15. Drive to the suburbs to buy spray paint - from another subub
You can't buy spray paint in Chicago, everyone has to go to the burbs!
uh oh.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The question is - is there enough of a shared identity between those who adopt a "gangsta" pose/p.o.v. that would constitute a community of people? (Of course, community is hard to define as well).
Personally, I don't think this works in the case of gangsta. That seems to be more of an individual pose but not one that has enough power to bridge disparate individuals together into a form of collective identity.
15. Drive to the suburbs to buy spray paint - from another subub
You can't buy spray paint in Chicago, everyone has to go to the burbs!
That is what I am type about, butcept the type I am typing about doesn't even live in Chicago at all.
They are all in Naperville all like 'hey let's drive to Downer's Grove to where they got the real fly paint yo I heard that is where NAD-ONE gets his cans'.
From there we pick up Streets Of Woodfield and go to Starbizzle where we can get a Fresh Frapp.
Hip-hop in all its various meanings is an important part of postmodern culture. It also illustrates how silly labels are at this point. Which are, more often than not, tossed around by disconnected baby boomers desperately attempting not to look over.
Additionally, I've often identified myself as part of the hip-hop generation and cringed. But the fact is, during my adolescence and early adulthood, I watched hip-hop take over the world.
The question is - is there enough of a shared identity between those who adopt a "gangsta" pose/p.o.v. that would constitute a community of people? (Of course, community is hard to define as well).
Personally, I don't think this works in the case of gangsta. That seems to be more of an individual pose but not one that has enough power to bridge disparate individuals together into a form of collective identity.
Please to correct then. I'm not issuing a challenge, merely seeking illumination.
a way of bonding disparate populations to one another, however shallow or ephemeral that bonding - even if it doesn't meet the criteria as a full-fledged culture in its own right.
this is on point, with a heavy emphasis on the shallow and ephemeral part.
I mean seriously self-identifying your culture isn't very common (i.e. "I am _____"). Whether you're talking about a "real culture" (whatever the fuck that means) or not.
sometimes I feel like hip-hop is more of a divider than a uniter.
like I'd rather chop it up with some punk head or alt rock fan and hear what he/she thinks is tight within those genres than to talk for 30 seconds with an alleged "hip-hop" head whose musical tastes I abhor. I prolly have more in common with an old school soul or R&B fan than I do with a Puff Daddy or 50 Cent fan.
I wholeheartedly agree with dCastillo on this. Whether or not hip-hop is a culture, however, depends entirely on the definition of "culture" being employed. I say sure, hip-hop is a culture if you offer up a simple definition.
If you define "culture" as the behaviors of a particular social/age group, then I think you can legitimately say that any form of music has a distinct culture that surrounds it.
That said, if hip-hop was ever a legitimate subculture or culture, it's almost entirely besides the point. Hip-Hop music, the cradle and inspiration for this culture, has been poisoned by materialism, thereby undermining any culture legitimacy that it may or may not have had.
The raw messages of hip-hop are what gave this music its culture legitimacy. The beats and rhymes containted therein inspired interest and unification around this style of expression. Unfortunately, the continuing corporatization of hip-hop has transformed those original raw, sincere messages into artificial and not-too-subtle commercial endorsements, rendering the supposedly raw messages complete and utter falsehoods. Hip-Hop, in embrazing the value of "making it", ended up being pimped by some of its participants.
I fucking despise the clothes line associated with "hip-hop" culture: LRG, seanjohn, etc., etc... because although hip-hop, to me, was about "making it big" and "coming from nowhere" and partying all at the same time, I don't see how these HUGE coprorations are doing anything except encouraging young people to participate in the culture of materialism rather than the culture of hip-hop.
also, I personally think it sounds retarded to say "I'm hip-hop" and is confusing the semantics of what one says when identifying themselves racially versus culturally identifying themselves. That does not mean the two are mutually exclusive because culture can absolutely be derived from racial identification, i.e. Black Culture, but nobody I know says "I'm Black Culture", rather, they often say "I'm Black."
Saying "I'm hip-hop" is a manifestation of corporate pimping of this inherently legitmate good form of music that inspires common interest and expression in particular populations.
That said, if hip-hop was ever a legitimate subculture or culture, it's almost entirely besides the point. Hip-Hop music, the cradle and inspiration for this culture, has been poisoned by materialism, thereby undermining any culture legitimacy that it may or may not have had.
Yeah but what you're saying here hardly is unique or specific to hip-hop.
Consider: the very global appeal of hip-hop is inherently based on materialism insofar as no one outside of New York would have heard about hip-hop if not for the fact that it went from a cultural form performed in clubs to RECORDED by the music industry. Especially given how completely manufactured a song like "Rappers Delight" was, you'd have to say that hip-hop, since its expansion outside of the South Bronx, was in bed with corporate interests since day one.
After all, where does the term "POPULAR" in "popular culture" comes from? THe idea of popular culture requires some level of complicity with industrial forces capable of mass producing and distributing cultural forms to begin with.
Basically: I'm not buying your argument here since it practically argues that the only "legitimate" culture is something that's pre-modern.
After all, where does the term "POPULAR" in "popular culture" comes from? THe idea of popular culture requires some level of complicity with industrial forces capable of mass producing and distributing cultural forms to begin with.
An excellent and oft-overlooked point.
See also: "Pop Music" is short for "Popular Music" for next week's "Is rap pop music?" discussion.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The question is - is there enough of a shared identity between those who adopt a "gangsta" pose/p.o.v. that would constitute a community of people? (Of course, community is hard to define as well).
Personally, I don't think this works in the case of gangsta. That seems to be more of an individual pose but not one that has enough power to bridge disparate individuals together into a form of collective identity.
