NBA 2007/Second Half/Do The Math

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  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    I don't really understand the point of that article but all I gots to say is, Steve Nash is good but he'll have to accomplish much more before he's in the Magic/Isiah/Stockton camp.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Interested to hear some takes on this article below. I recall some KJ hatt on here not too long ago. This is clipped from www.dallasbasketball.com.....






    BLOGFISH


    Steve Nash - A History

    ABC demonstrated remarkable restraint in landing just shy of annointing Steve Nash as the great point guard in NBA history.

    Just shy.

    Anchor Mike Breen closed the broadcast of Sunday afternoon's 126-104 Suns win over Dallas by terming Nash a "legend,'' and adding that it is growing increasingly more difficult to argue the point.

    Maybe I've just experienced bitter-loss face, but may I try to argue the point?

    DB.com reader Andrew, and the nationally-TV'ed meeting between the Mavs and the Big Balls of Hot Gas (BBHG), trigger this issue. Andrew suggests that the idea that Steve Nash is on some all-by-himself historic plateau as a point guard isn't even close to being true, and that is actually the beneficiary of playing in an era devoid of other great PGs.

    On the latter point, he may be right; in terms of proven greatness at PG right now, it's Nash and Kidd and maybe Billups? And that's about it. Still, that takes nothing away from Stevie's "legendary'' status. Nor does his fine 23-point, 11-assist effort in this game. Nor does the classy manner with which he carries himself. Check out this postgame quote:

    "Sometimes we play to the level of our competition. Tonight I give us high marks for energy and consistency. When we play well, no one is going to defend us well.''

    Confident, but classy. All from a day when all he really needed to be better than was opposite number Jason Terry, and maybe MVP rival Dirk Nowitzki. Again, none of it takes away from the "legend'' argument.

    But this might:

    On the former point, as Andrew notes, the late 80's and early '90's were overflowing with people who were Nash-like in terms of talent, production and stature (Nash is an 18-point/11-assist/3-rebound guy). And the large majority of them never got an MVP sniff. For instance:

    Let's try Kevin Johnson. He's not legendary, he was never an MVP candidate. But. ... check out his resume and his numbers ... KJ in his prime was a 6-1, 190-pounder who annually put up 20-point/11-assist/3-rebound seasons, was a three-time All-Star, was All-NBA second-team three times. ... Holy cow! KJ seems a mirror image of this guy we now tout as a "Greatest Player Ever'' but KJ's no legend.

    Let's try. ... hmmm. ... Mark Price. I don't remember Mark Price being considered a legend, do you? Yet the 6-0, 170-pound Price during his prime was a 17-point/9-assist/3-rebound guy.

    Not quite Nash, but. ... Holy cow again! Nash is just a smidge better than Mark Friggin' Price?

    So forget the comparison to John Stockton (in his prime a 17-point/14-assist/3-rebound guy). Maybe Gary Payton needs to be brought up here. Maybe Timmy Hardaway, too. Definitely Isiah Thomas. And somebody oughta remember that Magic Johnson actually played the position pretty well (and won titles): Magic was a 19.5-point/11.2-assist/7.2 rebound guy. And by the way, I didn't play the "in-his-prime'' game with Magic; those numbers come through ups and downs and youthful moments and aged moments. Those numbers are his overall CAREER stats.

    That's just sick -- and waaay out of Steve Nash's league.

    Forgetting the rules changes that make you wonder if a Kevin Johnson today would be a 26-ppg guy. And all of this makes me wonder if we can really select Steve Nash as the back-to-back-to-back MVP when his "specialness'' as a player -- minus the media gushing and the SportsCenter love -- puts him right up there historically with Kevin Johnson and Mark Price.

    Seems kind of like hate to me. Not saying Nash is the "greatest ever" or any such foolishness, but knocking him on the basis of his stat line viewed in a vacuum is a pretty thin analysis. Or what about this stat: 62, 54, 55+? I don't really care... just saying it seems real gratuitous.

