Is hip-hop a "culture"?
hogginthefogg
6,098 Posts
It's been a while since we've opened this particular can of worms. I vote no.It's a musical genre, period. You can argue that the four elements make it a culture, but I call bullshit on that, too. Reggae has DJs, MCs, specific dances, and--if you count L.A. Lewis--grafitti (joking). But no one says, "I'm reggae! Dancehall is something you do, reggae is something you live." The same argument could be made for country music. And it would also be ridiculous. And don't try to tell me that "urban black culture" is hip-hop culture. That's narrow-minded and--here you go--racist. I know plenty of black people who live in cities who hate hip-hop. Please add on until page 10 is reached.
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I don't know if music itself can be a culture, but it's a facet of culture. I can't picture some one saying "I'm reggae", but its a part of Caribbean culture. Country music is a facet of american culture.
I know a lot of Jamaicans who don't like most reggae.
Well, I definitely don't think that, but there is/are such a thing as Black youth culture(s), of which rap music can be an element (arrgggh!) that may or may not be embraced by individual members.
Really the "Hip-Hop is a culture" and "Urban Black culture is hip-hop" arguments are two sides of the same reductionist coin, the former advanced by people that don't know what the word "culture" means, and the latter by individuals whose interaction with Black people is limited to the TV screen.
especially this "four elements" argument is
However, there is all this special clothing, behaviour aso, which somehow adds a "cultural" element.
I agree with you there, but we both know that the major proponents of the "Hip-Hop Is A Culture" argument are not talmbout "rap music." They're talking about the Four Elements, and it seems they're trying to wield them as a tool with which they'll pry their way into Black Culture. They go about this by trying to state that something like b-boying is what's real, while leaning/rocking with it is not real.
"That's rap!"
Exactly. When the idea emerged in the early nineties, I think it resonated so strongly with white kids because it offered them a back door to authenticity.
The friend said: "oh, they are prog fans."
Would now be a good time to discuss how much back door you've been offered?
(Page Me)
HAZ is right. It's a facet of culture (for people at a certain age. mostly teenagers - 40 year-olds.)
There are many other things like Hip Hop. Punk, Goth, Rock'n'Roll, Rockabilly, etc. Hip Hop is just more popular.
"Hey, Shaaaaawty...."
today you can be into just one "element" without having any intrest or support any of the others. a lot of writers i know have little or no intrest in any of the other so called "elements"....
Great question...one that gets debated endlessly (as I'm sure we'll do here).
Part of the difficulty in answering it with a strict "yes" or "no" has to do with even defining what "culture" means to begin with. This isn't just a dictionary thing - even in academic disciplines that ostensibly are meant to deal with "culture," there's not always agreement over what the term is supposed to mean.
Is it material or symbolic?
Does it require institutions or simply beliefs?
Is it enough that culture = "a state of mind" or do you need more encoded social norms such as ingrained practices, "laws" (or some equivalent), etc.?
Personally, I'm rather ambivalent. I think one could easily make the argument that hip-hop both IS and IS NOT a culture even if you can agree on the basic criteria.
What I'm more interested in is understand what the application of hip-hop as or as not culture means. So, if it is a culture...ok, so what? What do we - as a society - do with that? What new ideas or social realities would be created?
Likewise, if hip-hop is not considered a culture, then what would be the point in establishing that? What follows from that social perception?
All this said, one thing that I do think is relevant is that regardless if you can convince people that hip-hop is or isn't a culture, I think there are millions of youth around the world who can identify with one another - even on the thinnest of threads - on the basis of a shared interest in the music. By that alone, I think one can say that hip-hop exerts a very powerful cultural force - as a way of bonding disparate populations to one another, however shallow or ephemeral that bonding - even if it doesn't meet the criteria as a full-fledged culture in its own right.
This raises the question: has any musical genre legitimately given rise to its own culture?
Punk and goth have both earned the title of "subcultures" by many participants and analysts...if that's the case, why wouldn't hip-hop also achieve the same status?
Pronunciation: 's&b-"k&l-ch&r
Function: noun
1 a : a culture (as of bacteria) derived from another culture b : an act or instance of producing a subculture
2 : an ethnic, regional, economic, or social group exhibiting characteristic patterns of behavior sufficient to distinguish it from others within an embracing culture or society [/b]
- sub??cul??tur??al /-'k&lch-r&l, -'k&l-ch&-/ adjective
- sub??cul??tur??al??ly adverb
- subculture transitive verb
I vote subculture[/b]
i'm a chinese who grew up kin happy valley (not bronx) and my frist hiph-hop album was the priority records "rap-g-style" comp...
am i hiphop?
i'm a bit drunk tonite so prease excuse the typos..
peace out yo1
k
Hip hop is only a culture so Sprite can make $$$$
Jazz in the broad sense exerted HUGE influence on a number of literary and artistic and musical movements, involving people from different nations, diverse ethnic and economic groups and created/appropriated it's own language used by musicians and non-musician adherents alike. So Hip Hop's social and cultural acomplishments, while impressive and perhaps more pervasive, are not altogether new under the sun, IMO.
There is gang culture thouogh I don't think that's what you mean by using the deliberate term "gangsta".
The question is - is there enough of a shared identity between those who adopt a "gangsta" pose/p.o.v. that would constitute a community of people? (Of course, community is hard to define as well).
Personally, I don't think this works in the case of gangsta. That seems to be more of an individual pose but not one that has enough power to bridge disparate individuals together into a form of collective identity.
Btw, subculture vs. culture = a debate around semantics. If hip-hop is a subculture then basically it means that it is a "culture" as well. It's just a difference in scale perhaps but the fundamental definitions apply to both terms.
Well, DUH!
I totally agree with you - I don't know if anyone was arguing that hip-hop was new in this regard though. I think the basic question is: does hip-hop meet the requirements to be labelled a culture?
And, along the same lines, did jazz for that matter?
O-Dub got what I was getting at w/ the gangsta question and i think he's right -'gangsta' seems like more of a general, not-too-accurate label outsiders tend to put on certain aspects of hip-hop culture. (see? I can't help it)
Soulstrut self-identifies as "Crate Digging And Hip-Hop Culture".
This is a problem because there are people typing here who:
1. Don't like rap music
2. Don't own any records
3. Don't dig
4. Don't know hip-hop handshakes/pounds
5. Don't have a security team
6. Wear skinny-leg jeans
7. Wear Dockers
8. Won't eat the catering
9. Never had a ghetto pass
10. Always follow "crate" with "and barrel"
11. Always follow "barrel" with "of monkeys"
12. Always follow "can" with "of worms"
13. Never owned an 8-ball Jacket
14. Only have one testicle
15. Drive to the suburbs to buy spray paint - from another subub
16. Are friendly to the soundguy
17. Have hearts that pump Kool-Aid
18. Carry beard-trimmers onto planes
19. Ask on message boards about new slang
20. Say "It ain't where you from"
21. Say "Chicken is chicken, but the wing is the thing!"
22. Say "It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken."
23. Frap fresher
"All signs point to yes."