most state statutory rape laws are a joke. meghan's law is even more ludicrous. unfortunately, the two of these often mesh (at sentencing) so that an 18 year old kid who has sex with a willing 15 year old will spend the rest of his life being listed as a "sexual predator." it's revolting.
I admire him for not taking the plea. But it goes to show that even if you know your innocent, the system always has a way of getting you. Especially if someone REALLY wants to get you.
Murs wrote a song about this case. It's on that Free Design remix LP that came out a year or two ago. Dangermouse produced it. I'll try to post the song when I get home tonight.
Murs wrote a song about this case. It's on that Free Design remix LP that came out a year or two ago. Dangermouse produced it. I'll try to post the song when I get home tonight.
Herm
On second thought, I believe this song is not about this particular case but rather a very similar situation:
There may be a "happy ending" after all ... but seriously, what the fuck is wrong with that DA? After all this he plans to appeal and try to keep dude in jail? Some of these District Attorneys are like rabid dogs when they get a chance to put someone away, and God forbid anybody question their intentions ...
The judge in his ruling Monday threw out Genarlow Wilson's 10-year sentence and amended it to misdemeanor aggravated child molestation[/b] with a 12-month term, plus credit for time served.
I'm glad he's out of the clink, but the sentence is still bullshit. He never should have been arrested in the first place. He'll be lucky to find a job with that charge on his record.
most state statutory rape laws are a joke. meghan's law is even more ludicrous. unfortunately, the two of these often mesh (at sentencing) so that an 18 year old kid who has sex with a willing 15 year old will spend the rest of his life being listed as a "sexual predator." it's revolting.
Most of these statutes make allowances for the relative ages of the individuals involved. What is really a joke is the Model Penal Law suggesting that the age of the victim be set at 12[/b] to qualify as statutory rape. When I read that the first time, it made me want to vomit.
But I agree this case is pretty sad, when you consider the promise this kid showed and the fact that his life is still ruined. But if he was 21 and the girl was 15 than I think he belongs in jail.
I hated criminal law, because all the cases you read are generally sad, tragic wastes regardless of what side you are on.
if he was 21 and the girl was 15 than I think he belongs in jail.
He was 17.
I know. I was commenting on the general aspect of statutory rape laws, I think that they usually require that the victim be under a certain age and that the defendant be five years older than the victim.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
and if things get messy, just suck that little fetus brain out and harvest its stem cells.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
Please write back when you have a 16 year old daughter.
what i'd really be worried about, if I were him, is that he has Jimmy Carter working for him, and we all know Jimmy's record on getting people released. I hope he doesnt try to use helicopters.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
Please write back when you have a 16 year old daughter.
Implying that having a 16-year-old daughter makes you an ignorant right-wing nutjob?
There's nothing to be gained by having statutory rape laws on the books. If you don't want your teenage daughter having sex, make sure she's educated and brought up with proper morals. Ultimately she's the one with the decision making power, not you.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
Please write back when you have a 16 year old daughter.
Implying that having a 16-year-old daughter makes you an ignorant right-wing nutjob?
There's nothing to be gained by having statutory rape laws on the books. If you don't want your teenage daughter having sex, make sure she's educated and brought up with proper morals. Ultimately she's the one with the decision making power, not you.
Dear Idiot,
The whole point is that a 16 year old is unable to make such a decision.
Allen Dershowitz was on CNN this morning and he suggested that the age of consent should be lowered in almost every state. He argued that girls are sexually active at an earlier age than is reflected by the law.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
Please write back when you have a 16 year old daughter.
Implying that having a 16-year-old daughter makes you an ignorant right-wing nutjob?
There's nothing to be gained by having statutory rape laws on the books. If you don't want your teenage daughter having sex, make sure she's educated and brought up with proper morals. Ultimately she's the one with the decision making power, not you.
Dear Idiot,
The whole point is that a 16 year old is unable to make such a decision.
Very truly yours,
Saba.
But a 17-year-old boy is? Most boys at 17 have less maturity than a 14-year-old girl.
If your retarded 16-year-old can't make decisions for herself then take away her license and strap a helmet on her misshapen head. GTFOOHWTBS.
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
1. Again, most of the laws require that the defendant be a certain number of years older than the victim to avoid the High School Senior who has sex with his Freshman girlfriend. In the US all but one state requires that a couple be 18 to marry without parental consent.
2. I think there is a probably a strong public policy argument for not putting girls who have been the victim of statutory rape into jail, or taking away their children.
3. The point that you seem to be missing, is that under the legal age of consent there is no "willfully."
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
How many of those 16 year old mothers do you think would do it differently if given the chance.
My youngest daughter is 18 and quite a few of her friends had kids at 15 & 16.
I'm here to tell you very few of them were "mature" enough to take on the responsibility of being a mother and their children and our society will suffer as a result.
I don't want to think about my daughter growing up to be a 16 year old giving blowjobs to anybody but that said, if her 17 year old boyfriend is sexually active with her, I don't see putting him in jail for 10 years as a desirable outcome either.
