It is easier to dwell on her age because it is a more concrete issue to address and easier to call right/wrong on than the acceptability of using women from the audience as part of a slack, to say the least, stage show.
It is more likely that a 32 yr old or even a much more mature 15 yr old would know that things could get out of control in that situation and would be able to get themselves out of it if it didn't feel right to them. Who knows about this particular 15 yr old? We know nothing about her, but plenty are willing to speculate.
She lied to get in and she's wild and she wasn't seen struggling...and so...?
Some of the reaction is also based on the fact that she is a preacher's daughter.
yall remember this one group called 2 live crew, right?
it didnt look like ol girl was tryin to get away. girls that try to get away dont hold onto the dude's neck they are tryin to get away from. looks like she was down for the ride
the acceptability of using women from the audience
Aside from her age, I just dont buy that. Women who do this put themselves in that situation, and of course Akon's behavior went above and beyond anything that could even be considered 'suggestive,' but i think your a little quick to absolve these women of any responsibility for acting in a way that degrades them and their sex. Again, this is why I think the issue is her age. Degrading attitudes and behavior towards women in hip-hop/R&B is another issue entirely. In that respect, this is really just an extreme example, one that wouldve been under the radar if she was of age.
Dor, so now its about the contest? No one here has defended his actions, they are disgusting, just like R. Kelly pissing on someone, but the reason these go beyond typical misogynistic treatment of groupies is these girls age. There are a lot of women who choose to degrade themselves, I'm just concerned about those too young to understand the choice.
the acceptability of using women from the audience
Aside from her age, I just dont buy that. Women who do this put themselves in that situation, and of course Akon's behavior went above and beyond anything that could even be considered 'suggestive,' but i think your a little quick to absolve these women of any responsibility for acting in a way that degrades them and their sex. Again, this is why I think the issue is her age. Degrading attitudes and behavior towards women in hip-hop/R&B is another issue entirely. In that respect, this is really just an extreme example, one that wouldve been under the radar if she was of age.
I am not trying to absolve anyone of anything. Rap show after rap show, the night ends with a call for the ladies to come on the stage and without fail, they do. It's embarrassing and cringe-worthy and reinforces the T&A role for women in rap. Some of the women, both under- and of age, are down for whatever comes their way and some look lost and some are clearly not expecting to find one of the roadies latched to her ass. But yea, none of them have to go up there and it will be lesson for some.
My point was more that it is easier to condemn him because of her age than to discuss the culture of using women who are not part of the act, in that manner.
She lied to get in and she's wild and she wasn't seen struggling...and so...?
This makes it seem like you think[/b] I'm blaming a rape victim, like she was asking for it.
The fact that she lied or that she's wild or that she didn't struggle does not change how out of line Akon and his crew were. That was my point. You don't want someone to twist your words, please don't twist what you think mine mean.
It is easier to dwell on her age because it is a more concrete issue to address and easier to call right/wrong on than the acceptability of using women from the audience as part of a slack, to say the least, stage show.
using women from the audience as part of a slack, to say the least, stage show.
I'm not with that corny shit. That's one of the many reasons I'm weary of going to rap concerts these days. Everyfuckingbody from De La Soul to Fiddy Cent is pulling that "come up and shake your baby phat" bullshit. It might work at, say, a Lady Saw show where the atmosphere is mad raunchy and there's some ladies who are itching to wine their bodies with style, but in most cases I've experienced, that shit comes of reeeeeal cheesy.
I remember one time in '95, I was at an Ice-T show with a girl I had just met the same day. It was a good show (I like Ice-T), up until he pulls the girlscomeupandshakeit move. Of course there's a handful of girls jumping on stage. My date looks at me, eyes rolling like "Oh, man look at those skanks", when suddenly the crowd surrounding us grabs her and crowdsurfs her involuntarily up on the stage. She was a pretty hot-looking girl and I guess they figured she would be the type to love that sort of stage appearance. Which she wasn't. At all. She just stood up on the stage looking so out of place and not knowing what to do with herself, while Ice and thousands of drunk rap dudes were going whoopwhoop. Embarrasing.
Comments
It is more likely that a 32 yr old or even a much more mature 15 yr old would know that things could get out of control in that situation and would be able to get themselves out of it if it didn't feel right to them. Who knows about this particular 15 yr old? We know nothing about her, but plenty are willing to speculate.
She lied to get in and she's wild and she wasn't seen struggling...and so...?
Some of the reaction is also based on the fact that she is a preacher's daughter.
it didnt look like ol girl was tryin to get away. girls that try to get away dont hold onto the dude's neck they are tryin to get away from. looks like she was down for the ride
Aside from her age, I just dont buy that. Women who do this put themselves in that situation, and of course Akon's behavior went above and beyond anything that could even be considered 'suggestive,' but i think your a little quick to absolve these women of any responsibility for acting in a way that degrades them and their sex. Again, this is why I think the issue is her age. Degrading attitudes and behavior towards women in hip-hop/R&B is another issue entirely. In that respect, this is really just an extreme example, one that wouldve been under the radar if she was of age.
Dor, so now its about the contest? No one here has defended his actions, they are disgusting, just like R. Kelly pissing on someone, but the reason these go beyond typical misogynistic treatment of groupies is these girls age. There are a lot of women who choose to degrade themselves, I'm just concerned about those too young to understand the choice.
No, I wasn't including the contest into it. I was pointing out that to win the contest, she would have had to be of age.
I am not trying to absolve anyone of anything. Rap show after rap show, the night ends with a call for the ladies to come on the stage and without fail, they do. It's embarrassing and cringe-worthy and reinforces the T&A role for women in rap. Some of the women, both under- and of age, are down for whatever comes their way and some look lost and some are clearly not expecting to find one of the roadies latched to her ass. But yea, none of them have to go up there and it will be lesson for some.
My point was more that it is easier to condemn him because of her age than to discuss the culture of using women who are not part of the act, in that manner.
The fact that she lied or that she's wild or that she didn't struggle does not change how out of line Akon and his crew were. That was my point. You don't want someone to twist your words, please don't twist what you think mine mean.
I'm not with that corny shit. That's one of the many reasons I'm weary of going to rap concerts these days. Everyfuckingbody from De La Soul to Fiddy Cent is pulling that "come up and shake your baby phat" bullshit. It might work at, say, a Lady Saw show where the atmosphere is mad raunchy and there's some ladies who are itching to wine their bodies with style, but in most cases I've experienced, that shit comes of reeeeeal cheesy.
I remember one time in '95, I was at an Ice-T show with a girl I had just met the same day. It was a good show (I like Ice-T), up until he pulls the girlscomeupandshakeit move. Of course there's a handful of girls jumping on stage. My date looks at me, eyes rolling like "Oh, man look at those skanks", when suddenly the crowd surrounding us grabs her and crowdsurfs her involuntarily up on the stage. She was a pretty hot-looking girl and I guess they figured she would be the type to love that sort of stage appearance. Which she wasn't. At all. She just stood up on the stage looking so out of place and not knowing what to do with herself, while Ice and thousands of drunk rap dudes were going whoopwhoop. Embarrasing.