  • There's more than a smidge of hate there...it is from a Mavs-themed site and we have our axes to grind, however irrational you may find that.

    The point I was hoping peeps would focus on is the KJ/Mark Price comparisons.

    The article is somewhat validated by what-I-feel-is-the overvaluation of Nash in the historical NBA picture. SEVERAL paid announcers have referred to him as a "legend" and "one of the greas" and I agree w/ Fish I don't know if that's true. Take his stats of the last 3 years, which are KJ/Price-like and then realize he's ONLY done that in a fantabulous system and on the other side of 30.

    The other valid point is the current dearth of good PGs. Ones that make their whole teams better.

    Nash is a joy to watch play and by far the best PG right now. I/we loved him as a Mav and it's too bad he is in such direct competition w/ the Mavs now cos it fuels the hate.

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    too bad he is in such direct competition w/ the Mavs now cos it fuels the hate.


    I often wonder what would have happened if Nash stayed on the Mavs with Dirk.


  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    too bad he is in such direct competition w/ the Mavs now cos it fuels the hate.


    I often wonder what would have happened if Nash stayed on the Mavs with Dirk.


    He wouldn't have won 2 MVP's and the Mavs would not be as good as they are today.

    Nash is custom made for the Suns offense/game while Avery has taken the Mavs in a more Defensive direction.

    At least that's what I keep trying to convince myself ......

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    who cares though

    two words will carry phoenix to the finals

    AMARE

    STOUDEMIRE

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    but all I gots to say is, Steve Nash is good but he'll have to accomplish much more before he's in the Magic/Isiah/Stockton camp.

    Droppin Science

  • G_BalliandoG_Balliando 3,916 Posts
    Dudes.



    21 pts.
    20 boards (6 offensive)
    6 blocks

    I luv it.

  • rkwparkrkwpark 915 Posts
    Dudes.



    21 pts.
    20 boards (6 offensive)
    6 blocks

    I luv it.

    cotton camby has been surprisingly durable the last few years in denver, as much as i want my dubs to make the playoffs, i want to see melo and ai in the playoffs.

  • shit's gettin tight between the nugs and clips.

    the warriors' margin for error down the stretch is gettin close to nil.

    dubs gonna make it, fellas?

  • rkwparkrkwpark 915 Posts


    dubs gonna make it, fellas?

    hells effin yes!!!

    although having meaningful games in april is a welcome change.

  • G_BalliandoG_Balliando 3,916 Posts
    shit's gettin tight between the nugs and clips.

    the warriors' margin for error down the stretch is gettin close to nil.

    dubs gonna make it, fellas?

    Please take out the boring ass clippers. as much as I like brand, and even cassell, I do not want to see them in the playoffs again. call it "you mad doggie" from last year, call it hate, call it what you want, but the clips bore the effin shit out of me this year. We're only a game ahead of them right now, or a game and a half or some shit, so they might even sneak into the 7th spot if we fuck around... That lakers win was a healthy one. We needed that. And we're gonna need to beat all the .500 teams coming up (kings, wolves, grizzies, etc) cuz we got lakers again, mavs, utah, and san antone still theis season. ugh. I want to see those warriors make it though! Go Warriors!

  • bthavbthav 1,538 Posts
    chicago is officially playing hot potato.


    wtf?


    i guess detroit is resting their dudes. i still think flip should focus on a proper line rotation, than on burger king magic tricks. this was our biggest nagl of the 06 playoffs.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    It's funny that most of the teams yall are rooting for, are borderline playoff teams.
    Golden State, New York, Denver, Indiana. Lakers are pretty borderline as well.

  • I'd just like to take the opportunity to say: the spurs fathered the mavs whole style.

    goodbye!

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    I'd just like to take the opportunity to say: the spurs fathered the mavs whole style.

    goodbye!


    Avery will always be a Spur in my mind.....

    The Spur style of play has proven to be a winner...