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
1. Again, most of the laws require that the defendant be a certain number of years older than the victim to avoid the High School Senior who has sex with his Freshman girlfriend. In the US all but one state requires that a couple be 18 to marry without parental consent.
2. I think there is a probably a strong public policy argument for not putting girls who have been the victim of statutory rape into jail, or taking away their children.
3. The point that you seem to be missing, is that under the legal age of consent there is no "willfully."
no dude, the point you are missing "is that under the legal age of consent there is no willfully". my point is that setting an arbitrary age of consent is...arbitrary. every statutory rape prosecution should be on a case-by-case basis. what was the accused's subjective pov about the girl's age and her ability to consent? what is the objective view of the community regarding the same circumstances?
setting an exact age of consent is ludicrous and sounds like an attempt to appease religious fanatics. you havent answered the question that i posed in my last post. its completely relevant to this discussion. if 16 year olds aren't mature enough to consent, what else shouldn't they (legally) have the right to do? we know they can drive, drop out of school, and years ago, enter the army, right? so lets talk about the things they shouldnt be able to do. other than give consent to having sex.
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
How many of those 16 year old mothers do you think would do it differently if given the chance.
My youngest daughter is 18 and quite a few of her friends had kids at 15 & 16.
I'm here to tell you very few of them were "mature" enough to take on the responsibility of being a mother and their children and our society will suffer as a result.
Last night I registered a mom with a newborn. When I asked her birthdate, she replied " XX/XX/1993[/b]". 13. Coming into an ER by herself with a month old baby at 12:45 Monday AM. This girl no longer looked like a child (that often comes along with bearing children), but I can assure you all that she had no clue as to how to bring that child up. The doctor told me mom was completely uninterested in anything she said, that she was paying no attention to the child either. It was just sad. Sadder still was the fact that no one responsible for HER was interested enough to accompany her to the ER. That is something I rarely see. Usually babies with babies have at least their own mothers to rely on, and I have even seen some young men step up to the plate and do what's right, but I would put that at about a 15% if I was being generous.
I am not trying to get in the middle of this argument, but I have to say, there needs to be some regulation on the books that makes people think twice about taking advantage of a girl's inexperience and youth. Throwing out the age of consent concept entirely is ridiculous.
My point is that setting an arbitrary age of consent is...arbitrary. Every statutory rape prosecution should be on a case-by-case basis.
Since you are the one who wants to change the law, maybe you should tell us why you think it should be on a case by case basis. The reason its not, as you well know, is that it is a crime of strict liability.
What was the accused's subjective pov about the girl's age and her ability to consent?
The reason why the law is not concerned with the subjective intent of the defendant is because, the law frowns on out-of-wedlock sex for the obvious social costs, and therefore, if you are going to take the risk than you damnb better be sure.
what is the objective view of the community regarding the same circumstances?
I would argue that the best indicator of what the views of the community are on this issue, is the laws enacted by the state legislaturtes elected by those communities.
setting an exact age of consent is ludicrous and sounds like an attempt to appease religious fanatics.
You know this come down from the common law and is as old as it gets. If you want to consider every moral judgment "appeasement to religious fanatics" then there isn't much I can do to change that. I, however, find no reason why people, through the legislatures, cant make moral judgments. In fact, I think we need to make more of them these days.
you havent answered the question that i posed in my last post. its completely relevant to this discussion. if 16 year olds aren't mature enough to consent, what else shouldn't they (legally) have the right to do? we know they can drive, drop out of school, and years ago, enter the army, right? so lets talk about the things they shouldnt be able to do. other than give consent to having sex.
I did, In all but one state, children under 18 can not marry without consent, under certain ages they can not obtain an abortion without consent (unless, of course you go to planned parenthood, where they will encourage you to lie about your age), you cant make a valid contract, vote, is that enough?
maru
1,450 Posts
Comments
No if they had sex he would have been fine, but because it was a blowjob it was classified as a felony.
Herm
On second thought, I believe this song is not about this particular case but rather a very similar situation:
Murs & Dangermouse "To A Black Boy"
Herm
There may be a "happy ending" after all ... but seriously,
what the fuck is wrong with that DA? After all this he plans to
appeal and try to keep dude in jail? Some of these District Attorneys
are like rabid dogs when they get a chance to put someone away,
and God forbid anybody question their intentions ...
I'm glad he's out of the clink, but the sentence is still bullshit. He never should have been arrested in the first place. He'll be lucky to find a job with that charge on his record.
Most of these statutes make allowances for the relative ages of the individuals involved. What is really a joke is the Model Penal Law suggesting that the age of the victim be set at 12[/b] to qualify as statutory rape. When I read that the first time, it made me want to vomit.
But I agree this case is pretty sad, when you consider the promise this kid showed and the fact that his life is still ruined. But if he was 21 and the girl was 15 than I think he belongs in jail.
I hated criminal law, because all the cases you read are generally sad, tragic wastes regardless of what side you are on.
He was 17.
