Good Records rather than Sam Goody or the Virgin Megastore. If Jonny decides to use my cash to buy himself a pair of Nike's, then that's his decision. But I don't hate Jonny (or BSides) because he likes to have his shoe game tight.
For years I have bought all my Dischord records from Dischord. I write them a letter when I hear of a record I want, enclosing a check, and Amy sends it to me. Plus, she usually writes a little note and tells me what's new with her. When I started my first record label in the '90s I wrote to Ian asking him questions, and he wrote back with great suggestions, enclosing a copy of that Simple Machines book that details distributors, manufacturers, and tour networks. It's that kind of community that works against the capitalism of enterprises like Nike.
We owe you nothing/ You have no control
THIS IS IT RIGHT HERE
It seems like a very simple concept to me but so few embrace it: every dollar you spend is a vote for the kind of world you'd like to see around you.
playing devil's advocate here...
the question w/ something like this is.....where do you draw the line? Sure you can target the big boys but in the end, a lot of raw source materials used in products are fruits of illegal labour practices.
What makes Nike bad, but Reebok or New Balance ok? A lot of people are latching onto this ideal to fit into their status quo, rather than self belief.
You don't draw a line, everyone pulling some explotive bullshit gets called out. Shure plenty of people just pick on one company and ignore the others, but so what. At least they are trying to do something. Way more people are saying "Oh everyone is doing it so who cares?" or "I can't do anything I'm just one preson, it's the way of the world." That's just a big cop out. Just like people dissing Michael Moore. He has always said that he doesn't think big companies should be outlawed or anything, just that if they are going to make billions of the hard work of the people they should take care of people and their comunities. He doesn't want to make it a low, he wants people to do the right thing on their own.
Shit, big companies want to sure the fuck out of all us people that sample, but they don't want to actually give any of that money to the artists, they want to keep it themselves. That's bullshit. They took advantage of these artisits back in the day when musicians just wanted to work and gig, now they are still making money off them.
Emily Strange clothing (a sort of goth-girl targeted Hot Topic type company) put out this t-shirt a while ago. obviously not as direct of a copy, but they still used the minor threat font and everything.
who the hell do i have to sue?