Man there wasnt ANY FUCKING GRIT in motown records until AFTER STAX put out some ass kickers.
early Motown is pretty damn gritty at times
That label was actually fairly crude until 1964. The Contours'"Do You Love Me" and Barrett Strong's "Money" sound nothing like Motown as we know it.
(OK, Barrett's "Money" was actually on the Anna label, but since Motown has reissued it a thousand times over on various oldies comps, I might as well include it...)
Anyway: that whole 'motown is for white folks' arguement is retarded, only white record nerds with concerns about 'authentic black music' would make it - in fact, I would say that Motown represented the higher societal aspirations of African-Americans....
Yes. Motown made no secret of their crossover aspirations, but I don't think the idea was to cultivate white listeners at the exclusion of black listeners, and I don't think that was what happened either. The Temptations were strictly for white folks? Please...
does anybody read anymore?...please show me where I said this...all I stated was that more white folks BOUGHT motown records...
You didn't say "more"; you said "mostly":
Whats really funny is that Motown was black label that put out records that mostly white folks bought
That label was actually fairly crude until 1964. The Contours'"Do You Love Me" and Barrett Strong's "Money" sound nothing like Motown as we know it.
the production on the early striped label Tamlas & Motowns is absolutely barbaric - i.e on some caveman shit.
Most of my favorite Gordy related stuff is from that era: Mary Wells 'Bye Bye Baby'? sick, the Swinging Tigers 'Snake Walk'? sick, Singing Sammy Ward 'That Child is Really Wild'? sick, the Contours 'Whole Lotta Woman'? sick - you get the point...
Last summer I had the opportunity to go in the abandoned Motown office building on Woodward( where they moved from the classic 'Hitsville' house on W. Grand Blvd), it was literally as if the place was abandoned & shuttered in 1971 when Berry Gordy thought, "fuck this Detroit shit, I'm going to Hollywood". Years of water damage & invasions by crackheads looking for salvage metal pipes had left it a sad haunted wreck with drifts of moldering Motown papers, files & archives. Seeing a site so important to American cultural heritage in such disrepair was disconcerting - I figure Memphian soul fans get the same reaction when Techno djs are booked for Stax tributes.
Why does an aesthetic preference have to also be qualitative?
I like Stax far more than Motown but that's because I like the sound of Stax better. Doesn't mean I'm shitting on Motown at all. Motown made some incredible music, much of which I enjoy but at the end of the day, I'd rather roll with Stax's sound.
For one thing, I prefer Stax's ballads over Motown's. I think the latter were better produced and more sophisticated engineering-wise but again - that gritty, bluesy Stax sound is my shit.
Marvin vs. Otis. Damn, that's too close to call. I'd just ditch both and put on some Al Green (Hi Records, what!)
P.S. I'd take the Beatles over the Stones in a heartbeat. I'd also take...
Black Jazz over Strata-East Eddie Bo over Allen Toussaint Bernard Purdie over Idris Muhammmed Tommy Boy over Jive 12"s over 45s Groove Merchant over TSL Shanghai over Taipei Sushi over pizza Honda over Toyota (even though I own a Prius) The Wire over Sopranos blah blah blah
Why does an aesthetic preference have to also be qualitative?
it doesnt... I was grumpy and got even grumpier reading that Ashford piece and thought I would throw something up that could be debated. Also just flexing some regional pride...I helped Wendy Rene's brother(who wrote "After Laughter") find a Barbara Lynn 45 in the shop the other day, I talk to Skip Pitts regularly, you see Willie hall walking down the street all the time...these people Ashford called copycats live and work where I live and work I didnt like the idea of someone discrediting them, thats all...I was hoping my not serious/but kinda serious tone of the subject set the stage...
Why does an aesthetic preference have to also be qualitative?
it doesnt... I was grumpy and got even grumpier reading that Ashford piece and thought I would throw something up that could be debated. Also just flexing some regional pride...I helped Wendy Rene's brother(who wrote "After Laughter") find a Barbara Lynn 45 in the shop the other day, I talk to Skip Pitts regularly, you see Willie hall walking down the street all the time...these people Ashford called copycats live and work where I live and work I didnt like the idea of someone discrediting them
dont get me wrong, i think ashford, james jamerson, and the rest of the motown hitmaking crew were fine musicians, but these were obviously jazz guys who thought playing on pop records was beneath them. whereas in memphis, booker t. jones majored in music at college and it never seemed like he was lowering his standards or any shit like that...i always got the impression that the stax guys genuinely loved what they were putting down.