I know. I was commenting on the general aspect of statutory rape laws, I think that they usually require that the victim be under a certain age and that the defendant be five years older than the victim.
The whole concept of statutory rape is idiotic if you don't look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. Setting an arbitrary age on consent is not my idea of a fair law. There are 18 year olds who have the maturity level of 12 year olds and vice versa. Also, at 16, in many states, not only can you drive a car, but you can decide to drop out of high school. Yet at 16, you aren't mature enough to decide whether you want to have consensual sex with another person? GTFOHWTBS.
and if things get messy, just suck that little fetus brain out and harvest its stem cells.
a win win all around.
Please write back when you have a 16 year old daughter.
Implying that having a 16-year-old daughter makes you an ignorant right-wing nutjob?
There's nothing to be gained by having statutory rape laws on the books. If you don't want your teenage daughter having sex, make sure she's educated and brought up with proper morals. Ultimately she's the one with the decision making power, not you.
Dear Idiot,
The whole point is that a 16 year old is unable to make such a decision.
Very truly yours,
Saba.
But a 17-year-old boy is? Most boys at 17 have less maturity than a 14-year-old girl.
If your retarded 16-year-old can't make decisions for herself then take away her license and strap a helmet on her misshapen head. GTFOOHWTBS.
there are plenty of teenage mothers...i'm sure quite a few who have 2 and 3 kids by the time they are 16. if 16 year old girls are so immature that they are incable of giving consent to sex with men who are a few years older....are they mature enough to have the legal right to raise their own children? if not, and by your logic, shouldn't we have laws outlawing the right of women under the age of 18/17 to willfully get pregant...or raise their own kids?
1. Again, most of the laws require that the defendant be a certain number of years older than the victim to avoid the High School Senior who has sex with his Freshman girlfriend. In the US all but one state requires that a couple be 18 to marry without parental consent.
2. I think there is a probably a strong public policy argument for not putting girls who have been the victim of statutory rape into jail, or taking away their children.
3. The point that you seem to be missing, is that under the legal age of consent there is no "willfully."
How many of those 16 year old mothers do you think would do it differently if given the chance.
My youngest daughter is 18 and quite a few of her friends had kids at 15 & 16.
I'm here to tell you very few of them were "mature" enough to take on the responsibility of being a mother and their children and our society will suffer as a result.
!!!!
no dude, the point you are missing "is that under the legal age of consent there is no willfully". my point is that setting an arbitrary age of consent is...arbitrary. every statutory rape prosecution should be on a case-by-case basis. what was the accused's subjective pov about the girl's age and her ability to consent? what is the objective view of the community regarding the same circumstances?
setting an exact age of consent is ludicrous and sounds like an attempt to appease religious fanatics. you havent answered the question that i posed in my last post. its completely relevant to this discussion. if 16 year olds aren't mature enough to consent, what else shouldn't they (legally) have the right to do? we know they can drive, drop out of school, and years ago, enter the army, right? so lets talk about the things they shouldnt be able to do. other than give consent to having sex.
Last night I registered a mom with a newborn. When I asked her birthdate, she replied " XX/XX/1993[/b]". 13. Coming into an ER by herself with a month old baby at 12:45 Monday AM. This girl no longer looked like a child (that often comes along with bearing children), but I can assure you all that she had no clue as to how to bring that child up. The doctor told me mom was completely uninterested in anything she said, that she was paying no attention to the child either. It was just sad. Sadder still was the fact that no one responsible for HER was interested enough to accompany her to the ER. That is something I rarely see. Usually babies with babies have at least their own mothers to rely on, and I have even seen some young men step up to the plate and do what's right, but I would put that at about a 15% if I was being generous.
I am not trying to get in the middle of this argument, but I have to say, there needs to be some regulation on the books that makes people think twice about taking advantage of a girl's inexperience and youth. Throwing out the age of consent concept entirely is ridiculous.
Since you are the one who wants to change the law, maybe you should tell us why you think it should be on a case by case basis. The reason its not, as you well know, is that it is a crime of strict liability.
The reason why the law is not concerned with the subjective intent of the defendant is because, the law frowns on out-of-wedlock sex for the obvious social costs, and therefore, if you are going to take the risk than you damnb better be sure.
I would argue that the best indicator of what the views of the community are on this issue, is the laws enacted by the state legislaturtes elected by those communities.
You know this come down from the common law and is as old as it gets. If you want to consider every moral judgment "appeasement to religious fanatics" then there isn't much I can do to change that. I, however, find no reason why people, through the legislatures, cant make moral judgments. In fact, I think we need to make more of them these days.
I did, In all but one state, children under 18 can not marry without consent, under certain ages they can not obtain an abortion without consent (unless, of course you go to planned parenthood, where they will encourage you to lie about your age), you cant make a valid contract, vote, is that enough?
This question is irrelevant to the topic at hand. How many of those mothers would want their respective children's fathers in jail for consensual sex?
I agree with KVH, imposing an exact age of consent is absolutely ludicrous.