    And there is no question he's trying to duplicate that here in Dallas

  • rkwparkrkwpark 915 Posts
    avery was a warrior too!

  • rkwparkrkwpark 915 Posts
    btw warriors 110 rockets 99!!!

    so yao takes 4 shots and mcgrady gets hurt but a W is a W!!!


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    I'd just like to take the opportunity to say: the spurs fathered the mavs whole style.

    goodbye!


    Avery will always be a Spur in my mind.....

    The Spur style of play has proven to be a winner...

    And there is no question he's trying to duplicate that here in Dallas

    Spurs system blended w/ The Don Nelson system. It's still there.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Who Is this Walter Hermannn cat in Charlotte? Anybody got info?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Who Is this Walter Hermannn cat in Charlotte? Anybody got info?

    I remember him from the 04 Olympics--looks like Fabio. Apparently he's a big fan favorite in Argentina. Has a tragic story--lost his wife and kid in a car accident.

  • SUNS V. SPURS tonight. Who you got?

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    SUNS V. SPURS tonight. Who you got?

    Suns

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Who Is this Walter Hermannn cat in Charlotte? Anybody got info?

    I remember him from the 04 Olympics--looks like Fabio. Apparently he's a big fan favorite in Argentina. Has a tragic story--lost his wife and kid in a car accident.


  • rkwparkrkwpark 915 Posts
    Who Is this Walter Hermannn cat in Charlotte? Anybody got info?

    I remember him from the 04 Olympics--looks like Fabio. Apparently he's a big fan favorite in Argentina. Has a tragic story--lost his wife and kid in a car accident.


    is he using a wnba ball? and not to put you on blast rockadelic but why you got this picture in your photobucket account?!?!?!?!

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Who Is this Walter Hermannn cat in Charlotte? Anybody got info?

    I remember him from the 04 Olympics--looks like Fabio. Apparently he's a big fan favorite in Argentina. Has a tragic story--lost his wife and kid in a car accident.


    is he using a wnba ball? and not to put you on blast rockadelic but why you got this picture in your photobucket account?!?!?!?!

    Cause I'm an idiot and that's the only way I know how to post a pic....save it from Google and upload it to photobucket???

    Plus he is kinda attractive....you know, in a Fabio-like way.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    SUNS V. SPURS tonight. Who you got?

    Spurs.

    I just noticed Houston is 47-28. wow.

  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    but all I gots to say is, Steve Nash is good but he'll have to accomplish much more before he's in the Magic/Isiah/Stockton camp.

    Droppin Science

    he is better than stockton and has arguably accomplished more by winning 2 mvps. try naming some pgs who have won mvp in the last 30 years? now how about twice?!?

    isiah was a unique player and nash could never take over a game offensively like him, but comparing the two is strange since isiah was a total scoring pg.

    magic has the height of a power forward, so again, comparing him to nash is also a little unfair.

    price and kj are good comparisons but they played at a time when nba teams scored more points per game. i dont think price would average 9 assists per game in todays' game when teams score 90 points a game.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    but all I gots to say is, Steve Nash is good but he'll have to accomplish much more before he's in the Magic/Isiah/Stockton camp.

    Droppin Science

    he is better than stockton and has arguably accomplished more by winning 2 mvps. try naming some pgs who have won mvp in the last 30 years? now how about twice?!?

    isiah was a unique player and nash could never take over a game offensively like him, but comparing the two is strange since isiah was a total scoring pg.

    magic has the height of a power forward, so again, comparing him to nash is also a little unfair.

    price and kj are good comparisons but they played at a time when nba teams scored more points per game. i dont think price would average 9 assists per game in todays' game when teams score 90 points a game.

    Taking all other points into consideration, Nash > Stockton?!

    Not a good look. John Stockton was/is the man.

  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    as a kobe fan, you should recognize that utah was the site of bryant's most embarrasing moments as a pro(remember those air balls??)...and for that reason alone you should hate stockton.
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