Marvin vs. Otis. Damn, that's too close to call. I'd just ditch both and put on some Al Green (Hi Records, what!)
But he got his start in Grand Rapids, Michigan, baby (Hot Line Music Journal, what!).
Yeah, but he came into his best sound with the Hi Rhythm Section (Willie Mitchell, what!)
yeah, well, me and Al were hanging out last night and he was telling me about how he wished he had stayed in G.R. cause it was so much better than....ah nevermind (Willie Mitchell, what!)
on a side not, ever get to peep those song covers I sent you?
Comments
That label was actually fairly crude until 1964. The Contours'"Do You Love Me" and Barrett Strong's "Money" sound nothing like Motown as we know it.
(OK, Barrett's "Money" was actually on the Anna label, but since Motown has reissued it a thousand times over on various oldies comps, I might as well include it...)
.
You didn't say "more"; you said "mostly":
Big difference.
the production on the early striped label Tamlas & Motowns is absolutely barbaric - i.e on some caveman shit.
Most of my favorite Gordy related stuff is from that era: Mary Wells 'Bye Bye Baby'? sick, the Swinging Tigers 'Snake Walk'? sick, Singing Sammy Ward 'That Child is Really Wild'? sick, the Contours 'Whole Lotta Woman'? sick - you get the point...
Last summer I had the opportunity to go in the abandoned Motown office building on Woodward( where they moved from the classic 'Hitsville' house on W. Grand Blvd), it was literally as if the place was abandoned & shuttered in 1971 when Berry Gordy thought, "fuck this Detroit shit, I'm going to Hollywood". Years of water damage & invasions by crackheads looking for salvage metal pipes had left it a sad haunted wreck with drifts of moldering Motown papers, files & archives. Seeing a site so important to American cultural heritage in such disrepair was disconcerting - I figure Memphian soul fans get the same reaction when Techno djs are booked for Stax tributes.
--
PS: I'd totally take the Stones over the Beatles.
I like Stax far more than Motown but that's because I like the sound of Stax better. Doesn't mean I'm shitting on Motown at all. Motown made some incredible music, much of which I enjoy but at the end of the day, I'd rather roll with Stax's sound.
For one thing, I prefer Stax's ballads over Motown's. I think the latter were better produced and more sophisticated engineering-wise but again - that gritty, bluesy Stax sound is my shit.
Marvin vs. Otis. Damn, that's too close to call. I'd just ditch both and put on some Al Green (Hi Records, what!)
P.S. I'd take the Beatles over the Stones in a heartbeat.
I'd also take...
Black Jazz over Strata-East
Eddie Bo over Allen Toussaint
Bernard Purdie over Idris Muhammmed
Tommy Boy over Jive
12"s over 45s
Groove Merchant over TSL
Shanghai over Taipei
Sushi over pizza
Honda over Toyota (even though I own a Prius)
The Wire over Sopranos
blah blah blah
it doesnt... I was grumpy and got even grumpier reading that Ashford piece and thought I would throw something up that could be debated. Also just flexing some regional pride...I helped Wendy Rene's brother(who wrote "After Laughter") find a Barbara Lynn 45 in the shop the other day, I talk to Skip Pitts regularly, you see Willie hall walking down the street all the time...these people Ashford called copycats live and work where I live and work I didnt like the idea of someone discrediting them, thats all...I was hoping my not serious/but kinda serious tone of the subject set the stage...
dont get me wrong, i think ashford, james jamerson, and the rest of the motown hitmaking crew were fine musicians, but these were obviously jazz guys who thought playing on pop records was beneath them. whereas in memphis, booker t. jones majored in music at college and it never seemed like he was lowering his standards or any shit like that...i always got the impression that the stax guys genuinely loved what they were putting down.
But he got his start in Grand Rapids, Michigan, baby (Hot Line Music Journal, what!).
yeah, well, me and Al were hanging out last night and he was telling me about how he wished he had stayed in G.R. cause it was so much better than....ah nevermind (Willie Mitchell, what!)
on a side not, ever get to peep those song covers I sent you?