Please to correct then. I'm not issuing a challenge, merely seeking illumination.
Perhaps game does truly, recognize game.
I don't know what to say other than peep the landscape.
I thought implicit in Deej's quesiton re: "gangsta" was the idea that the latter is a pose rather than a self-identification. I guess it can be both but in contrast, I think people who see hip-hop as a culture are able to cross-identify with one another, despite differences in class, race, geography, etc. in a way that, say, 13 year old myspace thugs from New Jersey wouldn't be able to do with some MS-13 member living in South L.A.
The question is - is there enough of a shared identity between those who adopt a "gangsta" pose/p.o.v. that would constitute a community of people? (Of course, community is hard to define as well).
Personally, I don't think this works in the case of gangsta. That seems to be more of an individual pose but not one that has enough power to bridge disparate individuals together into a form of collective identity.
Please to correct then. I'm not issuing a challenge, merely seeking illumination.
Perhaps game does truly, recognize game.
I don't know what to say other than peep the landscape.
Comments
uh oh.
Yeah. Well, actually, I vote subculture, but that still designates it as a unique culture unto itself.
That is what I am type about, butcept the type I am typing about
doesn't even live in Chicago at all.
They are all in Naperville all like 'hey let's drive to Downer's Grove
to where they got the real fly paint yo I heard that is where NAD-ONE
gets his cans'.
From there we pick up Streets Of Woodfield and go to Starbizzle where
we can get a Fresh Frapp.
please be serious.
Additionally, I've often identified myself as part of the hip-hop generation and cringed. But the fact is, during my adolescence and early adulthood, I watched hip-hop take over the world.
Is R&B a (sub)culture?
Is blues a (sub)culture?
Is rock & roll a (sub)culture?
Is country a (sub)culture?
And to that end, why is acceptable (to some) for one to say, "I'm hip-hop" when it sounds patently ridiculous to say "I'm jazz" or "I???m reggae"?
Please to correct then. I'm not issuing a challenge, merely seeking illumination.
Perhaps game does truly, recognize game.
this is on point, with a heavy emphasis on the shallow and ephemeral part.
I think all of those terms are silly--even in the simplistic context of charts or where shit gets filed in a music store. But that's just me.
You can here ten different people say hip hop culture and it will mean different things (i.e. this htread). Plus...
For some it might be a reference to black culture aka urban.
For some it means the "4 elements".
For some it means rap and athletic gear.
For some it means the DJ replacing the guitarist.
To me, defining hip-hop culture is very difficult, but I still think it exists.
like I'd rather chop it up with some punk head or alt rock fan and hear what he/she thinks is tight within those genres than to talk for 30 seconds with an alleged "hip-hop" head whose musical tastes I abhor. I prolly have more in common with an old school soul or R&B fan than I do with a Puff Daddy or 50 Cent fan.
I am Lupe Fiasco.
I wholeheartedly agree with dCastillo on this. Whether or not hip-hop is a culture, however, depends entirely on the definition of "culture" being employed. I say sure, hip-hop is a culture if you offer up a simple definition.
If you define "culture" as the behaviors of a particular social/age group, then I think you can legitimately say that any form of music has a distinct culture that surrounds it.
That said, if hip-hop was ever a legitimate subculture or culture, it's almost entirely besides the point. Hip-Hop music, the cradle and inspiration for this culture, has been poisoned by materialism, thereby undermining any culture legitimacy that it may or may not have had.
The raw messages of hip-hop are what gave this music its culture legitimacy. The beats and rhymes containted therein inspired interest and unification around this style of expression. Unfortunately, the continuing corporatization of hip-hop has transformed those original raw, sincere messages into artificial and not-too-subtle commercial endorsements, rendering the supposedly raw messages complete and utter falsehoods. Hip-Hop, in embrazing the value of "making it", ended up being pimped by some of its participants.
I fucking despise the clothes line associated with "hip-hop" culture: LRG, seanjohn, etc., etc... because although hip-hop, to me, was about "making it big" and "coming from nowhere" and partying all at the same time, I don't see how these HUGE coprorations are doing anything except encouraging young people to participate in the culture of materialism rather than the culture of hip-hop.
That's just where I stand on this shit...hollur.
You mean, Ro$$Hogg's og question?
Or are you mixing up modal jazz and hip-hop cultures? Dumbass they have NOTHING to do with one another.
I am Justin Timberlake and I have herpes.
Saying "I'm hip-hop" is a manifestation of corporate pimping of this inherently legitmate good form of music that inspires common interest and expression in particular populations.
Yeah but what you're saying here hardly is unique or specific to hip-hop.
Consider: the very global appeal of hip-hop is inherently based on materialism insofar as no one outside of New York would have heard about hip-hop if not for the fact that it went from a cultural form performed in clubs to RECORDED by the music industry. Especially given how completely manufactured a song like "Rappers Delight" was, you'd have to say that hip-hop, since its expansion outside of the South Bronx, was in bed with corporate interests since day one.
After all, where does the term "POPULAR" in "popular culture" comes from? THe idea of popular culture requires some level of complicity with industrial forces capable of mass producing and distributing cultural forms to begin with.
Basically: I'm not buying your argument here since it practically argues that the only "legitimate" culture is something that's pre-modern.
Well, I am the Mike Jordan of recording.
You might wanna fall back from recording.
And do what? Hang out with Dale and Danika instead?
An excellent and oft-overlooked point.
See also: "Pop Music" is short for "Popular Music" for next week's "Is rap pop music?" discussion.
I don't know what to say other than peep the landscape.
I AM Modal Jazz Culture
I represent all 8 or so elementz. Working on my Ecstatic Yodeling game.
I would love to hang out with Danika.
I'm Keith Hernandez